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Posts posted by Caralee

  1. 7 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

    Actually, I felt like what we sort of raised new/different issues for you rather than directly answer your original issue...  😬 😂😉



    Well, while I was asking you this question, I was working through some other "understanding" that related to this, specifically regarding reading with comprehension and writing effectively...and today, after much study, it all fell into place in my mind. But you all were very helpful in this process. Thank you for flushing out my ideas and understanding for me.  🥰

    • Like 1
  2. 19 minutes ago, Farrar said:

    Yes, I'm with Lori on this. YA books in general helped spur discussions for my kids that reading something like A Christmas Carol or Rime of the Ancient Mariner simply did not. Which is not to say that you can't have a meaty discussion from an older book. Or that older books don't have their own importance. Reading something like those older works is important for developing one's ability to read difficult texts and appreciate them. But literature serves a variety of purposes and those books don't typically meet all the needs I see that kids have.

    But this is individual. I said nothing is a must... I really believe in reading YA... but it's also not a must.

    There is a ton of amazing early American themed YA. Rather than Fever or Sophia's War, I strongly recommend Laurie Halse Anderson's Seeds of America series, which is excellent. Especially since you're in Canada, I'll also suggest Elijah of Buxton since it's set most there.


    Thank you this is very helpful. I really appreciate you sharing with me all of this. It has shown me how to have balance in our literature selections for each level. 

    • Like 2
  3. 44 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

    Similar to Farrar -- while we did do a lot of Lit. to match up with our History or Geography studies through the years, I never *exclusively* did that, as we would have missed SOOOO many age-appropriate books just because they "didn't match the History window". Middle school is such a fantastic time to start having discussions -- I was so glad we did a lot of YA books in grades 6-9 (along with good books that happened to match up with our History), and then on in to high school, as it really kept alive DSs' interest in books and literature, and we had some fantastic discussions and really wrestled through some tough topics together. 🙂

    Thank you Farrar and Lori for your input. Very helpful.


    • Like 2
  4. 9 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

    Wow, you're right -- that's a boatload of reading!

    First, I would look hard at the specific student before me to determine what was appropriate for amount of reading and types of books -- last thing you want to do just as the student is on the cusp of being able to/interested in thinking and discussing is to kill any interest in reading. So:
    - What is the student's reading level?
    - Is the student strong/faster, or average, or weak/slower with reading?
    - And most importantly, what is the student's *interest* in reading -- likes to read, or not? Likes to read works connected to the History study, or prefers other genres?

    Without knowing more about your student, my initial thoughts would be:

    1. first, make Shakespeare and poetry more informal 1x/week:
    - *watch* rather than *read* a few Shakespeare plays this year (go to some live performances after a day or two of prep!)
    - make poetry reading more informal ("Poetry and Tea time", and do it once a week, or every other week, in place of the regular literature)
    - or if really pressed for time:  1 day/week, in alternate units, learn about then watch then discuss a Shakespeare play, and after several weeks, switch to a few weeks of poetry
    - and then the other 4 days/week read through your other literature choices

    2. then, go with your 1 Canadian work, + 3 classic works from the WTM list; alternate those 4 books with 4 works of DS of high interest to him -- YA works, historical fiction to go with your history, exploring a genre he is really interested in... etc. That's 1 book a month for the school year, with time once a week to cover poetry and Shakespeare -- and not get overwhelmed with too much Literature.

    I don't currently have a the WTM on my shelf, but am looking at the list for early modern (is that what you'd be doing for 7th grade?) from SWB's handouts here. From that list, I'd say the following is do-able by (and of age-level INTEREST for) an average 7th grade reader:

    The Reading List
    - use the poets/poems in her list as what you choose from for your weekly poetry & tea time
    - pick a handful of famous fairy tales (SWB lists 3 different collections; choose a few stories from each author for a range of story types)
    - since you are Canadian, I wouldn't worry about Ben Franklin or Frederick Douglass -- also, those are better tackled in high school, IMO
    - classics well-suited for middle school (reading level AND interest level):
         Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll
         The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Mark Twain
         A Christmas Carol, Charles Dickens
    - optional -- do or don't do, depending on student interest/ability:
    “A Voyage to Lilliput” Gulliver’s Travels, Jonathan Swift
         The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle, Washington Irving
         20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Jules Verne

    SUPPLEMENTAL READINGS -- Historical novels and biographies to find at your library
    - all are American History based, so you could skip them and focus on Canadian historical fiction of the time period
    - also a lot of these listed are a bit young for 7th grade, or are more of "girl interest" than "boy interest"
    - also, there is not a lot of diversity in SWB's historical fiction supplements, so maybe try some alternatives??

    some other historical fiction ideas:
    Fever 1793 (Anderson)
    Chains (Anderson) -- first of a trilogy
    Arrow Over the Door (Bruchac) -- may be young for DS
    Sophie's War (Avi) -- may be young for DS
    Carry On Mr. Bowditch (Latham)


    This was really really helpful! Thank you!!! I needed this guidance. 



    • Like 1
  5. 7 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

    2. then, go with your 1 Canadian work, + 3 classic works from the WTM list; alternate those 4 books with 4 works of DS of high interest to him -- YA works, historical fiction to go with your history, exploring a genre he is really interested in... etc. That's 1 book a month for the school year, with time once a week to cover poetry and Shakespeare -- and not get overwhelmed with too much Literature.



    Clarification needed. What is 'YA' mean? 


  6. 5 minutes ago, Farrar said:

    Repeat after me... No literature is an absolute must.

    I swear it's true. And I believe in having kids read "important" books and be exposed to "classics." But you cannot cover every book someone thinks is important. Just accept that you will skip something that someone else thinks was on the top of the list. And that's okay! It's more about the totality of what you did than any particular book. You look at the list (or a bunch of lists), you say, okay, we're going to try to do the things that will work for us. You say, I'm going to try to cover a variety of places, times, genres, sorts of authors... and then you let it be the best it can be and let it go. They may or may not pick those up later. They may or may not come to you in college or in their 30's to say, Why oh why did you make me read that?! Or to say, Why oh why didn't you make me read that?! Because you cannot read it all. Let yourself be okay with that.


    "No literature is an absolute must." There I repeated it after you. Yes, I will keep repeating this to get it into my head. Thank you. 🙂 

    I guess I just find choosing books based on my preference could lend to a lack of covering the variety that is needed. That is why I didn't want to use my own preferences. I want to have discussions about the 'challenging topics' with my children, not avoid them, which could happen if I went with what I liked. lol  But your suggestions above were helpful. 


    • Like 2
  7. 6 minutes ago, Farrar said:

    I'd say right off the bat, bu-bye Pilgrim's Progress. Is that still on the lists? My TWTM is old.

    A lot of the list is poems. I don't think it's not doable. I would say ditch anything you're not excited about. Ask here and elsewhere what's not to be missed (which I think will get you more responses than what do I choose or what do I cut). I think Home Again's idea to rank them is good. Also, I'd say if you rank them and then realize everything that made your cut is of a certain sort of book or author, then see what you can do to mix it up. You don't want to have all adventure stories by white male authors. You want some memoirs, some mysteries, some other genres, etc. You want some female authors, some non-white authors, etc. Same thing with time period. If you realize all your books are from the 1800's, then maybe you need to swap one for something earlier.


    This is a bit more of what I need. I have done some of this already. I do have a variety of books from different time frames of our historical period, and I have varied the authors. I will look at the certain sort of book to see if I have anything repeated. That will help.  


    • Like 1
  8. Yes, that is good, BUT how do I know which literature books should be absolutely covered and which are best to lay aside for my children to pick up on their own alter on? Making decisions based on my limited knowledge and understanding of literature is not a good guide. I wish there was a website or someone that would explain this for me: What literature is an absolute must and what is not, and why? And how can a person cut their literature lists down effectively without losing the essence of why they are learning literature in the first place. 


  9. For our current year, we are in the history cycle of 1500 to 1850 AD. For my logic level student, we have planned to read 4 literatures per term (there are 3 terms) (and we are going to read most, not all, of TWTM logic literature list for grade 7) along with Canadian Literature (1 book), Shakespeare and Poetry. I am finding it is still too much for us to cover. How do I know what books to read and which can be cut? I would like to get my list down to about about 2 literatures, Shakespeare and Poetry, therefore I would like to know what book I could cut from our list of TWTM logic literature list for grade 7. And then I would like to know how to go about doing this for the future in any other grade? I would really love to hear from those who are strong in literature and can give me real practical principles to follow. Thank you! 

  10. I just want to say to lewelma and all others who have added to this topic a BIG THANK YOU! This is something I have been thinking about and working through for myself and my children.What I have learned from my own personal experience is that these things come easily (as in they pick them up or clue into them easily)for soem people. Also, generally, depending on who you are, it is easier to figure out these EF in some subjects versus others. For instance, I am great at figuring out how to learn math with mastery and got a 98% grade in high school with ease, but ask me to do that in English or History and I struggled because I just did not know what to do, and as one person mentioned above, only a few teachers in schools teach these EF in their class. I find most don't and expect people to figure them out themselves.

    I am learning that the first step is to learn oneself or your children to know what kind of person they are. Secondly, I have learned that no matter the type of person they are, we all need to learn these skills (or as I see them, these frameworks) that are so important to know and use in one's life to make them successful. These frameworks are how we make sense of things and live effectively  ~  how to read, think, and express ourselves (basically knowledge, understanding and wisdom is another way of expressing it). Lastly, knowing who we are and that we need to learn these skills, as lewelma shares, we need to figure out how to teach these things so that it clicks in each persons mind.  And motivation and maturity has a huge amount of influence in this. 

    Thank you so much for making this thread. I am going to read through and really digest this one. And I will definitely refer people to this thread for further help in this area. 

    • Like 1
  11. Hello everyone,


    I am interested in finding books for my children that share how to read the weather and nature to know what is coming up in terms of weather and danger, good crop etc... (ex: the sky is dark for 3 nights in a row, therefore, it means that ....is coming... or the animals are running quickly away from this direction therefore this means....). 


    Also, I would like to start teaching my children survival skills and how to take care of themselve without the need for government assistance. This could range from homesteading to how to run a business etc. 


    Any suggestions?

  12. I do think that you could use Wile's curriculum and be well-prepared for 7th grade science, but have only used it for my younger child so don't have BTDT experience at the upper level. 


    Have you looked at Elemental Science for Logic Stage earth & astronomy?  It's recommended in the 4th edition, with the other formal curriculum alternative being Great Science Adventures paper models & books: Discovering Earth's Landforms and Surface Features, Discovering the Ocean, and The World of Space. 


    Thank you for responding Serendipitous Journey! I really appreciate you taking the time to answer. 


    I have looked at that curriculum, but not indepth. I will look at the other recommendation too. 


    I thought that Wile's curriculum would be good, but each book covers all the various topics of the 4 year science cycle as outlined in TWTM, and I did not want to cover Chemistry or Physics until grade 7 and 8. I am looking to have more in depth learning/ experiment learning in grade 5-6 like I have with the NOEO courses. 

    • Like 1
  13. Hello. I am excited to find this group. I follow CM but use resources/ideas from TWTM. I am wanting to do a CM type science program based on TWTM logic level science plan. I have some living books for science of human body, plants, animals, earth science and astronomy (grades 5-6), but I am not sure if it covers all the various topics within each of these larger subjects completely. I need to ensure my children know these subjects accurately as they eventually go to public high school. 


    How do you do your CM science for grades 5 and 6 using TWTM science plan?


  14. Hello. I am trying to plan my logic science plan for grades 5 and 6. We are a Charlotte Mason/Classical Type homeschoolers. I am following TWTM plan for science. With my older children this is what I used for them based on the 2nd edition TWTM:


    Grade 5 - Human Body/ Animals

    • How the Body Works
    • How Nature Works

    Grade 6 - Astronomy/Earth Science

    • How The Universe Works
    • How the Earth Works


    I found these books okay but the real difficulty was the experiments. I use NOEO Level 3 Chemistry and Physics for Grades 7 and 8.  What I need help with is what other science curriculums can I use to replace Grade 5 and 6. I would like a complete curriculum like the NOEO ones (if I can find one) that have the books and experiments and plan all wrapped up into one. I am thinking about the NOEO LEVEL 2 Biology curriculum (http://www.logospressonline.com/noeo)  which would be good, but then I don't know what to do for Grade 6 astronomy and earth science. What would you suggest? I don't have TWTM 4th edition so I don't know what Susan Bauer suggests. :( Perhaps I have to get the 4th edition. 


    For grades 1-4, I am using Dr. Wile's elementary science curriculum (5 books) here: https://www.bereanbuilders.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=ELEM


    I know a person can use his curriculum for grades 1-6 and then go into his Apologia Science curriculum, but we are not doing that. Could I still use his elementary science curriculum until grade 6 nevertheless and just continue with NOEO course in grade 7 and 8? Would this curriculum cover grades 5 and 6 topics enough?


    Or do you have a better idea?


  15. I have already answered your questions elsewhere Caralee, I just wanted to say welcome, I didn't realize you were a member here too :)


    Yes, Brandy! Thankyou for sharing all you have learned with me. I so appreciate it. I have been on this forum for a very long time. I only post here or elsewhere when I really need an answer to something. Thankyou for your welcome. It is nice to connect with neighbours here. :hurray:

  16. I appreciate all that you have shared. I am in contact with a few homeschoolers on a local forum here where I live and they have informed me that Apologia does line up with our provincial high school curriculum. I am going to ask a few more questions to ensure this is all good, but it sounds promising once again.


    Debbie, I cannot tell you how thankful I am that you shared the DIVE link. I looked at it and it looks really good. I am really thinking that using DIVE with Apologia could work well for us. Again, I will continue solidifying my research.



  17. I think I can answer all of the Apologia questions.


    If you want to use Apologia and try to do 2 books/year, your math level will hold you back. I think you would have to consider a sequence such as:

    9th grade: Algebra 1 - Biology (you could also do Physical Science if you want to double)

    10th grade: Geometry - Chemistry, Advanced Biology

    11th grade: Algebra 2 - Physics, Advanced Chemistry

    12th grade: Pre-Calculus - Advanced Physics


    Debbie, Thank you so much for answering my questions.


    I had my suspicion that my son would not have to do the General and Physical sciences. I am glad I asked this.


    Yes, I was in error to mention that the Dr. Wile curriculum is AP, the second courses are only advanced. I believe your statement about the two books equalling a HS course for the US is what I have found for Canada in other posts written other Canadians, though I would have to confirm this. So if I was to use this curriculum I would have to complete both texts for each of the 3 subjects.


    ...Which leads me to think that perhaps, it is not a great use of our time and energy having to do 2 texts per subject in order to equal one full HS course...unless someone can give me some good reasons to continue in this vein. Is there another curriculum that is more suitable to use?, that would be much better?


    I know when I went to HS (though that was a long time ago :) ), I did not have as much exposure and knowledge as my son has had and I successfully completed the HS bio, chem, and physics courses in 2 years. So how hard can it be?


    Debbie, based on your plan above, I was thinking we would do Algebra 1 in grade 9, Algebra in grade 10, then Advanced Math in grade 11, and then whatever after that. I see you mention Geometry for grade 10. I thought Saxon covers geometry gradually throughout all the books. Is this not true? Should I add Geometry to our plans?

  18. We don't have a topic for science to study this year per se. I am just wanting to follow a science sequence that will give my ds all he needs to enjoy his learning of science in the various areas and to enable him entrance to universities here. I do like having a biblically based curriculum, though I am not averse to using a secular curriculum if it is really good.


  19. We live in Canada, and have a ds who is entering grade 9 via homeschooling. We have completed the TWTM sequence of science from grade 1-8. My ds will be doing Saxon Algebra 1 this coming year. We are interested in using the Apologia (Dr. Wile) science texts. My understanding is that in order for our universities to accept a student into sciences, they need to complete both the regular and AP texts of the Bio, Chem, and Physics courses of Apologia (If someone from Canada can confirm this or expound on this, I would appreciate this.)


    I am in need of some answers so I can better judge what to do for our science this year and to prepare him accordingly for sciences in university if he so chooses to go that route.


    1. If a student followed the 8 year sequence of science outlined in TWTM, does this student still need to complete one or both of Apologia's Physical Science and General Science courses? Is one more necessary than the other? Is there any reason this student should do one or both of these courses? If it is good to do both, can a student do both in one year?
    2.  OR can this student skip these courses and start directly into Apologia's Physical and General Science courses and go straight into the regular Biology, Chemistry, or Physics course?
    3. For the regular Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses offered by Apologia, which course should a student do first, second, third?  Can a student do two of these regular courses in one year?
    4. Can a student do the regular course and the advance course of either Bio, Chem, or Physics (of Apologia's) together in one year?
    5. I understand that the student needs to do certain maths before certain sciences, but I am unclear as to which. Could you please share which maths need to be with which sciences?
    6. Is there any other science program that would be better suited or any other advice or suggestions?

    Thank you

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