She hasn't actually requested testing - I don't think she realizes that it's an option. This ITBS was her first-ever experience with any testing other than a spelling test or a lesson test in math. She's not instinctively self-analytical, so I don't know that it would occur to her to try and figure herself out. It might help me better accommodate her quirks with more patience, though.

Dd-now-12 took about 1 1/2 to 2 years to become solidly proficient when she began learning to type at age 10. I was also disappointed at how long it took, and she wasn't particularly motivated for the longest time. But continuing to urge the 10-15 minutes of practice each day and giving some hints/tips over the years has her typing very well now. Mama Anna

Thanks to all of you for giving me your two cents. Thanks for this perspective. I'd assumed it would help her, but I can see how it might not. We humans often discount the importance of things that come easily to us compared to things that are difficult for us but easier for others. (As if I really want her to base her worth on her abilities, anyway - not!) I know that MUS has a different scope and sequence. I'd heard that it pretty much evens out by the end of Delta, but I warned both dds that they'd see stuff they weren't familiar with on their tests. Dd9's problem was simply that she freaked out about the time limit (Bad Mama for not practicing that!!) and spent 1/4-1/3 of the testing period in tears with her hands over her face; not conducive to getting many questions answered, much less answered correctly. Like I said, I know that her score doesn't truly reflect her skill level on that test in particular. Thank you for the suggestion of the Stanford, though! Dd9 has heard us discuss possible programs for "gifted" kids that might interest Dd12 - I think that's the main way that she's heard. Because they're three years apart, each of the younger ones are familiar with the idea that the older one(s) will know things that they don't, and it's not something that comes up all the time. We didn't show Dd12 her scores when she took the ITBS in 4th grade (three years ago), just told her that she did well. She specifically requested to see her scores this time, though, so we showed each dd her score separately, focusing on her strengths, the tests that she had been concerned about, and interpreting her lower scores to help her get an idea of how they came about. We had gone into the testing situation with the explanation of, "This will give us an idea of where each of you are compared to your ps grade-level peers as well as give you a chance to get used to testing, since it's likely to happen every year (and actually mean something) once we move. We'll find out any areas of weakness that we need to shore up." This meant that I don't think they were seeing it as a contest between each other (any more than anything is a contest between siblings) and I remember specifically shifting dd12's conversation away when I heard her asking dd9 how she scored on the test - I tried to defuse such rivalry. Honest! <sigh> I'll research that test you mentioned so that I have an idea of where to go if we need to in the future. Thank you!! Yes. What you said about your "gifted" child - that about my oldest, too! And the rest of the quote - I agree with that, too. Thank you all for giving me a different perspective. I've probably just been focusing on testing the same way I did when Dd12 took her first test three years ago. It does sound like it would be best to wait for a more concrete reason to test than any I have thus far. :) (Just wait - I bet I go on another one of these in three years when dd6 takes her first standardized test . . . <sigh> I hate being so predictable!) Mama Anna

I bet there's a thread on this, but I can't figure out how to find it so I decided to just start another one. TIA for the patience of those of you who have answered this before. We have three dds and are hsing all of them. Dd12 is pretty obviously gifted and accelerated (especially in LA), working one or more years ahead of level in everything and scoring in the 99th percentile on her grade-level ITBS. How gifted? I dunno. There aren't many gifted programs in our area, so specialized testing for the sake of qualifying for them isn't really a goal. We seem to be (more or less) keeping her happy and challenged and so I'm pretty content about her lot. (I wasn't so sanguine about her when she took her first ITBS three years ago. This could be important in the discussion that follows.) We'll be moving to Ohio this summer where there are more gifted options, but I think it's likely that her required standardized test scores will probably fulfill the qualification requirements since they've been consistently so high. Dd9 just took her first ITBS and scored in the 95th percentile, despite falling apart emotionally during the math section and scoring much lower than she otherwise would have done. (I hadn't realized it, but it was her first experience with timed math computation. Period.) Dd9 is much more quirky than Dd12. Whereas Dd12 fits the "conventional" gifted stereotype (large vocabulary, intellectual curiosity, incredibly active imagination, slightly socially delayed, struggles finding age-mates who understand her, etc.), Dd9 doesn't. Dd9 has been diagnosed with a slight proprioceptive disorder, which means that she's constantly seeking physical/sensory input. Her attention span depends entirely on what she's focused (or not focused) on. She's always loved jigsaw puzzles. Packing things and fitting them into space are second nature to her. She loves to use her hands. Despite difficulty with large motor skills, her fine motor skills (threading a needle, cutting neatly, etc.) have always been advanced. (This is odd for someone with a proprioceptive disorder, as far as I understand.) She's driven to do art, especially 3D. (At a recent hs curriculum fair, I bought her some "Thinking Putty." Monday's grammar lesson turned out a pretty nice turtle. Much of this morning's handwriting/copywork time was spent prepping a sculpture of Minas Tirith. Yesterday's science lesson (magnets) turned into a ballet dancer in pointe shoes made out of a pair of pseudo-chopsticks, a toothpick and a couple of beaded wire clasps. You get the idea.) When she does art, she sometimes comes up with things that not only could I not execute (and I'm moderately artistic, if not highly trained), but things that I would never have dreamed up in a million years. Her vocabulary is pretty large for her age, though not incredibly so. Her LA scores on the ITBS were pretty near the ceiling. She's not a lightning-fast reader, but she often chooses to read above her grade level. She's most of the way through the LOTR books right now. She's working at grade level in pretty much all her subjects; reading is somewhat above. She's not fond of Math, especially the "showing your work" part. When I sit with her to help her focus and hear her verbally working through problems, I realize that her approach is not conventional; this may be one reason why she skips showing her work. She's not particularly fond of math, though I've always wondered if this could be due to the drudgery of learning math facts in arithmetic or because her older sister influenced her against it. To me Dd9 seems gifted, but not because of her test scores. She's (generally, when she can keep her mind on it) a willing worker who doesn't mind school so much. However, her level of 3D creativity is astonishing to me and her capacity for it seems inexhaustible. Questions: Would she be considered gifted or am I just trying to rationalize something based on a desire to have each of my children be "special?" Should we have her tested for giftedness? Would it be worth it to be certain of something that we already suspect? I can see several pros and cons. Pros: If we wish to get her into some kind of gifted program in Ohio, we would have test scores (other than the yearly tests which she might do better or worse on) to prove her eligibility. Another thing; she knows her older sister is gifted. I don't know exactly how this works with her self-concept but she's shown some signs of assuming that she's just not as good as her sister because she doesn't have the same strengths. Testing might give her concrete proof of her own strengths. Cons: It'll cost a lot and we're not rolling in dough. We've also got to find a place (in a new state) that would work well for testing. I've wrestled with this for a few days and haven't found much help on the internet. There are many, many years of experience in these issues between all of you. Will you please weigh in with opinions/advice/experience? Thanks for reading this far! Mama Anna

These are great suggestions - thank you all! Mama Anna

I'll cross-post this to the K-8 board. My dd 12 is working through Rosetta Stone French. She is doing well with the pronunciation, the listening, and the reading. (Writing is dependent on her remembering that all those accent thingies actually matter for the purposes of spelling. :) ) However, her understanding of grammar is . . . weak, shall we say. (I realize now that this is not surprising with RS.) I need to supplement the grammar. I don't want to give her a typical high school French text and have her wade through a complete different program. I'm looking for something that is grammar-specific. Something that teaches all the regular conjugations as well as the irregular verbs. Something that explains which prepositions are used in which expressions, including idioms. Etc. Does the Hive have any BTDT suggestions? TIA! Mama Anna

I'll cross-post this to the high school board. My dd 12 is working through Rosetta Stone French. She is doing well with the pronunciation, the listening, and the reading. (Writing is dependent on her remembering that all those accent thingies actually matter for the purposes of spelling. :) ) However, her understanding of grammar is . . . weak, shall we say. (I realize now that this is not surprising with RS.) I need to supplement the grammar. I don't want to give her a typical high school French text and have her wade through a complete different program. I'm looking for something that is grammar-specific. Something that teaches all the regular conjugations as well as the irregular verbs. Something that explains which prepositions are used in which expressions, including idioms. Etc. Does the Hive have any BTDT suggestions? TIA! Mama Anna

FWIW, this is the plan that I have with dd12. She's done MUS from Alpha through Algebra 1, but she's only in 7th grade right now. Math is not her strong point. She makes careless mistakes often and gets down on herself about it frequently. On the advice of my father, a college Calculus professor, I've decided to put her through Algebra 1 again next year using Algebra 1: A Fresh Approach. The idea is not that she's failed Algebra 1 - she does fairly well, albeit with loud complaining and the previously-mentioned mistakes. However, I want her to see math from a different perspective, learn how to work through a textbook without a video-teacher, and really solidify the concepts. Instead of "how tedious and boring to repeat the material" it's been more of a "This should be really low-pressure next year - you've already seen the material from one perspective" spin. I'm actually looking forward to it. :) Mama Anna

We've tried our best with dd12 to follow WTM's Logic Stage Science recs. I haven't been completely happy with it, but since dd12 isn't terribly science-oriented and I know she's learned a good deal with what we've done, I've been satisfied. Some observations: WTM states that the student should spend one period each week working on projects and one working on a report regarding a term, discovery, or concept from the project. In our experience, there haven't been nearly enough terms, concepts, or discoveries to make up a report each week. Last year we did Chemistry using the T&K CHEM2000 (I think) kit. Dd12 enjoyed the experiments but would spend long enough on single concepts that the whole report idea just dissipated like so much steam. I had her move through more quickly by just doing experiments every science day. We still didn't finish the kit. The suggestions of how many weeks a particular kit takes to get through are fairly accurate. I've usually gone by the lower number and we've not run out of science before the end of the year. Some kits don't work well. The Carnivorous Creations Terrarium was a complete wash-out. The Botanical Discoveries kit would have worked well except that our apartment building has a shared foyer (where the best southern exposure is) and a neighbor's 2-year-old dumped all the plant cups. The Volcano kit worked well itself, but the optional lemon soda recipe was a memorable disaster. <chuckle> I've read some really bad things about the Smithsonian Bio-Dome and am planning to substitute for it this next year with dd9. Dd12's least favorite part of Science is the Experiment Page. You're supposed to write one for every experiment. She's a good writer and doesn't mind writing in general. Still, the Experiment Pages controlled her pace to the point where she would just assume only one experiment per Science period was possible. (No wonder we never ran out of Science!) I love the hands-on aspect of WTM's Logic Stage Science and plan to do it with dd9 - with some solid tweaking. Since the purpose is basically exposure to the Scientific Method, some memorization, and understanding basic concepts, I think it does the job. Hey - dd12 still enjoys Science and her two sisters are looking forward to their turns in Logic Stage Science! If you have a STEM-focused kid or you're not comfortable digging into the projects and figuring out their difficulties (my dh vastly prefers to substitute for History instead of Science because he's not comfortable with this), I don't think WTM's recs would work well. HTH! Mama Anna

I'm basically an XSFJ. I'm usually seen as an E in contrast to my husband, who is an extreme I. I didn't find that your descriptions fit me very well at all. As an ESFJ, I do enjoy having the family together at meals, etc., but we tend to actually do work separately when we're "schooling." This is necessary for my peace of mind, due to the noise level of all three girls in one room. As an ISFJ, I would agree that I have a hard time dealing with push-back (I hold the line, just find it very wearing), but I wouldn't say that I always stay in the background and don't draw attention to myself - I'm a performer by training and use it often in my teaching. If I were to decide my letters from the descriptions that you give, I would be a combination of ISTJ and ESTJ. I love being in the details and frequently struggle with being too structured to flex as needed. It was an interesting read though - thanks for taking the time to put it together! Mama Anna

There's always Johnny Tremain and Caddie Woodlawn. Also, The Hawk that Dare Not Hunt by Day, by Scott O'Dell. HTH! Mama Anna

Okay. Thanks! I'll check into them. Be blessed!

Thanks so much for your quick reply! I was wondering, though, if there's a cadre of homeschoolers (or even any homeschoolers) who are not outsourcing and still striving for a rigorous, WTM-style high school experience. (Sorry - my post wasn't very clear, was it? :001_unsure: )

Our family will be moving back to the "Homeplace" this summer as my husband finishes his degree and my parents are beginning to need more care. My oldest will be in 8th grade next year. We've home schooled from the beginning using a more-or-less WTM approach and focusing heavily on academics. Is there anyone on here who lives in Central Ohio who has experience with an academically rigorous high school home school program? Thanks!!

I've only recently returned to the forums after a long absence, but I haven't yet seen a thread for those funny homeschool stories that we can't really share IRL for various reasons. Therefore, I thought I'd start one. Dd11 struggles with occasional insomnia. It's not chronic, but it generally freaks her out when she can't sleep. We have various standard methods of coping with it, including reading a really boring book until she can't stay awake anymore. Well, last night was a bad one for her and she knocked on our door about 1 1/2 hours after she'd gone to bed, complaining about her difficulty in getting to sleep. Dh told her to go take another dose of melatonin and then suggested that she try one of her other strategies . . . maybe reading through Erickson's Systematic Theology text as she's done before. Her response? "But it's not boring enough anymore!" Seriously?!? That text is known for putting grown seminary students to sleep on a regular basis . . . Dh chuckled and found her a translation of Josephus. (I, as a history buff, was only slightly offended in the midst of my stifled giggles.) Who else has one? Mama Anna

Thanks, desertflower!

Thanks, daijobu - your book recommendations may be just what I've been looking for!

I've got a Tinker Fairy for a daughter. Dd 8 loves making, creating, etc. She's much like my brother. So, when my brother came to visit last Thanksgiving, obsessing about the Raspberry Pi and telling me in detail (like he always does) about all the uses he was going to put it to and suggesting all sorts of ways we could use it in our schooling, I was sort of interested for dd8's sake. There's only one problem: I don't know much about this stuff. I come from a computer-savvy family. I've messed around with the C:prompt on a Windows machine before, but that's about it. My family members don't live close enough for me to just send her over there for an afternoon each week, and I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable if I could. (Same kid who wondered aloud this afternoon, "I wonder what sulfuric acid tastes like?" I wouldn't want one of my blessed brothers helping her find out. :) But anyway . . .) These are also the brothers who communicate really well, but only face-to-face. (Skype doesn't count.) So, should I invest in a Raspberry Pi? If I do, how do I assemble a kit that will allow her to actually make stuff? We've got an extra monitor and it wouldn't be a problem to get a keyboard and mouse. But what about the electronics? How . . . ? Books? Websites? Kits? Please help! Mama Anna

Does anyone else out there follow WTM suggestions for Science in the Logic stage? We've been trying to (although the kits get pretty expensive) because I love the hands-on experiments. I've noticed some things and I'm looking for feedback from others (or maybe just some reassurance, as usual). My dd loves Chemistry experiments (We're using the T&K CHEM2000 kit.). She's mostly resigned to doing experiment pages. She doesn't mind doing reports too much (she's my LA-happy dd), but she has a hard time coming up with subjects for them. I'd rather that she just keep moving through the experiment book, learning as she goes, and spend some side-time on the Periodic Table, but (as usual) I'm not sure if it's enough. Has anyone out there worked a dc through WTM science in Grammar and Logic Stages (a non-STEM-type dc) and ended up happily doing high school science with no trouble? Is anyone else working through it? What happens if I find I have an extra year before we get into high school stuff? Just asking . . . :) Mama Anna

Thanks for the feedback! Mama Anna

Hello! Dh and I have a couple questions for anyone who is studying NT Greek or Biblical Hebrew with their dc. 1) What program(s) do you use? 2) If an online tutor were to be available, would you find one to be helpful? The background is this: Dh is pursuing a PhD in Old Testament. He has a Master of Arts in Biblical Languages that enables him to teach NT Greek as well. He has a good amount of experience teaching kids piano and has been tutoring an advanced ps kid in Bib. Hebrew. As is the case with most PhD-student families, we're looking for ways to augment our income that fall within his expertise. :) Our idea would be to offer Skype sessions on an as-needed or weekly basis, accepting payment by paypal. If you or your dc is studying a Biblical language, would you be interested in such a service? Just so you know, responding to this won't commit you to anything - it's purely for the purpose of market research. (If it looks like it would be a good idea, something might show up in the Classifieds section later. :) ) TIA! Mama Anna

That makes sense. Thanks for the tip! Mama Anna

Thanks for the info! Mama Anna

Just so you all know, we're just doing some market research - responding won't commit you to anything. I figured that the Hive would be a good place to find out if such a service would be marketable and what particular curricula are in use. :) TIA, Mama Anna

I'll try this one, not necessarily because I know what I'm talking about, but it does make a nice excuse for procrastinating from the mending . . . :) Dd10 is solidly in the Logic Stage now. We follow WTM pretty closely with her. For her, these four years are about learning to find the info herself instead of having me feed it to her, especially in history and science. I'm hoping to excite her about primary sources enough that she'll be looking forward to a third cycle through history via primary source documents in the Rhetoric Stage (high school). For science, I want her to get some of the "I wonder what would happen if I . . ." attitude that dd7 has had since she was born. And again, when she's curious about something, I encourage her to research it. I'm not sure what science will look like in high school, but whatever she delves into, I want some connections to be there - "Pluto - right, they don't call it a planet anymore. Why? Umm . . . something about a group of people getting together to make a new classification . . . ?" - so that the more thorough coverage of information she'll be studying will fit fully onto the scaffolding she's now building. I'm assuming we'll cycle through 4 years of science twice through Logic and Rhetoric. In Literature, I'm treading a balance, trying to challenge her a bit without tossing her sensitive soul into the deep end - her reading level is far beyond her emotional maturity. Writing is one of her fortes, so I want to give her the tools (grammar, vocabulary, etc.) to really take off when she hits Rhetoric. Literature-wise, dh and I have agreed that he'll take her through the Great Books when she gets there. :) Languages are another forte, so we're working through French early in hopes of (possibly, if the interest is still there) having time for her to do another MFL in high school if she wishes. Because, you know, she likes it. In math, well . . . we just keep plugging away. :) It would be nice for her to get through Trig in High School and have the time to take Calculus if she wants to. One of the things I feel strongly about for a kid her age is that she needs to have something at which she can excel, and (if possible) be recognized for it. It's even better if that hobby/talent can be used to express herself. Poetry, music, dance, writing - something that will give her the means to deal with teenage angst before it slops all over everyone around her. This is purely hypothetical, of course, because I haven't raised any teenagers yet. But it's my working theory. Dd7 is still a couple years away from Logic Stage, but I can already tell that she'll be different. (Of course!) I don't think she'll be terribly into languages, so we'll probably just try to accomplish some solid Latin and one MFL. I'm hoping that we'll be able to heavily encourage her in art and possibly STEM-type stuff. We'll see. Basically, because I want the Rhetoric Stage (high school) to be about mopping up the remnants of the basics while freeing the young adult to focus on strengths and explore content, I see the Logic Stage as a time of learning to self-feed, cementing basics, and finding some hobby to dig into. Of course, we're still mostly at the front end of the Logic Stage, so take all this for what it's worth! :) Mama Anna