I don't have any wisdom to pass on, but big hugs to you and your dc in this difficult patch in the road.

Have any of your kids bought components to build a desktop or laptop? The most I've ever done is open a tower to replace hard drives, fans or add memory. Is this something we can realistically do and which resources should we turn to?

Is there another way could ds get the mock trial experience that happens in Challenge B? Formal logic and debate are the two things ds is wildly excited about for next year. For those of you who supplemented, what did you add? With Challenge A over for the year, ds has scheduled himself for the summer to complete an online class from Professor Carol on Imperial Russia, two Life of Fred Pre-Algebra books, an online creative writing course, some projects from a DVD homeschool art program along with Cat and Dog theology. I hope we (or I) can fit in some self-paced Omnibus since I already paid for it and I think the year subscription will be up in August. I am pretty certain ds would not have made up this plan on his own if it were not for his experience in Challenge A this year. He really stepped up to the independence factor of Challenge A and I don't think we could have that without the weekly group experience. I am concerned, however, to hear thoughts that the program is not full enough for some families. That's why I ask what you would add to meet your goals for your kids.

It seems I heard the CC tutors need to have a student enrolled at the campus during the year they are teaching. That would eliminate moms who have graduated their kids but who want to continue in a role like tutor.

Ds is in 7th grade this year and we have done some years of learning on our own at home with no group interaction, some years in co-op and this year in a deliberate community where kids come together one day a week to discuss and debate their work from the prior week. We have not done any live online classes. So what are your opinions about the need for students to "dialogue" about material? I think of Abraham Lincoln who supposedly self-educated in isolation only to go on to become one of the most famous orators in history. Is it important in upper levels to come together and share and debate? I'm making plans for next year and am inclined for us to go solo because the two group opportunities available to us are not what I'm looking for. Would live online classes provide interaction among students?

We are another family on the fence with Challenge B. DS is finishing Challenge A which he loved, but next year's prospective tutor has only 4 weeks of experience in CC and she has openly stated she will be learning alongside her dd as she tutors. I am really ready to walk away if our campus director considers that to be acceptable. I don't want to hijack the thread, but would online classes allow for enough interaction to replace that aspect of CC?

This is the weakness of the CC tutor system. So much depends on a good tutor and because precious few of us were raised with a classical background, it's hard to find a mom prepared to excel in that role. Plus the tuition is nothing to sneeze at. We were fortunate in our first encounter with CC to have a very talented woman with a terrific sense of humor and energy as our Challenge A tutor. She will be a tough act to follow for the Challenge B tutor next year who is new to our program. If I were running our campus, I would make it a requirement to sit in on the entire Challenge A year as a prerequisite to teach Challenge B, but then it's hard to find willing tutors in our area. That said, it's hard for a mom whose kids don't respect her authority to exercise it effectively on a 7th grade group. Our son would be exasperated with her son's behavior and would be impatient with that kind of distraction. That's a shame for your campus. Maybe find another campus in your area?

My quick, choppy thoughts: Our 12 year old ds is finishing Challenge A, his first CC experience. Brand new tutor, brand new Challenge program at our campus. Our son is introverted but he has thrived with the discussion format of Challenge A. The ratio in his group was 2 girls to 4 boys and the kids were all very kind and supportive of each other. I would encourage your dd to go for it, and I imagine between now and Sept., there could be several girls signing up. I wouldn't make academic decisions just to wait for her friends and she will not want to do Challenge A a second time. She sounds like she knows what she wants and I would support her in that. Sometimes we are the only "girls" and that's okay. I work with my husband in the male-dominated manufacturing industry and I appreciate the direct and to-the-point communication style most of them use. She will learn a lot, and if she's academically ready for it, more power to her!

I just started down this path yesterday because I feel like every joint in my body just isn't working right. When you said you thought you had fibromialgia, what were your symptoms?

That's why I wondered if it might be a good approach for them. And the external teacher to be accountable to.

I have sandals from this company that have helped my PF, but their closed shoes run small and they don't make wide sizes, so be cautious if you have anything but a medium foot. http://www.orthaheelusa.com/women.html

Hi Bonnie, have you ever considered signing your 12 yr dd up for one of Julie Bogart's (BraveWriter) online classes? Here is the class she recommends as a starting point: http://www.bravewriter.com/program/online-classes/class-list/kidswrite-basic/ Rhonda

We are new to CC this year and are finding the Challenge A program (next step after Foundations) to be the best choice I could have made for ds's 7th grade. We had the options of doing this solo with me organizing his year as usual, or the option of participating in a co-op for some core classes, or a full blown classical tutoring program where the kids spend 2 full days a week and complete the remaining work at home. We are blessed in this area northern suburbs of Pittsburgh to have lots of choices for our kids. We also have a relatively new but thriving CC community in our area and after only 4 years, the Essentials and Foundations programs are filled to capacity. I was never really tempted to sign ds up for Foundations because I was not able to stay to be a helper, and I preferred to pull our own curricula together and wasn't big on what I perceived as lots of memorization. Besides that, we already had plenty of fellow homeschool families that we are friends with so developing new friendships wasn't a factor at that time either. The Challenge A program is a new endeavor this year for the community, and after I read about it this summer, I decided this might be a good fit for our 12yr ds entering 7th grade. One of the most important factors in my decision was that they made it clear I was still the one controlling our homeschool and in fact we could opt out of any of the materials or sections. The classical model was important, and Christian content interwoven through the curriculum was important. Another big plus was their recent implementation of the Lost Tools of Writing program which I planned on using for ds this year anyway and I welcome any help I can get in working with it. Instead of continuing speech and debate club, I was satisfied that the weekly presentations the Challenge A students give to each other on various research topics would give ds enough ongoing public speaking practice. Finally, when I met the newly hired tutor this summer while she was going through her training, I was so impressed by her enthusiasm and capabilities that it became a very easy decision. Now, 4 weeks into the program, I can say Challenge A has been a lifesaver. I am a chronic "the grass is always greener" mom with curricula and this program takes care of that. I see no need to change anything that we are doing which is a complete relief. It is rigorous and indeed challenging but very interesting. It is giving ds a wonderful structure from which to build independence and responsibility. He sees results and is very pleased with his expanding knowledge base. I had no idea if what we had covered in his earlier education had prepared him for this level of work, but he jumped right in and sees that he is faring well academically in relation to his peers which is building his confidence. The 6 kids in the group are learning to relate to each other by exchanging ideas because the format is not just teacher talking to students. It's a tutor facilitating conversations and helping them integrate ideas for themselves. Just to clarify, our ds is a typical, silly, childlike 12 year old who would rather play Minecraft or jump on the trampoline than do math. And I am the busy working mom in our family machine shop who gets called away from school to handle work issues all the live-long day. But.....the accountability of the weekly seminar is keeping us completely on track which is exactly what we needed. Ds and I are both feeling really good about this year. It's taken a big weight off my shoulders because I know exactly what ds will be working on every day and I don't have the guilt that I have had in the past about not providing enough structure to his day because of our business. I know this glowing review sounds like I'm affiliated with CC. I am not, nor can I speak to the Essentials and Foundations programs because I really don't know much about them. I hope this helps.

Okay...so our small family business S-Corp federal form 1120S is due Monday. I messed up my QuickBooks accounts and do not see how I can get my info to our accountant by tomorrow. I desperately need feedback from any accountants out there tonight. Two accountant friends tell me the late filing penalty, per the 2012 IRS bulletin, is $195/ month of late filing. My accountant insists it is $1,000/shareholder. I am only talking a week or two to straighten out my errors in QB. I am ready to pass out from working on this stuff for three days and my accountant will not answer my emails asking for clarification on this penalty he is referring to. Help! Thanks.

We tried Saxon for part of 1st and 3rd grades and it was like enduring a long, slow toothache :glare: . When we tried again for Saxon 5/4, it was a whole different ball game. We used Singapore for first through third grades.

Critterfixer, why don't you use MEP with your dc?

Quote from above: And if I may add to this, it is also about not limiting a child's options in the future. Maybe they will want to be a mathematician or a scientist. It isn't about *me* making them into a mathematician, it is about me making sure that they don't run into closed doors at some point. I love this. But therein lies the challenge of home education. How do I provide the right math education when I myself don't remember most of what I learned in math b/c I went into political science in college. This year, for 6th grade, I experimented with farming math out with Chalkdust and Thinkwell. That doesn't work well here. Sure I know my son better than any teacher could, and I want to surpass what would be provided in PS, of course! I can teach critical thinking, literature, LA, philosophy, etc. with strength and confidence. Maybe I have no business handling math for my son, so I must turn to the curriculum that holds my hand. I see Saxon can lead ds pretty well with oversight by me. Singapore's IP was just too much for me but again....I like the content and from what I can see, it adds a dimension to the traditional nature of Saxon. I might take a look at Math in Focus as was suggested but I don't think it goes higher than elementary math. If Singapore had a virtual classroom that might fit the bill for what I'm looking for. Dh's degree is in engineering but he had a very traditional drill and kill education himself. And then, like Hunter says, the best curriculum is the one that gets done. I know we can't switch much more now going into 7th grade and I want to solidify what we're doing. I don't want to be the cause of future math problems.

Critterfixer, if you use MEP for your own study, why not for your dc?

NASDAQ, that's the first time I've heard of the Baldridge and Parker books. Thanks for the suggestions.

Farrar "I found that some kids did need to do the recipe first and get the algorithm down." Can I get an mathematical example of this? (I've read Liping Ma but I'm not sure what you mean, Farrar, on this.)

Hunter, what is a cookbook approach?

If an adult is newly diagnosed with ADD, does that mean one or more of the kids will likely be diagnosed afterward? If you are ADD, were any of your kids diagnosed after you?

Maybe this has been discussed before. Those who use Saxon math sometimes lament on these boards the fact that their dc have learned the mechanics of math but lack the understanding of the why. Can't someone develop a supplement to Saxon to conceptually explain those why's? I am trying once again to implement Singapore but Saxon is so darn simple to use for those of us who need open and go math. Ds is 6th grade.

After reading these CC threads, I am now considering Challenge A for rising 7th grader who will turn 12 yrs next month. We could benefit from the structure and accountability of CC from what has been described here while leaving me in control which I like. Our local community has a successful Foundations and Essentials program and they are now expanding to Challenge A and up. The Challenge A tutor was just hired and is starting her training. As a newbie, would the seasoned folks recommend that we read Leigh Bortin's book(s) first, or is the tutor's influence really where the "rubber meets the road" and more indicative of what we should expect? Do the tutor training materials set clear expectations for their role? Any tutors care to comment? We had been participating in a speech and debate club for the last couple years and I think Challenge A will address public speaking enough for us, which I like. Any feedback on this? I have already purchased the new Omnibus I self-paced program for next year and I am wondering if I will be able to fit it in as our history and still use the CC literature. Any feedback on the literature portion of CCA? I would have the option of using the secondary reading selections of Omni I to cover lit but would this limit ds's participation in the discussions of the books being read for CCA?

Ruth, Is the book "The Way Things Work" that you refer to by Macaulay? What about How Things Work by Bloomfield?