I've been a member of this community for many years, but have been "away" for awhile. Previously, I posted fairly frequently, especially on the high school board. I want to post to the "For Sale" board, but it won't let me. :confused1: I tried contacting the webmaster but have gotten no reply. Can anyone advise? Many thanks!

Been away from the boards for awhile, and with little time to search, was just wondering about Teaching Textbooks Pre-Calc. Anyone used it? Wondering if it would work for my student, who is good at math but not terribly fond of it. He just finished Saxon Algebra II, but doesn't want any more Saxon. Would love to hear from users, both positive and negative impressions of the program. Thanks!

Yes, you CAN get merit aid with no AP. My oldest three had pretty good merit scholarships, the first child was a National Merit winner. Test scores DO matter (unfortunately, for children who don't test extremely well). The kids are paying back their own loans. With refinancing post-college, you can get lower rates than you start with. Still, I don't like the kids taking out loans for college, and would be thrilled with a full-ride scholarship from any school. Maybe those are more likely with AP behind the student . . . ? In any case, thank you all for posting. It helps to hear from other in similar situations.

You are right about that! The "center" used to be considered somehow less than college caliber, but no longer. Some of the advantages of this route are smaller, more personal classes, the same academic standards (or higher) as the 4-yr. state Universities. They have to be, in order to be sufficient for the many students who transfer from the 2-year to 4-year campuses. She won't have any problem transferring to a private Christian college. But make sure you check if that college will accept all her credits. The private schools my 3 oldest went to took all the credits they earned from the UW center as high school students, but some have certain criteria with regard to just how many and which ones are transferrable.

You have to have your course approved before taking the test? You can't just teach whatever you want and then just sign up for the test? Not clear what you mean by "Getting a course approve".

I would like to get some input from moms whose homeschooled children want to go to college, but do not aspire to "top tier" colleges and universities. Especially those who choose to go the high school route WITHOUT AP exams. I've already learned about the advantages of prepping for and taking AP tests, but what about CLEP instead? Or, what about those who homeschool and maybe have their students take a college course (dual credit) or two during their high school home school? Or, homeschooling with a rigorous and challenging curriculum, being involved extracurricularly and with the community, and then applying to college? AND, what about those of us with good students (average/above average), but not necessarily "gifted" or "advanced" or "uber-intelligent" children? (Not poking fun here - I know there are some amazing, gifted homeschooled children here, but I would hope there are also some of us "ordinary" ones, too!) Even after graduating three children from homeschool high school, and two from a couple of very good private colleges, I still have insecurities as a mom about my last and final student. Not only is he a totally different kid from his brother and sisters, but it is 11 years from the time when I first started homeschooling high school with my oldest, and things have changed a great deal in those years!! So, I still need encouragement and advice! Thanks!

When I said my children did CC classes which transferred, I should have clarified. We do NOT have community colleges in our region. Our children took courses at the local branch of our state university. There was no doubt whatsoever that these were challenging college courses. The credits transferred, and, in addition, my children were all able to test out (for credit!) of the next level in several disciplines. Also, both my college graduates finished their degrees in 4 years, with no summer school. One child was a double major; the other majored and minored. While they may not have attended "top tier" colleges (neither wanted to - they sought a school that fit their goals and personalities), they did choose somewhat selective private colleges with high standards, and did exceptionally well. Not only that, but they were accepted at every school they applied to and basically had their pick! So I'm not concerned about the quality of their homeschool education. Homeschoolers have made broad strides in college admissions over the last 5-10 years, and many colleges actively seek them. Why I like the idea of college coursework (rather than AP) before college: your homeschooled student gets the feel of a REAL college classroom/lab before actually going off to college. I think that's so much better than the public high school environment, and certainly good experience for a homeschooled child aiming for college. I know many parents on this board are aiming for "top tier" schools, and want the advantage of AP credits, but that is neither my nor my son's ultimate goal. There are hundreds and hundreds of excellent colleges and universities in this country that AREN'T the "best" schools, but still provide a wonderful education, and graduate successful, employable people. I think there is a great deal of subconscious pressure put on parents of homeschooled children to compete with their public schooled peers, and AP classes have become so commonplace that we figure we have to go with the flow. I have certainly felt it. Then again, many of us believe AP classes/tests will give our kids advantages they may not otherwise have. That may be generally true. I may try AP tests with my son, depending on cost and when and where they are offered in my district. However, my goal is simply to earn him extra credits BEFORE college, should he choose to go. He has only just turned 15, so we have time to consider it. In any case, I appreciate all of your advice! Thanks for taking time from your busy days to respond!

Thanks for your words of counsel! I'm torn, because I truly believe that an education should be more than just about "getting a job." Yet that is a very important consideration! There is no doubt in my mind that my daughter is learning and being enriched by her college experience, and it was her choice to pursue her education there. It's just that I see so many kids these days graduating and then having nowhere to go, ending up with a bunch of loans to pay off and working a minimum wage job somewhere. They have the abilities to do more, but the work just isn't out there in this economy. I know my DD will never major in business or teaching, for example - that's not what she wants. I keep thinking science and/or technology is the direction to go, but she doesn't seem terribly interested in that at this point. She is an excellent musician, but seems to love music simply for its own sake, not with a desire to perform or teach it. Yet that is something she could eventually do, even without a music degree. Oh, well, in the end I suppose we have to let our "adult" children make their own choices! Wise words, ladies. I will definitely share your thoughts and articles with my daughter.

There is much talk of AP courses on this board, and it sounds like many people are having their students take them. My question is, is it possible to do AP level courses at home, and subsequently test? If so, how does one go about that? In our previous experience, none of my older children enrolled in public high school AP classes, but did take courses at our local CC, which then transferred credits to their colleges. Not only that, but the content of many of their homeschool courses, history and literature especially, were of the caliber of many college courses. I wonder why the emphasis on AP, and AP tests (other than the college credit they earn), rather than simply challenging course content. Do you feel students actually DO learn more from AP courses? Or are they simply geared to ensuring a high score on a test? I just don't feel like going to the trouble of signing my son up for AP at the public high school, when his course work at home is just as challenging. So how can that translate to a transcript, and/or an AP test score? Incidentally, in our school district, the majority of the students take AP courses. I don't know how they eventually test, but it is unusual to run across a high school kid who is NOT taking AP. Which leads me to question the validity of the courses, since not everybody can be "above average." Not trying to sound negative, but if you're going to home school, why opt for public school AP classes? Just wonderin' . . . :huh:

I'm logically challenged, but would you say "symbolic" logic is sort of math-oriented, while "linguistic" logic would be for more language/communication oriented people? Thanks for the help!

My son has done Fallacy Detective and Thinking Toolbox. I want to give him something to build on that. Oldest son did Introductory and Intermediate Logic and actually liked them. Two middle children (girls) could not get either Intro. or Tradit., so I just dropped them with the girls. Last child needs SOMEthing, I think, and since I own both the above-mentioned curricula, I thought I'd do one of those. But I have read of other, newer programs out there that might be a better fit. Can anyone advise? FWIW, this child is totally different than son #1. High energy, verbal, but not very logical. :confused: Please help! And if you have other ideas, please link me! Thanks so much in advance!

Good advice, Gwen. She is doing just that - she is in her 2nd year serving as a Christian camp counselor over the summer. Her last year of high school she team-taught martial arts to children ages 6-12. During the school year she will be a French tutor on campus. I'm getting the feeling she's leaning toward some kind of ministry/mission work. All of the things you mention she (and my other children) have done, but somehow things have not worked out the way they planned. We spent a great deal of time in high school discussing and working on career planning, goal-setting and practical living issues. Both older children utilized their professors (easier to do on a small, private college campus where classes are smaller and you really get to know your profs!) and career office. We will certainly encourage her to do the same. I guess I want to tell her frankly that she won't earn much of a living with a religion or languages major, unless she directs that toward a practical field of study as well. I sure appreciate the input, ladies - thanks!

Hi, DD will be a college sophomore at a private liberal arts college. She began with interests in animal science, languages, and religion, but hasn't chosen her major yet. DH and I want to encourage her, but after experience with our older children choosing a few not-too-practical majors (and having difficulty finding satisfying work), we want to try to help her focus on something that she will not only enjoy, but that will also enable her to earn a living. How do you encourage a young person without coming across as critical or interfering? How do you get them to think practically, and with an eye toward the future (especially in our current economy)? We basically left our older two to choose their own direction, offering wisdom only when it was asked for. But we are concerned that this child will follow a similar path and end up with no more than college debt and a minimum wage job. So what's a parent to do? How have others handled this? Thanks for your advice.

Thanks Lori! Your answer was just what I was looking for. Would you say the text is sufficient as a high school level "spine" book? We do a LOT of reading from other sources, so I'm really only in need of a basic spine. Thanks again for your thorough analysis! I will check out the samples today.

My son is considering some CLEP tests over the next couple years (he's 15 now). He LOVES history and that is one subject he would like to CLEP. Can anyone recommend something comprehensive and CLEP-appropriate to read and/or study from? Also, English and/or Writing. He'd like to avoid Freshman English at college, like my daughter did. Thanks!

I'm looking at the Notgrass history texts. I know they are from a Christian perspective, but can anyone tell me which particular Christian perspective? I want something that demonstrates the impact of Christianity on Western culture, but not a preachy kind of Christian perspective. Also, my son does NOT like traditional textbooks. He really hates Spielvogel, et. al. and says they're "boring." How does Notgrass compare to something like Spielvogel in terms of challenging reading and objective but complete coverage? Thanks for any input you may be able to provide!

Why do so many "selective" and even "highly selective" colleges offer remediation, especially in writing and math? We've seen it at one of our children's "selective" colleges, and my husband (a math prof) sees it first-hand in his classes! Kids are being graduated from high school without the proper foundation. So much emphasis is put on getting a high score on AP tests, but the kids can't remember what they've "learned" or write a clear essay! Like anything else, there is good and bad in our university system. Some things one considers advantages (on-campus living, for example), can be disadvantages to other students. We do what works best for us.

I did not know about that website, but will definitely check it out!

I didn't buy the tests for these, but would like to draft my own "quizzes." Could somebody just tell me what the publisher does for tests? is it multiple choice, like the exercises in the book, or definition/sentence usage? I've used crosswords in the past, incorporating the roots, words & definitions, and usage in a sentence. Just looking for suggestions for a change of pace. Thanks!

We are a little "off-cycle", due to when we started the 4-year cycle years ago with my older children, so my son, now starting grade 9, is in Medieval/Early Renaissance. Looking at the readings for this period, I'm wondering if some of them might be a little beyond him. He just turned 14 in May. We've already read Beowulf. I thought the story line would intrigue him, and it did. He got a lot out of it! My question is, where to go next. I've always tweaked the lists a little, but I'm at a loss right now of what to read next. Knowing my son, there is no way he could do everything on the list. So, if you had to choose 10, which would they be? What is most important for a student to have background in? And what, if anything, could be substituted to make sure his literature/history is well-rounded? I'm thinking some can't-miss readings would be Shakespeare and Chaucer, of course; probably Dante, Machiavelli, and some of the reformers . . . ? Are excerpts OK if he can't manage the whole piece? Thanks for your advice!

Thank you very much Samuel! He has already chosen to apply at Baylor and UVA. I don't think he thought of any upper end schools, probably because he didn't think he would get in, but I will pass along your suggestions.

Yes. I got mine on ebay. You have to be rather careful, though, to get the study guide that matches the edition you own. Otherwise, order direct from the publisher and pay a LOT more.

Specific interests: Government, reforming the political system, history, the Constitution. He majored in both poli. sci. and philosophy, and is interested in the philosophical roots of government. He wants to teach at the college level because he feels that arena is lacking a conservative voice. Math skills are excellent, but he has no interest in the statistical area of poli. sci. He did some of that kind of research during an internship and found it not particularly to his liking. He is scheduled to take the GRE in August. His college GPA in his major was 3.9. The American system of government is his "specialty," so I don't think anything global would be of interest at this time. Appreciate your advice!!

We love the TQ guides! Flexibility in book choices!! (That said, we use the library extensively, rather than purchase them all.) The guides are about $25-$30. The only issue would be if you like things structured and laid out for you - TQ is not like TOG in that respect. We like that aspect of TQ, whereas we did NOT like the structure of TOG, or the expense. I used an older ed. of TOG, but I didn't think much of the rhetoric level book choices back then, either. Perhaps it has changed since 2000?

I am one of only a very few who uses Abeka. We started with it way back in the 90's with my first child, as it was recommended in WTM. Worked well, so I just kept using it for my consecutive children. My motto is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" I never even looked at an alternative through the years, simply because Abeka did the trick for us. Incidentally, we don't do ALL the exercises, nor do I use the writing component. I have 4 very capable and proficient young writers! Those who took the ACT/SAT writing portion scored 11s and 12s; one works as a writing tutor in college and writes fiction for fun; youngest is working on his first novel, and it's actually pretty good!