I appreciate the perspective, Renai! As you can tell, my experience with foreign languages is pretty narrow and constrains my whole world view, here. Having the input of someone with more ability, background, and reference points like yourself is really helpful. Your point about how kids' engagement and learning of language is different is helpful to me as I think about my son's own language learning journey. I also find it encouraging to hear that you know a number of (non-native) families that are successfully teaching their kids a language as complex as Chinese. Informally digging around about something like Spanish alone, all I've found is a graveyard of good intentions, so it puts some winds in my sails to hear that people are indeed out there successfully helping their kids learn languages they never did. Thanks again for the input!

Everyone, thank you so much for these thoughtful and insightful responses! This board is such a tremendous resource. After digesting your posts and following up on the leads you've given me, I've decided to set aside formal phonics study for now and just focus on reading and a love of literature (though I'll still take time to review phonics and related skills as we read to the extent it doesn't bother him). Based on your experiences and points, I plan to revisit phonics later, probably through a different curriculum and program than what I've used. I suspect, as many of you have intuited, that he may be more ready and receptive at an older age and that the benefits of phonics will probably most shine through as he engages in more advanced reading. At the risk of sounding trite, thank you all again, so much!

Hi all and thanks in advance for any insight. My DS showed a strong interest in words and reading at a very young age, and when I did some research on how to help engage his interest, I became really fired up about phonics despite not learning it myself growing up. I followed an early reading simple phonics program with him at that time, and he was readily sounding out and reading CVC words at 2 and a half. Impressed with his interest and progress, I’ve kept up with phonics with him ever since, working primarily through reading.com’s app, which appears to approximate the famous Teach Your Kid to Read in 100 Easy Lessons book. He’s now pre-K age and has completed that app’s 99 lessons. To be clear, I really have had no goal for his reading. Since he seemed to be so interested, I just followed his lead and tried to help him along. I never pushed him; he’d ask to do the lessons. Now having completed a comprehensive phonics program with him, I’m honestly less impressed with phonics than I was going into this. Not trying to upset anyone who is a strong proponent, and I may just be ignorant here, but I feel misgivings about the potential it has for adding confusion. I feel like I‘ve presented to my child something as “the code” to reading, and in reality, he can only decode one in several words using his suite of learned phonics, with little to no explanation provided as to why that’s the case and why so many words don’t obey the phonics he’s learned. All of the “this is how it sounds sometimes, but other times it makes this sound” and “this word cannot be sounded out and just has to be memorized” has felt somewhat dizzying even for me, and I can’t imagine what it feels like to a new young reader. Of course, I see the other side of how confusing English might seem without the guidance of phonics, but I sometimes wonder if having it suggested that I’ve given him the answer when I’ve given anything but just makes it worse and undermines confidence even more And recently, I’ve been feeling like he’s getting frustrated and discouraged focusing on phonics and sounding words out. He stopped asking to read, and he started to rail against encouragement to try sounding words out. As a result, the past month or so I’ve dropped the focus on phonics. I still often point out ones he’s learned where present, but I don’t ever tell him to sound out a word and instead just focus on reading books he enjoys together without any pressure to work on phonics. I challenge him to read words on his own, and sometimes he just says what he thinks it is, and sometimes he tries to sound it out, but I don’t pressure him either way. He’s asking to read *much* more now, and he seems to be picking up a lot of words, probably just through sight, as a result. All of this has me wondering whether I can basically just leave emphasis on phonics behind at this point and just focus on language exposure and reading. Would I be doing him a tremendous disservice? Has anyone else essentially left phonics behind early on? Have I just botched handling his phonics learning or started it too early and need to go back? I realize he’s still young for reading, so the stakes are rather low for progress, but as long as I’m going to be the one helping him learn to read, I figure I should have a sense of direction now. Any input is appreciated—sorry for the long read!

I don’t speak Mandarin but did reach a professional level of proficiency in Japanese as a young adult, which is one of the few FSI Category 5 difficulty languages for English speakers alongside Mandarin. I’m also aware through acquaintances that Mandarin and Japanese have a number of similarities, including the fact that written Japanese uses a significant number of Chinese characters. Using that experience as my touch stone, if your child is on the fence, I’d personally steer them toward Spanish. According to FSI, it takes roughly 4x the amount of time and effort for a native English speaker to reach the same level of proficiency in a language like Mandarin as it does a language like Spanish. And that’s assuming comprehensive instruction and resources. It’s so rare that even highly motivated and well-resourced non-speakers can get their kids to become remotely proficient even in a category 1 language like Spanish. Trying to do it in a Category 5 language is truly sending your kid up Everest for their first trek down linguist lane. of course, if it’s just for fun and exposure, that’s totally fine, but if you or your child envision being on a path to actually learning the language, my opinion is that you just can’t be remotely casual about higher category languages. You’re either going to need serious, extensive immersion under a native speaker (not a guest who comes and does singalongs or one hour a week sessions or something) or be very structured and extensive with the learning and buckle up for a long journey. A large part of what drives this is that it’s hard to capture just how different the languages can be. What we might have one word for in English (like “love”) they might have 5 words for, and mixing them up is not considered a minor slip up or change in meaning. Similarly, the structure of the grammar can be totally different from English, making intuitive attempts at translation nonsensical. And that’s in addition to a ton of other structural nuance, such as meaning hinging not just on pronunciation but also on tonal changes that are often totally indiscernible to non-native speakers. In Japanese, for example, words and grammar can completely change depending on the person’s relationship to you. Saying something simple like “where is the bathroom” can be completely different (different words and grammar) depending on whether you’re asking your teacher, your boss, your classmate, or your sister—requiring significant cultural knowledge to know which to use with whom—and again, mixing these things up is very awkward even if forgiven. I’m told Mandarin has similar nuance. All to say, gradually learning set phrases and names for colors, fruits, and animals and doing apps and singalongs or the like really doesn’t inch you toward preparedness for immersion and achieving proficiency in the same way it might for a language like Spanish. For what it’s worth, for this same reason I chose not to try to teach my kid Japanese despite my prior knowledge and am instead learning (or relearning depending on what you make of my high school Spanish!) Spanish alongside him. Just my 2 cents.

Per usual, extremely insightful and helpful responses. Thank you everyone! This gives me such an excellent toolkit and framework for navigating my DS’s high energy going forward.

Great list of tools!!! Thank you, HomeAgain!

I’m embarking on homeschooling our DS first child and, probably like a lot of kids out there, he has a ton of energy. His energy and activity level stands out even on the playground among other kids his age. I love to see him teeming with life and excitement, but I also find myself wondering if his energy level will become an increasing challenge as he grows older and moves on to material that requires great levels of focus and longer periods of reflection. I have a hard time believing he’ll settle down much before adolescence. I also just wonder if I could be more creative in managing, perhaps even harnessing, his excess energy. Right now, I just make sure he gets a lot of high activity play time, and I’m very patient with him when it comes to interruptions to focused tasks. It works fine for now, and he’s very well along in his learning for his age, but I’m not sure how far this basic approach will get me. In hopes for even greater success in homeschooling him and navigating any challenge ahead, I’d love to hear any of your experiences and insights into homeschooling a very active child. I could imagine strategies ranging from incorporating lesson plans into active play to placing a stationary bike under his desk (I’ve heard of it for kids!), so I’d love to hear about what any of you have tried and actually found helpful (or not helpful). thanks so much!

I just want to thank everyone for all of the incredibly informative responses here. Such helpful points and resources. In addition to reviewing different curriculums like Math Mammoth, I'm now going back and giving myself a math bootcamp and reviewing recommended materials on teaching elementary math. Feel a lot better about the path forward after all your feedback!

This input is extremely helpful—thank you! I appreciate the encouragement and pointers. Funny point on introversion! I can’t imagine breaking into someone’s conversation, makes me ill just thinking about it. Don’t think Ive ever approached someone even with the languages I myself learned! Do you have any thoughts on how and when to engage the Deaf community, if, really, at all? On one hand, I’m sure it would be motivating and enriching for my son/me to engage as soon as possible, but on the other, I’d hate for it to be a one way street where that motivation and enrichment came with no ostensible benefit for any Deaf persons we interacted with, who would be saddled to with the presence of two novice signers and the gaze of two hearing persons who had little reason to be around. It’s occurred to me there might be volunteer opportunities or something where we might be able to give something back in exchange for the privilege of being around, I just wonder if our engagement would nonetheless come off as weird or creepy. Im probably overthinking this; I just have a hard time imagining what the dynamic would be like and I’d like to get a better sense before starting the journey. Also, duly noted about capitalizing Deaf for the meaning I was reaching for here. I went back and edited my post accordingly—thank you. I’ll definitely be incorporating cultural learning alongside any language learning. Thanks a ton for this excellent input. I will check out signit for sure, and it’s good to have lifeprint put in context since it comes up a lot. Out of curiosity, how did you find the teacher for your child? I can obviously imagine the value of having a fluent speaker to help teach, but I imagine most tutoring/direct interaction resources out there are for people who have a compelling reason to learn, and I’m not sure how appropriate it would be for us to sign up without one. I can imagine there are people out there more than happy to work with interested hearing persons like us, but I guess what I’m asking is how you find them/if there are specific resources for this. Also, in line with my remarks above, did your child ever interact with the local Deaf community? Just curious what engagement might have looked like under your circumstances and how it went for everyone involved.

I’m curious if anyone has any experience or opinions regarding teaching an elementary school age (hearing) child ASL as an additional language, particularly where the parent doesn’t know ASL and has no prior connection to the Deaf community. Among other questions I have, I’d appreciate any input on curriculum, resources, how far along (if anywhere) I might realistically be able to get learning alongside my child to teach him (I’m willing to put in the time), and any thoughts on the cultural sensitivity aspects to taking this on as a hearing family with no natural connection to the Deaf community. I’m aware of some of the cultural issues and would want to approach the entire endeavor with as much humility and sincerity as possible, but I’m not sure how it would nonetheless come across to native speakers. I would hate to do anything insolent or offensive and worry that the whole effort perhaps could be. I’d also hate to encourage my child to learn ASL if he’s destined to be in a hopelessly awkward spot in connecting with other speakers. thank you so much in advance for any input!

These replies have been so generous and helpful. Thank you, everybody! Your points are well taken, and I greatly appreciate the recommendation. I’ve heard math mammoth mentioned before, and your description makes it appealing. Do you feel it’s in any way limiting relative to something like SM or BA? That is, is it less rigorous for the sake of being more accessible? Thanks a ton for your input and perspective. It really is helpful to me! I’ve heard it mentioned before how helpful it can be, especially for the less math adept, to work through the teacher’s guide materials carefully, so this is all well taken. Thanks for the tip on the at-home activities! Thanks a bunch for this advice. Seems like a good idea and aligns with what others have said here. Just to clarify, are you recommend I do this with my child, or alone on my own time before even venturing to work with my child (or both)? I will dig into the reading recommendations! Thank you very much for this input. My son is pre k age but already show a strong proclivity for math despite zero pushing from me, which is a large part of what has prompted my concern. I want to be sure my limited math ability doesn’t limit him if his affinity sticks. Beast Academy sounds really attractive on the surface. But I’ve gotten the sense from prior discussions that BA is really only suitable for those with both grit and giftedness in math. It sounds to me like BA’s explanations don’t do as much handholding as other curriculums, so if you aren’t quick to catch on, you’re likely to fall behind. Does that match your assessment?

Hi everyone! I’ve been lurking for a while here but just posting for the first time! I know math curriculum is a common anxiety for homeschooling parents and a lot out there has already been heavily discussed on the topic (I’ve read a lot!). Nonetheless, given my sense of the stakes, I can’t help but pose my pointed to inquiry to you sages here. My apologies for any triteness! I realize there are a ton of math curriculums that do a perfectly adequate job of getting a student up to general educational standards and making them capable test takers, and they all vary in terms of difficulty, entertainment, learning style, etc. But I also know that, setting all other considerations aside, if you want to be truly excellent at something, there is often an advantaged way of learning it, a way that teaches you to fundamentally (rather than merely functionally) understand it, and once you get to the most challenging levels, if you learned any other way, you often find yourself “un” and “re” learning to get to that next level. In choosing a math curriculum, I’d like to be sure I provide my child with an excellent foundation for progressing toward any strata of quantitative excellence he desires. I’m not interested in shortcuts for becoming an excellent test taker or anything of the like; I’d really like to help supply the right raw materials for building a mathematical mind in case my child wishes ultimately to do something that requires one. I’d never want my child to have to unlearn something I taught or have to relearn with a different approach. The problem for me is that my own math knowledge and ability is poor, so I have a true challenge assessing options. (I’m currently leaning toward Singapore Math.) With that in mind, I thought I’d reach out here for experiences or insights. For those that have raised students with a curriculum, or those of you excellent at math who can better evaluate the advantages and drawbacks of different options, do you have any opinions on what curriculums stand out as either poor or excellent routes for developing the kind of understanding or math I’m trying to get at? So greatly appreciate any insight. Thank you!