I think I'll do that. That sounds much better than us continuing to beat our heads against the wall for now! Just play some games or do a few pages of SM1 which she thinks is fun. Thanks, Tara. Thanks, Heather. Mary

The facts are not the problem. Really what seems to be the problem is she feels that she ought to be able to do the problems without using the abacus--she thinks she has "outgrown" it and resists using it. She did a few problems with the abacus fine, but when she decides she doesn't want to use the abacus she invariably forgets to count the carry when adding the next column. And the problems that have answers in the 10,000's really mess with her! I have tried a few tricks to make the abacus more palatable to her like having her "teach" a beanie baby or littlest pet shop what to do. She's coming at math now with the attitude that it's too hard and she starts whining when we get out the book. Not real sure what to do about it! thanks. Mary

Is it important to master 4 digit addition in this level? We are plodding slowly through it and dd gets it..sort of. She does not like it and I can't help feeling that this would be better just tasted at this time and returned to later. This is the first real stumbling block we've hit with this curriculum, and I don't want her to start disliking math. thanks. Mary

Hi Stephanie, Recently there was a thread on here about what if you love R&S but your dc don't! I personally love R&S, dd didn't. I think CLE is as good as R&S as far as content. R&S is definitely better organized. But CLE is much easier for dd to use independently. CLE is in workbook format and reviews more often. Dd likes it better than R&S, and I know she's retaining what she learns since she can apply the grammar and diagramming to her CW lessons. In fact, I think her retention has gotten better since using CLE. I had thought about switching back to R&S for 8th; but after looking through CLE again, I've decided to stick with it into high school. And again, I'll thank Michelle ;-) for encouraging us to try it! HTH Mary

I don't know if you want to look at Wheelock's. It's definitely grammar based. Dd (7th) started it at the beginning of this school year. She had a good Latin background already from using GP 1 and 2. It's gone well. We'll finish through about chapter 20. My plan is to have her do 2 yrs of high school Latin before 9th and count it on her transcript. Mary

A little different take. Ds took chem at an "academy for home schoolers" for lack of a better name. They used Apologia there. But my main purpose was to have ds write lab reports for someone other than dh or me. Chem seemed like the subject to accomplish that. Mary

Tara, I think you should post this on the high school as well. Mary

We have always used a separate grammar program with CW. Dd is in Diogenes Maxim this year. We have used R&S and now CLE. At some point CW recommends Harvey's, but we never used that. We never tried to plan the grammar lessons according to what was being covered in CW grammar exercises. If something comes up in CW that we have not studied to that extent in grammar, we use the CW core manual to get up to speed so we can get through the CW grammar exercise. It's been a while since Aesop, but I don't recall any real systematic spelling. We always used a separate spelling program as well. HTH and good luck! Mary

I would say that if you've studied something like R&S grammar up through 8th, there isn't really anything new. I do believe, however, that kids need to keep reviewing it through high school. And they need to apply it sometimes to complex sentences in their reading (kinda CW style.) We won't be doing year round grammar after 8th. Dd will be using CLE for 9th and 10th. CLE does appx 1 semester of grammar in each if those years. After that we will use Stewart English for review. My $.02 Mary

We used AO LifePacs. Mary

CherylG's ds-UCLA, graduated, UCSB, UCSD, Westmont, all accepted. UMD-attending for master's in engineering. CherylG's dd-SBCC school of nursing-graduated. Creekland's ds - Covenant College, Union University, Calvin College - all acceptances at this point. Deb in NZ's dd - Bay of Plenty Polytechnic (begin Feb 2010) dkholland- ds - Covenant College (accepted), Patrick Henry College (accepted) Grove City College Gwen in VA -- Washington & Lee (attending); acceptances from U Chicago, U Pitt, U Dallas, U Delaware, Hillsddale, UVA, William & Mary, College of Wooster, Case Western Kate in FL-ds-Cornell University (accepted Early Decision so all other apps had to be withdrawn) Katia - ds- Ellsworth Community College (AA Computer Science) , Anderson University-attended , University of Northern Iowa (BA Computer Science), Kansai Gaidai University, Kyoto, Japan-attended Katia - dd#1- Hilldale College-attending , accepted at: Luther College, Ball State University, University of Northern Iowa, Oberlin College Conservatory of Music Katia- dd#2 - applying to: Hillsdale College , Warner University (accepted) LaJuana - dd#1 University of Dallas - graduated Summa cum Laude. Also accepted to Hillsdale. LaJuana - ds#1 University of Dallas - graduated Summa cum Laude. Also accepted to Hillsdale. Attending Westminster Theological Seminary (MDiv). LaJuana dd#2 Attending Oklahoma City University Bass School of Music (Musical Theatre and Vocal Performance). Also accepted at Samford University (AL), Whitworth University (WA), George Fox University (OR), Covenant College (GA), Houghton College (NY), Oklahoma Christian University. LaJuana ds#2 Attending Whitworth University. Also accepted at University of Dallas. (Except for dd majoring in MT and VP, my dc knew where they wanted to go, applied to two schools only, and were accepted at both.) Laughing Lioness - DS -Boyce College (KY) attending. Accepted to Augustana College (SD) and St. Mary's School of Nursing (SD). Lisa in TN's dd - Vanderbilt University - attending. Liza Q's dd - Saint Francis College - attending. Kings College, St. John's University, Brooklyn College - accepted Margaret in CO--dd accepted to Western State College for dual credit, accepted to Hillsdale College, graduated, accepted to CU Boulder School of Music, finishing Master's Margaret in CO--dd accepted to Western State College for dual credit, accepted to USNA, attending finishing Firstie Year, accepted to flight school, acceptances: Hillsdale College, USAFA, USCGA, ERAU (on NROTC), School of Mines Margaret in CO--dd accepted to Western State College for dual credit I'm going to stick my should-have-been-son-in-law (killed last spring), accepted to Hillsdale College, transferred to WVU, graduated, accepted to Toledo Medical College. Mary in GA ds: Clayton State University (attended & transferred) Georgia Tech (attending) Michelle in GA ds- University of Georgia (accepted); Berry College (accepted); Georgia Tech (currently attending) Moira in MA dd -- Acceptances at Dalhousie U (Nova Scotia), McGill U (Montreal) Mommyfaithe's dd #1 (accepted College of St. Rose (NY) attended Sage College Albany, NY Graduated Summa Cum Laude Mommyfaithe's dd#2 Attending Russell Sage College. Accepted SUNY New Paltz, SUNY Albany, waiting to hear from Simmons College in Boston Mass. MSPolly's dd- Acceptances at Covenant(TN), Union U(TN), U of MS, Belhaven U(MS) Osmosis Mom Dd 1, Wellesley College (attending), accepted to Merrimack College, BU, Simmons, Emmanuel College Sharon in MD's ds-Drexel University -attending; UMBC-Meyerhoff program, UMD-College Park-College of Engineering, Messiah College- acceptances Susann-dd-Rose-Hulman, Purdue, University of Evansville, Trine, Taylor, Cedarville-acceptances Susie-Knits ds1 - Rose-Hulman, Valparaiso, U of Evansville, TN Tech - acceptances TransientChris's DS- George Mason U,attending; Hillsdale College- attended, Abilene Christian, Hampden-Sydney, St. Olaf- accepted Valerie(TX) - ds UT Arlington attended Valerie(TX) - dd accepted Biola (CA), Messiah (PA), Belhaven (MS), Mary Baldwin College (VA), UTA (TX), Hardin-Simmons (TX), Univ. of Mary Hardin-Baylor (TX), and Ouachita (AR). I'm missing one. ?? Outtamyshell - BYU Provo

We never did them. We got in plenty of other writing. I don't think you're missing anything important if you skip them! Mary

OK. Dd is in 7th. We used SM through 6th, and I decided that we would do the first few chapters of NEM1 for pre-algebra then move into Foerster's Alg 1. Well here it is March and we are only on chapter 7 of NEM1 and I feel like we're behind. I had used NEM1 with first ds and ditched it somewhere during ch 5, because I thought he was making way too many errors and that it was just too hard. Ds went on to do Foerster's all the way through calc with a break for JAcob's geometry. I was planning to do the same thing with dd. HOWEVER, NEM is beginning to click with dd (and me too.) I was never intending to continue for several reasons including lack of proofs and other things like graphing. I began searching this board and came up with Nan in Mass' post about NAM that goes with NEM 3 & 4. Well, so now I'm not sure. ALso, I saw on their website a grading scale that made me think we really weren't doing too badly. We own all the Foerster books we would need. This road has been traveled with good results. Dh does the upper level math and physics around here, so I would have to get him to look at NEM 3 to see if he would want to teach it. I will be toast after 2. Foerster seems to break down explanations into smaller chunks. NEM gives you a couple of example of a concept, very pithy explanations, and then really expects you to extrapolate. I'm intimidated by doing an integrated math program, even though that's what my state has gone to for high school now (the texts are pretty abysmal.) I have looked at the description on the SM website, and it's still hard to tell what the NEM series translates into in terms of a traditional sequence. Also, I'm concerned about the lack of a solution manual after level 2. I'm sure dh can handle it, but solution manuals are good. I guess what I'm asking for here is any advice or encouragement or discouragement that I can get here! I need to decide soon. If I'm going to switch to Foerster's, I will do it this month since that book is a lot to complete in one year. If we decided to continue with NEM, I consider us locked in as I think it would be really tough to transition back into a traditional track. Thanks for all your patience in sorting through this! Mary

DO you have dual enrollment available as an option? I found that AP courses were often 1 yr long and student would only get 1 semester of college credit after testing. Colleges have different standards as to what AP score they will accept for credit. One large U here only takes only a 5 on AP chem for a semester's credit. They accept transfer credit from the smaller U ds attended, but you have to take both the 101 and the 102 courses to get that one semester of credit. Either way the student is taking a year of course work, but getting that 5 would be a whole bunch of pressure. You can also research in advance what U's would take the transfer credit from the CC or other local U. From ds's and my point of view the dual enrollment path seemed less time intensive. And I really think in some case the actual college course ends up being a little easier than the AP class. Just my $.02. Good luck with your decisions! Mary

No. We are not required to do the state standardized testing that the public school kids do, so we don't have to worry about which science and history topics they are covering in what grade. We meet our standardized testing requirements by taking the IOWA test. Mary

I'm still looking for those neat, logical little boxes! Sure it's doable. When my oldest was in high school, I kept next dd in the same time period even though there is 6.5 years between them. Dd is in 7th now doing ancients. Last one, a 1st grader, will actually be in a position to do the whole 4 yr. cycle 3 times if we want. Once the 7th grader has completed the 4 yr cycle in 10th, we probably won't start over with ancients in 11th. I'm envisioning something more like a history survey for review and a more intensive literature study. Possibly joint enrollment like her big brother did in 11th or 12th. Some years we used TOG. Other years it was more free form. But the idea of doing more than one time period at a time was too much for me. I don't multitask well. Mary

Yes, download the placement test. I think think topics covered are comparable, it's just the order that would be really different. CLE reviews enough that I think even if you just switched into it say with the Light Unit you would be using at this point in the school year had you started with CLE, your dc could catch on to topics not covered yet. We are using CLE 7 and since I elected not to use Light Unit 707, a book study, dd does it 4 days per week. Otherwise it would've been 5 days/wk. Mary (who has never before attempted to multi-quote!)

I agree CLE isn't as logically arranged as R&S where you typically have a chapter devoted to sentence skeletons, nouns, verbs, adjs, advs, etc. I like the organization of r&s a lot. But like I said, dd really likes CLE, and it is definitely getting the job done well so I can't complain. We use R&S as a reference. For that CLE is totally useless! Mary

We had a serious issue with this when ds was a freshman a the U where he did dual enrollment. They had a newly built dorm they wanted occupied and were requiring ALL freshman to live in it regardless of proximity to campus. We live less than 30 miles away. The end result was that ds had to enroll part-time as opposed to full-time. That was the only out. Not a huge deal in the end but we perceived it a serious obstacle at the time blocking his goals to transfer in a timely manner. Full time freshman were required to live in the dorm. Just paying for it and not occupying it was not an option for us. If that is what you are considering, I see nothing ethically wrong with that. Housing contracts are typically for a year and there are plenty of midyear dropouts who are still required to pay even though they have vacated. Check with the school for exemptions. In our case there were none. I can't recall a time when I ever have been so angry as when I was dealing with this situation. I actually dissolved into tears to my extreme embarrassment when talking with the dean. Ds was very sweet (younger dd who had to come along was totally mortified) and in the end it all worked out! Possibly TMI here. Sorry. Good luck. Mary

Python is an excellent teaching language. Very similar to C++/C# but much easier to use. Less picky. And it's free! There are some inexpensive books available for learning Python. If dd becomes very interested in programming, modding video games is a great way to pursue that interest. Civilization is written in Python and has a huge and supportive modding community. Agree totally with titianmom, Linux is a great platform. It also is free. My ds works at his university (Ga Tech) and does tons of programming in the Linux platform. You may also want to look at JAVA. Very widely used. Mary

Hi Patty, Have your girls tested before? What are their ages? Honestly, if funds are tight and nothing is riding on the outcome, I'd skip test prep books. I bought an IOWA test prep book last year when dd was in 6th b/c I was worried about the reading comprehension exercises since we had never done any book work like that. It proved to be totally unnecessary. Your first round of testing is great practice for future testing, and each section of the test has a sample exercise where you can supervise filling in the bubbles. Mary

I have to second the CLE suggestion. Your dc are young, and I have to say I've not used CLE at those grade levels. I used R&S with my dd until this year (7th) when I decided I wanted something she could use more independently. I took Michelle's recommendation and went with CLE. It really is very similar to R&S in scope and sequence for grammar (not writing), but it's more kid friendly in that it introduces new material a bit more incrementally and gently and provides more review. This may not suit all, but it was much easier for dd to do totally independently. The explanations in R&S 7 and 8 seem to get a bit drier and more lengthy and difficult to follow. Dd had begun approaching it by going directly to the exercises then backtracking to the examples if she became uncertain or got stuck. I had originally intended to switch back to R&S for 8th, but I have decided to let dd continue with CLE. I feel confident that CLE is getting the job done because dd does very well on her CW diagramming assignments! I LOVE R&S, but for me CLE is a very acceptable substitute! HTH. Mary

Kathie, if she doesn't answer here, try the K-8 board, Heather in VA has a dd doing Herodotus on line. She answered some of my questions about Herodotus a day or so ago. Mary

No, we were using Classical Composition, and I had to put that down after I don't remember which level because I just didn't get it. And I have to credit Jean in WI for putting me on to the D'Angelo book. Also, the ds I'm referring to is 19 and a jr in college. This was before CW had levels for high school. I use CW with remaining dc now, oldest being in 7th grade. How old is your ds? If I was beginning progym with an upper level high schooler, say 10th or 11th, if he already had some background in logic and pretty good writing skills, I'd choose the D'Angelo book. I have the Corbett book as well, and at the time, for what I felt we needed to accomplish in the limited time we had left in home school, the Corbett book was way too much. D'Angelo was straight forward and fairly engaging. Mary