We started in MUS Alpha which left dd in tears because she got “stuck” mastering her addition facts so couldn’t move on. The mastery of approach of MUS didn’t seem to fit her learning style so we switched to RS and have completed Level B & C. I’m currently contemplating whether to continue with D or jump ship. Here are my rambling thoughts. :iagree: RS provides a fabulous conceptual understanding of math versus mere memorizing of rote formulas. It is the main reason I hesitate leaving RS. :iagree: My dd still struggles with her math facts although is improving as of late. Ideally math facts are supposed to be mastered while playing the RS card games, but I’ve not been consistent with playing the games which is my fault not a fault of the RS program. Hindsight is 20/20. :) OhElizabeth is right! If you use RS, play the card games frequently or supplement with math drills so facts are mastered. My dd also dislikes worksheets so RS is a good fit in that regard BUT the problem I’ve discovered is that she really needs more practice before moving on to new concepts. This was our experience as well so I decided to try out CLE, over the summer, as its spiral approach provides continual review in each lesson plus it has built in math drills to master math facts. DD is doing great with it, but HATES the 4 worksheets per lesson and is begging to return to RS. I agree that RS is teacher-intensive but IMHO, it is NOT difficult to teach at all. It is "intensive" in that you actually have to sit down to teach the lesson so you cannot hand the student a workbook and expect them to work independently. DD likes the one-on-one time RS provides, but I’m longing for her to have more independence and CLE fits that bill perfectly. Plus she seems to have trouble following directions so though she may understand the concept, she makes many silly little mistakes when doing computation. CLE's worksheets give her needed practice in computation as well as reading directions on her own which is important at her age (almost 11). So all of this rambling to say that I think RS is a fantastic program that gives a solid math foundation. I’m contemplating combining RS and CLE in the fall, but the jury is still out. Not sure it'd be wise to do 2 math programs as it'd probably send dd over the edge (math is not her favorite subject)! :) I really like the independent, spiral approach provided by CLE plus the fact that it covers concepts we've not encountered in RS (somewhat important because we are "behind" in math), but I really hesitate giving up the conceptual understanding gained through RS. Any input is welcome!!

We are in the process of switching over to CLA for LA and Math. From what I've heard, the placement tests are fairly accurate and it is common for students to place into CLE "below" their current grade level. My dd placed into her grade level in LA (barely) and placed lower in math (I expected this). I have Math 401 and it reviews concepts taught in Level 300. The instructions say to give them the final test in 401 and if they pass with 90%, they are ready to begin in 402 so can skip 401 entirely. If they do not pass, the various skills in 401 are tested by category (multiplication, decimals, fractions, etc.). Each skill has a a pre-test so if student passes the pre-test, they move on to the next pre-test. If they do not pass, a practice section follows for that skill area. My understanding is that the 01 light units in LA are NOT review of the previous level's concepts. Only 01 of math LU's are a review. Since my dd barely placed into 500 LA level, I didn't know if I should start in 500 or bump her back to 400. I wanted her to be challenged, but didn't want it to be too difficult either. After seeking advice, I decided to keep her in 500, but I bought the extra practice sheets for Level 400 so we can work on skills she may need extra help with. We have been doing diagramming previously so that skill is not new to her. You could always buy CLE's Basics of Diagramming booklet ($3.00) which is a summary of all diagramming skills. Hope this helps!

:iagree: Thanks

I didn't believe the glowing reviews, but in our case they were accurate! :)

Thanks so much! Here is another for free audio books. Many coincide with Ambleside Online: www.librivox.org Unit study/notebooking http://www.homeschoolshare.com/

Ditto! :iagree: My book just arrived and my experience has been the same!

We've used Dance Mat and Typing Instructor when dd was younger. A friend, who has homeschool graduates, gave me her old typing book titled Keyboarding Skills, All Grades by Diana Hanbury King. It is a simple, no frills approach where students learn the keyboard in alphabetical order. I'm using it with my 11 yo dd and like it a lot.

:iagree: My dd has an "or" in her name and the way HWT teaches it looks strange indeed. I'm trying to correct it to no avail as of yet. :001_unsure: HWT is a breeze to teach. I heartily recommend it! I think kids will develop their own unique style as they become more fluent.

Great idea! :iagree: We also used Spelling Wisdom but had not thought of using a higher level for copywork. Thanks!

We've completed Level B & C and I can assure you that fractions and various geometry concepts will be covered again and again. I wouldn't be concerned AT ALL! If it makes you feel any better, my 10 yo dd often does not "get" the answer that Dr. Cotter is looking for even with all the leading explanations so I understand that frustration. When my dd was 6-7 yo she did the exact same thing (still does sometimes). After listening to a lecture on the various "ages and stages" children go through, it indicated that it is very common for them to seem to know something one day and completely forget it the next. It's developmental. Don't sweat it.... just keep moving forward and play lots of games. She'll be fine!

The old version of Times Tales has only the 6,7,8,9 facts. There is a supplement to that version that add's the 3,4 facts. The new deluxe version includes all of the above + the corresponding division facts. The 11's, 12's, 5's, 2's are not included in any of the editions.

This isn't free but worked wonders for my dd. I didn't believe the rave reviews, but in our case, they were accurate. http://www.triggermemorysystem.com/

Corbie, If she's good at math, RS would probably be great because she'd catch on quickly. The way it helps children understand math conceptually is phenomenal. I'm not saying you should switch from Horizons, but just wanted to add that thought as I know you were concerned about how much time it'd take to do RS. It took my dd longer to get through the RS lessons because math isn't her thing, but she is making progress and my dh, who is a math person, is pleased with the "math mind" she is developing. As a side note, I decided to have her "try out" Christian Light over the summer as I wanted her to gain more independence, etc.. and have more practice with computation skills. She is begging to go back to RS.

Many buy RS games to supplement their current math program so this is a great option! My dd still doesn't "enjoy" math even with RS, but when I contemplated using another math program, she begged to stick with RS. I don't know if she will ever "enjoy" math. She hated MUS because the mastery approach caused her to get stuck as she had difficulty getting her addition facts down. I'm not sure which Level you'd start with but RS does not have a lot of worksheets. The facts are learned through playing card games so that is an important part of the program.

Saxon and CLE seem similiar because they both use an incremental approach (teaches a bite-size of the new concept) with a spiraling review of concepts previously learned. One HUGE difference I see between CLE and Saxon 5/4 text I have is that CLE has problems written out in the consumable workbook whereas Saxon required student to hand write all the problems on a separate sheet of paper. We've just started in CLE, but so far it has been open and go.

We've used RS Level B & C. Yes, it is teacher intensive in that you have to sit down and actually teach the lesson BUT IMHO, it is not difficult to teach and I'm NOT a math whiz. It took me a few weeks to get the hang of the RS way of thinking when we began level B, but now I open the TM and go. RS actually recommends that you only spend 30 minutes on the math lesson even if it means splitting a lesson into two days. There are more games to play than you'll ever need and they have increasing levels of difficulty for each skill set (Numeration, Addition, Subtraction, Multiplication, Division, Fractions, Clocks, Money, etc.) so can be used successfully with various age levels. In fact your older child, could play some of the Level B games with your younger children, etc... Sounds like RS meets your criteria since you are willing to spend 30 minutes teaching math and your family likes to play games.

I'd love to hear more about it, too! :)

oops! Double post

Thanks so much! :001_smile:

Growing with Grammar (GWG) is supposed to be the secular version of R & S. The GWG student manual is directed to the student, but you could certainly teach/read it with her. The student workbook has one page to practice the new concept and another page is review of previously learned concepts so there is continual review. FYI, my dd, who will be in 5th grade this fall, completed GWG 3 and is 2/3 the way through GWG 4. I recently gave her CLE placement test and she barely placed into Level 500 in LA. Most of the items she missed were either concepts that weren't covered at all in GWG or concepts that will be covered in portions of GWG 4 that we haven't completed yet. Even though she placed into level 500, I plan to start her a few LU's back in CLE 400 so she can get a feel for it before new concepts are introduced since it is laid out differently than GWG. I really like GWG, but decided to give CLE LA a try since it seems more comprehensive. If it doesn't work, we'll go back to GWG.

It is a great program for a 3 yo. Here is the link for the Before Five in a Row forum where you can have specific questions addressed: http://www.fiarhq.com/~gbprnhrz/forum/index.php

I'm interested in hearing, too.

My dd is older than yours and she also finished RS Level C. We did online placement test and she tested into CLE Level 400. My dd is not gifted so perhaps your dd will place higher than that. I purchased 306-308 inexpensively in order to give CLE a "trial run". DD says she hates it and wants to return to RS even though she is doing really well with CLE (1 wrong per lesson). She doesn't like change nor does she like that CLE lessons are 4 pages long (worksheets) when she is used to a one page worksheet in RS. CLE covers concepts that RS has not covered in Level C such as decimals, mixed fractions, measurement, etc.. I like CLE and think the computation practice, speed drills, etc. will help solidify my dd's math skills so I plan to do it through the summer then will re-evaluate in the fall.

Have you considered Christian Light Math? Here is their diagnostic placement test. http://www.clp.org/store/by_grade/19 They also have sample lessons to peruse: http://www.clp.org/store/by_subject/4 It allows student to work independently and is inexpensive. We don't use Saxon but I gave dd their placement test and she tested into 6/5. In Christian Light (CLE), she tested in Level 400. CLE looks really thorough and gets good reviews.

CLE sells a "Basics of Diagramming" book for $3.00 that would work well since you are planning to use CLE.