Executive functioning. Gender separation helps because of the influence of the opposite gender. For boys it allows them to work on basic functioning skills that many lack in middle school that many girls already know. It lets boys learn to get organized without feeling stupid.

You hit on my initial concern. It might be a great program. I recently paid for not going with my gut feeling on something else and not heeding red flags. I suppose I'm more sensitive right now. I do think we've hit the age where voices other than my own would help.

- Bible study that is age appropriate, more reasoning - strong mentorship and support - gender separation, with emphasis on EF for boys especially - not intended to indoctrinate so much as educate using philosophy, history etc I feel like this ds has a great foundation, but is able to fool himself. I'd like for him to have a peer group available to discuss faith and philosophy. I'd like to find positive peer pressure.

In all fairness, what does it say about me that I'll admit if this were a free or cheap program I'd be willing to give it a try and pull out if it didn't work. I have puh-lenty of my own character issues to work on.

As does my Dh, but it's knowing when, matey. From what I can see you have fine qualities and character!

We start with different premises Albeto. It won't work. But I don't put you on ignore because I like your facility with language.

I've talked myself through it.😊 I should learn to trust my gut. This may be an awesome program, but if I'm looking so closely and not feeling great about it, it's a sign to say no.

I beleive that we act out of free agency. This kid, poor kid whose action is getting rather magnified under my overly analytical eyes, made poor choices. When my kids and I talked about it, we went through the kids we knew and imagined each of them making similar choices. Truth is, that I find LOTS, if not the majority (that will earn me some nice unlikes) like to think actions occur in isolation. They do not. Our choices, even mistakes, are part of the continuity of our pasts and lives and influences and characters. The kids we can imagine making such choices do not do so in isolation. It is indicative of character. That is not to ignore that it is all a process, we are all fallen and that grace is available to us all. But society has definitely gone the way of demonizing useful, logical and right discrimination (the making choices kind, not the -ist kind). My kids make mistakes too. I won't mention the program name. It is daily immersion, but not at all fundamental or like the Duggar stuff. It is a perfect fit on paper.

That was my 2nd kid. 😠It is my almost 13 yo that I'm concerned about. He's a great kid, but is impressionable. The 2nd has fabulous influences in his life through his passions, friends and connections. My oldest strikes me as at risk of getting lost.

😊 No worries. I know tone is wierd online. No mama bear since the kid and mine were buddies and mine couldn't care less. It's more that there are parts of the program that really, really appeal to me. I'm tempted to put one of my kids in, largely because he is currently agnostic and I'd like for him to have an environment of amazing teens that support the probing of faith and encourage growth. He's on the cusp of his teens. While wicked smart, he's still going to go through the confusing years. This program looks so good on paper. It is very expensive. And this interaction with someone actually in the program is all I have to go on. I want it to be amazing.

Or it's a one time attempt to impress a teen girl. Teens do stuff.

That's the real crux, is a program able to change or mold character? Will there be the same number of jerks (though I don't think the kid is a jerk for swearing)? I'm not inclined to judge the kid. I'm far more inclined to wonder about the environment that molded him according to the amazing write up.

Seriously Chris, nobody expects perfection. Not necessary. I'm curious as to how other view it and if You had the experience is that genuinely how you would walk away? Please tell me. You would hear it and think, ok nobody's perfect, it's probably a good program?

Heh, no. Mine is the 'knows enough not to cuss unnecessarily in front of a bunch of kids' younger one. And he actually said, "dude..." With raised eyebrows. The kids were playing cards, spit, as they had each day together. This kid lost a game to another kid. He said the f word in response to losing spit. It was in the hallway where the program is offerred, but we were there for a different event. My kid wasn't fazed at all by his retort, just said he was trying too hard to be what he thought was cool. The whole thing just struck me because the mom is head of the parent support part of the program. My Dh can swear with great flair and color, to my dismay, so it isn't about that being the sole measure of character. And I said that this is little to go on. But given the environment, occassion, response etc... can you blame me for not thinking all that highly of the program this kid has been in since he was in k?

No. I so totally disagree. People with good characters know when to curse and get annoyed.

How would you see this situation: There's an expensive church based character program. The point is to support and develop good character. Kids, tweens to mid teens, are playing cards in the hall when one of the teens in the program uses the f word. This teen has been in the program for years and has a family heavily involved. A younger kid not in the program tells him to watch his language, but teen retorts that the game is for 13 and up (implying that language is ok and kids should leave). Small issue, but how much of a red flag is it that this program is not so good for character development? If the program looks amazing on paper, would this be enough to make you walk away?

I'm sorry you had this experience. Ours was not at all like that. We found people to be friendly and helpful. Maybe having kids helped? Maybe it was where we went? Maybe it was Dh, who has a knack for putting people at ease?

Yes. I moved four kids from the country to the city (seattle area, in our case). We downsized to nearly 1/5th our prior living space. I am a nature loving introvert and ... I am LOVING it!!! Shopping is actually easier, except for bringing groceries up to the apt, however I have used the grocery delivery service when the kids were sick and would use it again for convenience. Costco has a cart that works well for towing grocery bags and kids. We took the four kids to Manhattan for a week earlier this year. I was surprised to find the metro easy to use and rather safe feeling. I would not take a car to NY. I also felt like the city was extremely kid friendly with activities everywhere. I didn't want to leave. On the other hand, you have more little ones. The stroller was necessary for the baby, but it was a hassle to take. My next oldest was old enough to get around on his own. You will need a hand on your 3 yo, right? I also had the help of my older kids. If I were in your shoes I would spend less on housing and have a nanny. This is probably more unique to our situation, but my kids had not made great friends in the half decade we lived in the countryside. They have already found kindred spirits in the city. I suspect it's a matter of numbers and having more people to interact with, but it has been extraordinary. Can you go for a week or two with all of the kids? Get a feel for what life might be like before making such a huge commitment?

I think that's a fine age. There are many ways to frame the discussion and it doesn't have to be awkward. It sounds like this project is a good opportunity to lead into a natural conversation.

Comcast customer service.👎

There's truth on both ends. After a decade at this I have learned some of what doesn't matter. More importantly, I have found that each kid has such different needs that what matters and what I stress about changes. I can't win! Here's to small victories! And gaining steam! And pats on the head (I'm old, but cute- that counts)!

Yes, yes, a thousand cheers for the KCLS! I'm learning a lot from this too! We're newly relocated to King Co. so I don't have much to offer.

My mathy kid was a bike riding, trampoline flipping bouncy boy (sensory seeking). But in the midst of his activities his mind was rummaging through relationships. He made change and played with money at 3, figured out multiplication at 4, had an origami phase (oy, the papers!!), by 5-6 was working his way through EPGY and life of Fred fractions on his own, that I now realize was an attempt to get somewhere more interesting. He would have loved delta camp!! I do think the camp works best for kids interested and passionate, not just good at math. I don't think the delta campers need to have a lot under their belt so much as possess the ability to grasp what they're exposed to and find it fun. I personally would not spend the money in an attempt to get a kid interested. It is a lot of math all day for two weeks with kids excited about doing just that.

No, but we take them out to eat or for special activities. If there are items we want, we buy them. Likewise, we have guests that buy groceries or bring favorite foods. I would feel awkward giving or receiving money.

My ds(7) is obviously dyslexic. We have gone over months and the year calendar repeatedly. He made a monthly calender every month for the last year. He still cannot tell me the order of the months or which are in which season. I do not think it's normal, but perhaps not uncommon for dyslexics?