Unsinkable, Thank you so much for taking the time to share this information!:001_smile: Oh Elizabeth, I appreciate your comments about Guerber. You are right; I am trying to choose a spine. In addition to that, I looked at the WTM book suggestions for Ancients, and I also found posts where ladies on this board shared their favorite ancient readers. I don't yet know how to do it, but I'm warming up to the idea of using WTM books with others' favorites to make my own reading list. I've been reading WEM and am about to start How to Read A Book. Somehow shouldn't I be able to combine WTM research with our own reading/discussions without using BF? My goal is to try to ask logic stage questions.... do more analysis..... maybe use Figuratively Speaking to learn literary terms.... We have been using SonLight Cores 3-4 this year and last year. I want to analyze books more deeply next year. This might mean reading a fewer number of history readers: quality vs. quantity. That's ok. I think fewer history books will mean more time to read a wider variety of grade-level books. I've heard great things about Total Language Plus..... maybe try one of those or even a Progeny Press. There will have to be a balance between history readers and those not for history, of course. I'd LOVE for some of you to share advice about how to do this. I'm one of those who WANTS a lesson plan. I haven't done well in the past making my own. That is one reason I thought BF would be a good option. (Maybe it still is....... I just don't know.) Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? I tend to complicate things that are meant to be simple. :tongue_smilie: I'll continue to read my books and get more familiar with WTM ideas, and I'm sure I'll get more comfortable as I learn more. In the meantime, what do you all like best for the spine. I picked out my favorites: Oxford History of the Ancient World, Usborn Internet-Linked Encyclopedia of the Ancient World, and Kingfisher. I will be using SOTW with AG with the younger, so I'm really shopping for my 6th and 7th graders. Guerber as well as K12's History Odyssey are also popular choices on this board. I suppose Spievogel's Human Odyssey is too advanced, but it is also quite popular. Primary resource options I liked were: The Mammoth Book of How it Happened, Oxford Primary Sources, or Ancient History from Primary Sources by Bluedorn. Which of these are your favorites? Thanks so much, everyone!

I have heard a lot of people who use and love The Human Odyssey. I have not been able to see samples of the book. Can you tell me where I can do this?

Thanks, Julie! I appreciate your point about WTM with BF. What if I made this adjustment to the question: What readers would you all incorporate into WTM? ....Not really with a curriculum company, but just as read alongs to flesh out the research. What are your favorite ancient read alongs? I guess I could see where SonLight, Beautiful Feet and WTM overlap and use those.... any thoughts? Still hoping someone will share what worked best for logic spines and primary sources... :)

My 6th & 7th graders will study ancient history the WTM way next year. We are new to this. Please help me consolidate options as I tend to overbuy. I will need to teach 2nd grade with 6th-7th. I hope to make history *fun* yet certainly move into logic stage with the older kids. (I will be using SOTW with AG because I will have a 2nd grader.) WTM spine options: Oxford History of the Ancient World *or* The Usborn Internet Linked Encyclopedia of World History *or* Kingfisher History: The Definitive Guide (I want to have this one since WTM says it's the most complete of the 4 mentioned in the book and because I want some material written on a higher grade level to stretch us some.) Learning Through History Magazine: Ancients bundle (Text and activities) *Streams of Civilization Timelines: Usborne Time Line of World Events Primary Sources: The Mammoth Book of How It Happened *or* Oxford Primary Sources *or* Ancient History from Primary Sources by Bluedorn I would like to use readers to flesh out our research. I am aware of the list of books in WTM, but I am also wondering about using BF's Ancient History curriculum. Is this a good fit, or would it be too much? I've also wondered about using WTM technique for BF. What is a good balance between readers and WTM research? *BF uses Streams of Civilization. It has tests included which would be helpful. Do you all test for logic stage history? What do you use? I want to give my kids test taking experience. Any advice/encouragement would be greatly appreciated!

I have a 5th and 6th grader this year, and they have been using Rosetta Stone Latin American Spanish. RS has been great for independent work. They have been exposed to lots and lots of vocabulary. They have heard the language..... immersion. But, RS has not taught grammar well. You might want to consider a program that is strong on grammar because it is the one thing that ties vocabulary and understanding the language all together. Without grammar, RS has become increasingly frustrating for my kids. (RS certainly has its strengths, and I'm glad we have it. It's just not strong in grammar.) We bought the 3 year package of RS, so I really want to use the next two years. I'm currently trying to decide what to do about grammar myself. RS sent me some grammar-page helps. I haven't had a chance to look through them yet. They may help, but at first glance, they don't look complete enough. I am considering using Getting Started with Spanish in conjunction with RS for next year. It's not expensive, teaches grammar slowly, and sounds EASY. Read reviews on Amazon. (Bill Linney also wrote Getting Started with Latin: great reviews). HTH

MamaT, thank you! This looks awesome! Is there anyone else who can help me with logic-level spelling? I've since thought about how this age needs to be able to proof-read and find their own spelling/grammar errors..... Of course, knowing the phonograms/rules would certainly play into this.

Ladies, I decided to use WRTR phonogram cards with my kids to review spelling. (Sounds strange, but this is the first year I've systematically used them to teach spelling because my son has used them in Sing,Spell,Read, and Write 1st grade.) Now I want to use them with my older children. Great idea, but this has led me down a bunny trail, and I am stuck. We've been using Spelling Power for 3 years. My daughter's spelling has improved, but it doesn't feel like we've make grade appropriate progress. She said to me the other day, "When are we going to get to harder words?" and she also doesn't like the 10-step page either. I think we just need something fresh and more age/grade appropriate for next year. Coming from a Spelling Power background, I thought we could just apply WRTR phonogram cards/spelling rules. I tried.... there's no way to check to see if I marked a word correctly. This became frustrating. Ok... checked this forum to see what is good for 7th grade (jr.high) spelling that uses phonogram/rule approach: Megawords and How to Teach Spelling. There are advantages/disadvantages to each. I like Megawords better.... looks like more fun and the look of the pages is more appealing. But... it requires we start at Book 1 and take at least 2 years to finish. This becomes expensive and time consuming. HTTS: Is much less expensive and they have only 1 book to cover grades 7-12. But.... it looks like anything but fun. This is the kid who likes colors in her school books. (I realize that none of these use color, but HTTS somehow rates lowest in appearance appeal.) Then, we could try... Apples and Pears: Which is what I think I'll use for my 2nd and 5th graders: both boys. Good fit for 2nd because he is young and for my 5th because he makes characteristic spelling errors. (SP works at the table for him, but does not transfer to writing.) Using A&P with my daughter would get us all doing the same thing, but she's a decent speller, and I don't think A&P would be the best choice. Am I wrong here??? Ok..... then there is WRTR. I love the idea of WRTR, and I'm reading/disecting it right now with a library copy. Maybe if I used How to Start a Spelling Notebook I would understand the process better. I do understand that the student learns the phonograms/rules and then applies them to words. That sounds easy enough, but as I try to read this book and learn the system, I can't believe the depth to which I'm considering to teach SPELLING..... ! Come on...... it's just spelling! (I know, WRTR is awesome, and it works, and I like it!) I've never read anything about it going past 6th grade, so I looked at SRW which indicated spelling through 12th grade. That program is just WAY more complicated than I want. We won't even go there. Is WRTR ok for jr. high? I told you this research got me going down a bunny trail. I just want to review phonograms/rules with my 7th grader so she can apply them to words. (I love the analysis.... seems like WRTR would fit logic stage well). What would you all suggest? Is there some curriculum I've overlooked that would get the job done more easily or would you choose one of the items above?

Audrey, what do you think about combining Getting Started with Latin and Minimus for 2nd grade (after completing Song School Latin)?

Colleen, thanks! I didn't realize the rules were on the back of the phonogram cards. One other lady who answered on this thread mentioned that she likes the SWR rules for the appealing presentation. At least I wouldn't have to buy the rules from SWR unless I just wanted to.:001_smile:

Elizabeth, I'm torn between SWR cards and WRTR cards. Help me understand. If I went with SWR cards, I could get phonograms plus spelling rules and they cross-reference each other. That looks like a major benefit...... But... I have access to the WRTR book and I might not be able to use SWR stuff with the WRTR book. (Although, I'm mainly buying these to review phonogram sounds with my olders who use Spelling Power. I'm not really trying to start over with a new program..... I must admit, though, the more I read in WRTR, I have thoughts of ditching SP just so we can focus on one thing. Sometimes having choices makes for lots of confusion.) OR.... buy the WRTR phonogram cards. But I do not see any rule cards. Am I missing them? Finally, since WRTR cards are the nicest quality, is it confusing to use them with the SWR rule cards???? Help, please!:tongue_smilie:

I am so thankful for so many responses!!! I'm going to check into ordering the WRTR cards... I do not like WRTR's pronounciation of y as short i, but I read on the WRTR FAQs that the pronunciation is based on regional accents..... (can't think of the exact way they worded this). Hopefully I would be able to painlessly change that part to show y makes the long e sound. Riggs looks great, but they are not selling their cards currently. Again, thanks very much!

Thank you, ladies! Maybe I can save a few dollars by making my own cards. I appreciate your help. Has anyone else done this?

Ladies, Is it worth the money to buy WRTR's phonogram cards? There are other phonogram cards that I think I've seen at CBD... what about phonogram cards other than WRTR? If I were to make my own using the WRTR book, can anyone offer advice about how to or not to make them? Thanks!:001_smile:

Annie, This is great! Hey, ladies, just curious...... does anyone think learning the vocabulary only of Latin for Children using the chants and flash cards is a better choice than the GSwL/Minimus combo???

Audrey, Can you explain how you use Minimus? How you schedule it and how long per lesson it takes?

Again, thank you! Can anyone suggest how to schedule these? I was envisioning Monday-Thursday GSwL and read a story out of Minimus on Friday. I have NO idea if this is reasonable.

Thanks! Do you think the TM is necessary with Minimus? How far could we get without it? Would you mind sharing what Latin texts you have?

I found Getting Started with Latin packaged with Minimus on Amazon. This looked like a good combo to me because I think I read that a parts-to-whole curriculum would complement a whole-to-parts curriculum, and it combines a text with something colorful and appealing to a child. I really need this element of *fun*. (This would be for a 2nd grader who has completed Song School Latin in 1st grade.) I have several questions: Would GSwL and Minimus work well together? How would you schedule them? Is the Minimus TM necessary? A contrasting idea came to me from Latin for Children: Learn the vocabulary only for Book A by using their chant CD and flash cards to prep for using Book A in 3rd grade. Which of these seems a better fit for a 2nd grader who wants a FUN Latin program?

Ladies, I've found something that looks promising. Tell me what you think. On Amazon, they have a bundle that includes Minimus with Getting Started with Latin by Linny (excellent reviews) with Usborn Language Guides: Latin for Beginners all for $43.35. Really, the GSwL book looks great: gentle but *real* and reasonably priced! The book includes the lessons with pronounciation being a free download. I think there are additional lesson plans or lesson add-ons on the internet as well, but I haven't found them yet. I imagine using GSwL on Mon-Thurs and reading a story on Friday with Minimus. I don't know exactly how to add in the Usborn book, but it looks like a practical addition to this package. This looks like it would fit my need for a 2nd grade program and fill in the time until we could pick a curriculum for 3rd grade. Any comments? I'm encouraged!

This sounds like a good suggestion. There must be a good reason most Latin programs begin in 3rd grade. Minimus is whole to part and does not teach as much as other Latin curricula, so I've read on different reviews. Yet if a 2nd grader is using it maybe it's just the right amount for this age and would be a stepping stone to other programs. I wonder what the most popular/loved Latin curriculum is. How do you take a survey??? I would love to know what is the most popular. Thanks for your suggestion! I'm going to consider Minimus again. I'd love to hear what others' thoughts are.

Heather, Thanks so much for the experience you shared! I wonder how PL and LCI compare with SSL. Seems like PL and LC1 had more "real" Latin.... SSL has been all vocabulary with very little teaching about word endings. I don't know if SSL is enough to prepare for LL. I emailed Catherine to ask her opinion if LL might fit us for 2nd grade after using SSL in 1st, but I haven't heard from her. I've always liked LL. I've kind of wondered about using with all 3 of my kids next year. Maybe then my 2nd grader could catch on more easily just having fun with it with sibblings. (They used Rosetta Stone Spanish this year which started out ok, but because of a lack of grammar, they have become increasingly frustrated with that.) If we took time to practice Latin maybe it would eventually help them with Spanish which we could pick up again in high school...... so many thoughts. I read where LNST moves at the slowest pace and thus is good for beginners, but I'm not convinced it transfers easily to a long-term curriculum. I'm concerned PL might be a little *boring* compared to what my son is used to..... I really don't want to have to make games. I'll have a 7th and 6th grader along with my youngest son. Minimus sounds like it is fun, but I've read conflicting reviews about it.... that it does not go as far as other Latin programs plus it's quite expensive. LL isn't cheap. I think that is one part about it that is hard for me to swallow. Maybe the disc like you have is the best deal. I've read a lot of reviews that all report LL is fun!!!:) And, there is a path to upper levels if/when we need them. (Henle.... could there be others?) Hopefully, others will chime in with their experiences and opinions. Thanks again for your time!!!

Thank you, ladies. Please, anyone else??? So many teach Latin to their kids. What do you all use for 2nd grade?

Ladies, I've been trying to choose a Latin curriculum for my son who will be in 2nd grade next year. He will finish Song School Latin this year. I've read about Latin programs on this forum, but I'm really not sure which one might be the best fit for us. The more I read, the muddier the water gets. I never took Latin..... had only 1 year of Spanish a LONG time ago. I will need some hand-holding. There are not many choices for a 2nd grader. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like we need to choose from Prima Latina, Latin's Not So Tough, Minimus and maybe Lively Latin. Every other Latin curriculua I read about starts in 3rd grade. My son has asked to continue Latin. He has gotten used to the "fun" of SSL. I need to continue this aspect of "fun". If I try to get too academic, he will NOT want to continue. Yet, I want to get as far into the declenations, etc... as we can at this age. Ok... I don't know how important macrons really are, but from reading one post about them, I think I should choose a curriculum that teaches them from the beginning. My goal in using Latin is to strengthen my child's grammar skills and enhance vocabulary.... I think we need part to whole. Finally, I need a logical progression if we are to continue Latin study for several years. Also, one that is consistant in either classical or ecclesiastical pronounciation. (Classical seems more popular.) If we started with LL, PL, LNST or Minimus we could grow into LfC, First Form Latin, or stay with LL. These seem to be my favorites, but I'm certainly open to suggestions. Please..... share with me a FUN 2nd grade curriculum that could follow SSL and graduates into an older level for 3rd grade and beyond. How many of you have used Lively Latin successfully at 2nd grade? Seems like that curriculum could go either way depending on the child. BTW, we will have completed Writing With Ease vol. 1 and First Language Lessons 1 by the end of this year. His reading is on grade level..... he reads mostly word-to-word and is working to read more smoothly. (Sing, Spell, Read, and Write 1st grade) His writing is ok.... not too slow but not fast.

Ladies, I am so thankful for your responses. I feel better now if we go on with IEW, and I don't feel as bad if we don't start the progym yet. Hopefully I can avoid over-using the dress-ups, and we can improve on the word accuracy and vocabulary usage the rest of the year. I'm still wondering how to continue writing for the long term for college prep. That may be a good title for another thread. (What if we just stayed with IEW??? Is that so bad??? ) Again, THANKS!!!:001_smile:

Heather, You were so kind to type all that out. Thank you so much for your help. I see what you mean about CW being confusing (but simple once you get the hang of it.) Undoubtedly, it's a great curriculum. I read a lot about CW on this forum last night. Many people love it. It teaches writing through narration vs IEW's method of writing with dressups. [i found a page describing Theon's Principals and the Six Sentence Shuffle on-line, and the thought crossed my mind how I could teach these things on my own..... (I am never able to do this successfully! :) ] I really felt the urgent need to get my kids writing and FAST because we had put it off too long in my opinion. IEW did that. CW felt slow in comparision. That's why now that we have a base, I've turned my attention back to CW. I'm concerned with the dress-ups from IEW, but at least using the themed history writing with IEW we've really learned writing and within history too..... wonderful content. I read in WTM (I think) that SWB suggests learning the structure of writing through logic stage and saving rhetoric writing until high school. I'm second guessing a move to CW in one respect because all the repitition would feel tedious to my kids. If we waited until maybe when they are in 7th and 8th or 8th and 9th maybe we would be ready for CW or something like it. (I have a younger child too who will be in 2nd next year. I'm thinking which way I should go with him now.) I read in a post where you mentioned Classical Composition. I'm looking at that. Also, do you know if SWB's Writing With Ease uses Classical Writing concepts? I just wonder what will be in her logic writing once it's written and published. That won't help us now. I wish there was something that we could use to bridge IEW and Classical Writing that was doable for next year. Again, thank you so much for your help!!!! :001_smile: