I'm going to google that too...I've heard of it but never really researched it deeply. To my limited understanding it's similar to a diary or journal, but instead of being narrative it's more of a collection or encyclopedia of important, interesting, somehow valuable (as in "I want to make sure to record this because I might need this later"), or inspiring information gathered from a particular field of study or interest. I could be totally off though. :lol: I think, if it is what I think it is, this would be right up dd11's alley. She's always making little scribbles of notes in the margins of books, workbooks, and random scraps of paper she stuffs into her notebooks. I'd love to have one place she keeps all of that!

I direct a co-op that supports 80 children. Are you speaking of a true cooperative, or more of a tutorial? I'm asking because, although I personally am very careful about guiding my parents towards leading classes I feel they are well suited to teach, or guiding them to be helpers, nursery workers or hall monitors if I feel they are not experienced enough to lead classes, and asking for informal feedback from the children and teachers, they are all volunteers and I'm not sure how willing to teach they would be if they knew they were getting evaluated and critiqued by all the other parents. My teachers rely on me to monitor their classrooms and point out any issues I might see, and I field any concerns or suggestions from parents (all the parents know they can come to me with any issues they feel uncomfortable going directly to the teacher with) and then work with the teacher one on one to improve conditions. I'm not saying I believe an evaluation form filled out by parents is a bad idea...I've just never heard of it in a co-op situation where the teachers are all volunteering their time and resources. Interesting. I'll be listening in to see what the responses are! :)

We've done Zoobooks before but not Ranger Rick...I'll check that out too. I'm torn between Ask and Spider for the boy!

Cricket looks great! Thanks. :)

I'm looking for recommendations for a monthly publication for ds8, 3rd grade, and another for dd11, 6th grade. Thanks!

Critterfix - that is an excellent suggestion. Children learn by example. When my dc are doing independent work near me they work with more determination and focus if I'm working on academics as well. Today, actually, I was watching dd16's astronomy lectures so I could get ahead of her and have some meaningful conversation with her, and dd11, who could have been off doing her own thing, sat down to watch too. I told her she could go play if she wanted and she said that if I was doing school she wanted to as well. When I finished she asked if she could watch with me from now on and discuss like dd16 and I do. She never would have taken the initiative to watch those if she hadn't seen me taking the time to watch them.

I don't know that it has changed but getting my dd to believe me when I tell her she can spend her first two years figuring things out is proving to be a challenge. ;) But, maybe it has changed. I know public school Kindergarten used to be where you learned how to go to school....not anymore.

Old post thread from 2011. :)

Sounds like instead of having written a syllabus she's winging it...not good when you don't know what you're doing to begin with. I'm surprised those in charge of the co-op don't require all lead teachers to submit a class syllabus at the beginning of the semester so that the parents know what their children will be learning. Anyway - 45 minutes\16 kids - two topics. Here's how I would do it. First 10 minutes of class: Tell the kids that before you move onto the next topic you're going to finish up with biographies by having volunteers tell one thing they would want an author to include about them in a biography and why they think that thing would be important to include. Transition, 10 minutes: Tell the kids that they are going to now talk about fiction, specifically 'fun' fiction. Explain that there are all types of fiction - name off a few. Then ask a few kids what elements they think should be included to make a book 'fun'. Hopefully they will name different types of things and you can point out that different people consider different things fun. Go on from here asking for volunteers to share their sentences or (preferably) just have them share in a conversational tone what elements the author included in the book to make it 'fun'. (NOTE - if the kids just say - well it was just fun - try to get them to share examples from the book.) Next 20 minutes: take volunteers first and then if there is more time see if you can persuade any others to share. I would also write the names of the books the kids bring in on the chalk\white board so that other children could write them down if they'd like to read them. Final 5 minutes: tell the kids what a great job they did and set up the topic for the next class. I don't know if this will actually work since it's not clear if she specified fun books or not. If she didn't, then I'm not sure of what the focus of the class would be other than just the kids talking about why they liked this or that book. If that is the case then try to draw out of them specific elements the author used that made them enjoy the book. Was there a lot of imagery, action, humor, did the main character remind them of someone, was the dialog witty, etc. Good luck.....you've got your work cut out for you in salvaging this!

I'm confused on what the topic is for the next class. Fun literature, or is there some element of biography still being discussed? By the way - I'm so glad to hear that she is willing to spice this class up a bit. :)

Well, you are right that it's too early. I'd give it way more time...possibly a year or more for her education to become something she views as either a means to attain her goals, or to become something she enjoys for the sake of learning about an interest or passion. She's spent a long time in public school just getting the work done so it's going to take time for her to view it as anything else. Don't expect a love of learning to blossom just because she's homeschooled...I think many a new homeschooler is set up for frustration and a sense of failure by the myth that all homeschooled dc love to learn. When my older dc were entering middle school they simply wanted to get the majority of their work done and move onto passions that weren't academic in nature. I was completely fine with that as long as they gave their academic work 100% of their attention and did their best. There were certain subjects that they did enjoy however, and I attribute that to allowing them to pursue interests in content subjects. Dd16 did WAY more ancient history, mythology and world religions than any middle schooler needs to do and didn't really do any formal science, modern or Am. history, but she enjoyed it and I was able to give her assignments within those topics that practiced the skills she was learning in her core subjects. If I'd insisted she follow a traditional scope and sequence of content subjects for middle school she would not have enjoyed it and it would have been box checking all the way. So, talk to your dd and ask her about what she'd like to learn about then work together to research curricula, books, documentaries, classes, and other resources to make that happen. If she's involved in the choosing of topics and planning then she will hopefully take more ownership of it and enjoy it. Since you've already ordered everything then you obviously can't get her input this year but you can allow her to set the schedule for the day, determine the order she does things, allow her some freedom in altering assignments to be more interesting (instead of writing an essay allow her to make a movie, create a poster, give a presentation, etc. ) You can also help her own her education by having lots and lots of discussion. If she thinks her answer to a history question is valid but it doesn't match the answer key then talk to her about it...ask her to explain why her answer is valid, give your opinion, debate it, look for other resources that shed more light, etc. The less dc are spoon fed information and the more they are allowed to articulate their own observations, ideas or theories about their subject material the more interesting it becomes. They will come to understand that learning isn't all about shoveling information in - it's about chewing on it awhile and being able to discuss it. Middle school is the time to solidify core skills but let her explore in the content areas to see if you can spark some interests or passions. :)

Just wanted to drop back in and say thank you so much for sending your best wishes and offering advice. I've relayed all of it to her and we've talked a lot this week. She's still feeling unsure of herself but she's not depressed or panicked anymore. I've set up a tour of our local technology center and found out that our CC does offer aptitude testing for highschoolers so I will make that a priority as well. She's also had a talk with her dad about pursuing anthropology regardless of how difficult it would be to find a job in that field. They came to an understanding, and he is going to be supportive if she does decide to pursue that. :) Oh, and Kareni - your daughter is living my second oldest's dream of living and teaching in Korea! We've got 3 more years though so who knows. ;)

I think this is part of her apprehension. Those immediately around her have had the same job for almost their entire life. Dh was trained in the Air Force right out of highschool and 30 years later is still doing the exact same job...well, he now is in charge of quality for the whole lab, but it's still the same career field of PMEL. My father was in production management his entire life, my mother was a nurse....we don't have a large extended family. I need to get her in with some people who can talk to her about how they've changed career fields throughout their lives - sometimes in completely different directions. This evening we talked about time. She's panicked that the clock is ticking and she's not going to be "prepared" when she graduates. When I asked her to define "prepared" she basically said she doesn't feel like she will be prepared to be an adult. I told her that I frequently don't feel prepared to be an adult and I'm 44. :tongue_smilie: She asked what would happen if she doesn't even want to go to a 4 year college so we talked about technical schools, 2 year degrees, and about just taking some time to work. Upon mentioning that we would allow her some time to just work (and contribute to the household) she seemed to relax. I think adulthood is looming and she's just feeling very not ready.

We've already gone down the apprenticeship with a vet, working in a horse facility and with a trainer route...that's what sparked the horse science interest. She sort of fizzled out on it for awhile though. I'll talk to her again about possibly seeing about a tour of the horse science facilities at the college in our town. We also have a brand new Natural History Museum that is very homeschool friendly. I'll check them out more thoroughly to see what they might offer in the way of hands on or mentor type situations. Thanks!

Thank you for responding. It's very hard when you're dc are harder on themselves than you are.

Dd16 has, for the past 2 years, been pretty confident that she wants to go into the Air Force upon graduation. Her father was in and still works closely with the AF as a PMEL contractor so its always been a part of our lives. Dh and I told her that we would be proud of her for wanting to serve and that we thought it was a good choice for someone who isn't positive of what they'd like to do post highschool. We always tried to make sure she understood that it was by no means her only choice though. She did at one time mention wanting to get a degree in anthropology, something she is very interested in, but dh ended up discouraging her by telling her it would be difficult to get a job in that career field, especially in this area of the country. She also considered a Horse Science major, specializing in physical therapy, but again dh discouraged her since he felt it would be a long road of what he call "peon" jobs until she worked her way up. He's always quick to point out the negatives of most situations but never follows up with positives or suggestions on alternative paths...very frustrating. I, on the other hand, have always told her that if she is willing to put in the work and willing to work in the trenches for a few years, and re-locate for a job then she should shoot for whatever career field she feels drawn to. She is afraid of spending 4 years in college and going into some debt and then not be able to find a job in her career field. This town is filled with college graduates working as baristas and waitstaff. All that to give a little background information. Yesterday she came to me pretty upset (I'd noticed she's been "off" for a week or so, but when I question her she avoids talking). She finally admitted that she doesn't want to go in the AF but doesn't feel she is smart enough to go to college and isn't really sure of what she would major in anyway so is afraid it would be a waste of time and money. The career fields that I feel she is well suited to scare her because of her lack of confidence in her intelligence and motivation to do college level work. So, we usually can't even get to the point of discussing potential majors because she gets caught up on telling me how she doesn't feel smart and that it bothers her that she doesn't know how she compares to other kids her age. She doesn't like that I'm the only feedback she has on how she's doing. I explained to her that all the material she is using is designed for 11th grade so if she's doing the work then she's at 11th grade level. She doesn't believe me. She is very intelligent. I know kids who can recite facts and figures to you until they are blue in the face but they don't have a true understanding of the big picture or main ideas of those topics, nor do they have a lick of common sense....she's not like that. I'm having a hard time articulating her intelligence ... she doesn't always remember the exact time and place that the Revolutionary War began, but she can explain to you in her own words why it happened. Does that make sense? So, on a test asking for dates and names she's probably not going to do great, but if you talk to her about an event or topic or ask her to write about it then she does well. She sees her inability to memorize details as a reflection of her intelligence. I'm beginning to ramble now so I'll just cut to my questions: How do you guide a child to a career path you feel they're suited to when they lack confidence? Do you allow the potential success of them finding a job in that career field sway your advice to them? How do you help a child who feels dumb see themselves as you do when they don't trust that you are being un-biased? Any other advice based on the ramblings above? She's my oldest so I'm in completely uncharted water here and I'm beginning to panic a bit.

OneStepAtATime - I'll just add - great co-ops are built by great parents who are willing to put in the time and effort required to provide fun, engaging, group classes that can't be duplicated at home with one, two of three children. They provide amazing enrichment experiences, community and friendships for your dc and for yourself - not just classes. These co-ops have a set of standards for their classes and aren't afraid to ask volunteer teachers to move into other areas of helping when their classes don't meet these standards. Unfortunately, often times those parents who would be amazing teachers, and could help a good co-op become a great co-op get turned off within the first few classes by bad or mediocre teachers and instead of stepping in to try to improve the situation or step up to teach themselves, they bale. When all the exceptional parent\teachers leave then you're left with a pathetic co-op. I tell my new members all the time that if they expect to have a good experience from our co-op they need to give as much as they expect to get. I commend you for being willing to put yourself out there to try to improve the class versus just cutting your loses and running. It may not work out for this particular class, but hopefully your vision for creating an engaging class experience will be heard and you could help set the new standard for this co-op. :)

I think your ideas sound great although to grab the kid's attention and focus on the actual topic of genre, I might choose a person(s) they all know....maybe an author, inventor, or scientist, actor or athlete they've all at least heard of. I could be totally off on that but, in my experience with teaching groups of kids often the familiar is a better plate for serving new information. I might just start with just the ideas you have above until you see how receptive she is to you adding to her class. No sense in you spending a lot of time brainstorming for other classes if she insists on continuing down her path of boredom and despair. ;) You'll have to post to let us know her response! Good luck!

I understand. :) If you do plan on having your dc take AP exams then I would take a look at what is on those exams and then look at the material you are using to see if it covers the same topics\skills that they will need to know to do well on the test. I wouldn't teach to the test, but you could choose material or add material to make sure your child would be prepared. Going back to your original question about learning well without textbooks...sometimes a text book might be the best choice for your child in any given subject, but I don't think that a text book is always going to be the best choice, and from my experience there are certain situations that I think they could actually be detrimental to learning.

Oh gosh....I'm really sorry. That sounds miserable. I'm assuming this person is new too? I think, since there are only 4 more classes, I would take the leap and email to ask what concept or topic she was going to be teaching next and ask if she would mind if you brought in some books. Maybe bringing in appropriate books and then letting the kids look through them for a few minutes at the end of the class to see if they can determine the difference between the autobiography and the biography. Or, for the "fun" books class just bring in a really fun, short book and spend 10 minutes at the beginning or end of class to read through the book. I'm not sure, based on how she's teaching how you could salvage the class. :( My concern about not saying anything to anyone would be that, if you are going to remain with this co-op, you are likely to have your dc in a class she volunteers to teach again. Sounds like someone needs to find somewhere else in the co-op to utilize her...in the nursery, hall monitor, bathroom clean-up, helper in another class, etc. ;)

Well, my state doesn't require yearly testing and I don't do any type of standardized testing except for ACT in highschool. If you have to test for state requirements then what I have to say probably isn't going to be very helpful, but I'll give it a shot. You say that you want to make sure your dc are actually learning and that you often think that they will only learn if they are tested. I'm guessing that you mean you feel that unless they're tested they won't make an effort to learn the material. I suppose there might be dc out there that do need the motivation to do well on a test in order to learn the material ... I don't have those types of dc though so I can't really speak to that. My dc learn certain things to gain knowledge in areas that interest them, and they learn certain things so that they have skills to eventually live on their own and function as an adult (basic math, basic grammar, the skill to verbalize and write concisely and clearly, reading skills, logical thinking, the ability to analyze and interpret data presented in basic formats, an understanding of the big picture of world and Am. history, an understanding of basic science, etc.). Once they choose a field of study that they would like to pursue after high school then they also focus learning the skills and knowledge in that area. While my dc are not at all super academic or have a deep love of learning for learning's sake they do learn what I tell them they should (because they trust me) and what they want to (because they find it fulfilling). If I had a dc that would only learn with the threat of a test hanging over their head then I would probably take a hard look at how and what I was teaching to determine if there was some way that I could make their education more enjoyable for them. In regards to knowing what they're learning without a test to tell me - I know they are learning because I'm the one teaching them, I'm the one looking at their output, and I'm the one having discussions with them. When I notice struggles, gaps, or mis-understandings then I address them and continue to address them until I'm satisfied with the outcome. Also, I research the material I use for my dc and I make sure that it covers the scope and sequence of what I know my dc need to learn by approximate times during my dc's educational years (whether that be an online program, textbook, literature based program, or living books that I've pulled together myself). If we work through that material to my standards then I don't need a test, but if my dc did have to take one then I would be confident that the material I chose would adequately prepare them. I hope that helps a bit.

How exactly are you comparing them? I know the online history that 2 of my dc are using this year seems to not have as much meat as a 2 inch thick textbook, but when I compare topic by topic it is covering the same number of topics ... almost the exact same topics. The online version's text is definitely more concise, and it has lectures for much of the material versus all text. The big difference for me though is taking into consideration how much my dc are able to get out of the textbook versus the online program. Textbooks are dull. I'd rather sacrifice a few details or tidbits of information and have the material presented in a more engaging way. Also, I don't put a lot of stock in tests and quizzes for content subjects. I'm more interested in getting my dc engaged in the story of the people, places and events that make up our history ... not memorizing info to pass a test (and I'm even speaking of my older dc)....so I might not be the best person to answer your question. :P

I never had luck with giving my Kinesthetic child something to simply occupy her hands since she would inevitably get distracted by that something and loose focus on what I was teaching. I ended up having to focus on incorporating movement into what she was learning....the movement of body and hands was part of the learning. So, using manipulatives during math, using word blocks or word cards during grammar or having her write sentences or diagramming on white boards, of coarse science and history were lots of hands on projects and experiments. She had to DO in order to learn. One activity that wasn't directly related that would help her listen was rocking or swinging. She also says that chewing helps her focus...I don't know if that's true for all kinesthetics or just her. She's 15 now and has trained herself to be able to focus for longer periods of time without needing that constant movement and touching incorporated into her learning, but she does take FREQUENT breaks to get up and move around, take a walk, stretch, etc. I'm talking like every 20 minutes. If she works for longer than 20 minutes without taking a break to move around she doesn't retain a thing.

I would be concerned that anything that you give them is going to draw their attention away from her boring lecture. Is there no way that you could constructively suggest she engage the children in conversation or discussion versus just lecturing? Could she give them all a printout of her key points and go around the room having each child read those aloud...or better yet ask questions leading them to the key points and have kids come up and write them on the board? Lecturing about literature seems like a sure path to make those dc dislike reading. I've taught several literature classes and one of the favorite activities is to print out questions on slips of paper and have the children take turns pulling a strip, reading it and then answering it. I would ask questions about the plot, setting, characters, and so on. I'd also include questions about literary elements and would throw in silly questions or commands too (silly things like quack like a duck, what's your favorite planet, name all the characters in StarWars, etc.) to keep them all excited to draw another slip of paper. They'd get all the same info I could have given them in a lecture but it was so much more engaging and they remembered it. Perhaps you could ask her permission to just "test" it for one class. Good luck...sounds like a difficult situation to be in. :(

Seems a recurring opinion is that homeschooling is still stressful but in a different way. I would have to wholeheartedly agree with this. Ps was a maddening, unavoidable, despairing type of stress. Almost what I would label as insanity ... you know, doing the same thing over and over the same way but expecting different results? That seemed to be the mindset of those in authority that I encountered in the system. I remember often feeling as if I were in some surreal, twilight zone because everyone was nodding when I would speak about concerns but then once their back was turned I apparently never existed. At the time I pulled my dc out I was on anxiety meds and one dd had severe abdominal\bowel issues from stress and nerves. Once I got them home and started dealing with 2nd dd's behavioral, emotional, and LD issues it was a completely different kind of stress - the type of stress that comes from worrying about the well being of a loved one and worrying that you're doing the right thing for them....BUT it was manageable and I could actively change things that weren't working to try to resolve the stress. If it became too much I could put all the curricula away and take a week or two off to refresh and reconnect. Now, years and years later, I would say my stress level is extremely low, especially this year. Other things in my life create more stress than homeschooling does. :P Homeschooling for us has finally become one of those things that just gets done without too much fuss or drama. :)