Jump to content

Menu

Nichola

Members
  • Posts

    78
  • Joined

Reputation

138 Excellent

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. That’s actually what I’ve been considering for next year—moving DD5 to BA and keeping DD8 in MWC.
  2. After thinking some more, I decided to change the title of this post and my question. Writing it out helped me to realize that my inability to choose a math curriculum for DD5 isn’t about math. It’s just a side effect of my bigger worry, which is how to handle DD8’s learning differences and her relationships with her siblings. I think DS10 and DD5 are both gifted. Math and reading come easily to them, and DD5 is probably going to overtake DD8 in one or both subjects at some point. We are still looking into testing for DD8, but I think she probably has some combination of ADHD and dyslexia or visual processing disorder. In all honesty I think she’s probably 2E, gifted and learning disabled. We’re using AAR, and she’s progressed a lot this year in reading ability. She’s doing math at her grade level. But I don’t think she’s ever going to be advanced the way her siblings are. I would never say that to her, and I’ve never drawn her attention to the fact that school is harder for her. She’s getting older, though, and she’s beginning to notice things on her own. She is more observant than her siblings and also very sensitive. She knows that DD5 is ahead in math compared to where she was at 5. She knows that DS10 was reading harder books when he was her age. When DD8 has mentioned this, I’ve emphasized that all of them have different talents and abilities and that there are things she is better at than her siblings. That makes her feel better, but I still feel worried that this is just the beginning of a long-term problem. Has anyone else experienced this situation—a child with learning challenges sandwiched between gifted siblings? How did you handle the emotional needs of the child with learning disabilities while still allowing the siblings to progress at the faster rate that they needed? Are there things I can do now while they are young to make this easier as time goes on? I know there are other boards for learning challenges and accelerated learners, but I didn’t know which of them to choose for this situation.
  3. In my area, most people are using either TGTB or Abeka. It does surprise me how little thought many parents seem to give to their curriculum choices. For a while I assumed this was because I live in a lower SES area and moms might have fewer resources for researching curriculum. But then I came across a homeschooling thread in a Facebook group for moms in my STEM field, and they were also saying things like, “My sister uses TGTB, so I use it too.” Out of the dozens of responses to that thread, I was the only one who mentioned that there were different types of reading and math curricula and that your choice might depend on your kid. Everyone else was just using what a friend or relative had recommended to them. Maybe it goes back to the old marketing advice that word of mouth is the best advertisement.
  4. We use written narration for this. The child tells the story in his own words, including any insights or connections he made. Comprehension questions are a way for classroom teachers to evaluate students because they don’t have the time to talk to each student individually. As such, they often fall into a few categories: 1. They ask overly simplistic questions with one right answer to ensure that the child read the story. 2. They direct the child into reducing a complex story to a single moral. 3. They tell the child that a character made a bad choice and then ask the child what he would have done in that character’s shoes. Maybe the child would’ve made the same choice? He isn’t going to tell the teacher that! 4. They claim to be “going deep” when they’re really just asking questions that are over the child’s head. I’ve seen questions in elementary literature guides that could be thesis topics. This is not an exhaustive list, just a few types of commonly asked bad questions. All of these questions lead to the child looking for “the right answer,” what she thinks the teacher wants to hear, which, at the very least, doesn’t produce good writing, if that is the goal. The best comprehension questions I’ve seen in literature guides are things like “Describe the cottage” or “Describe Jill.” But those are likely to come up naturally in a narration, and if they don’t, they’re easy enough to ask. They aren’t the sort of questions you need a literature guide for. I agree with you that writing prompts about the child’s own experiences don’t typically lead to good writing. I think asking them to write about something they’re interested in is better. I would consider that to be separate from writing about literature though. For literature, I think narration is usually the best route because the child is just describing things, not looking for correct answers or trying to make judgements on things he doesn’t fully understand. In An Experiment in Criticism, CS Lewis talks about how good readers are able to enter into a story, set aside their judgments, and receive the story as it is. That way they aren’t seeing things in the story that aren’t really there, such as their own biases. I think most comprehension questions are doing the opposite. They are directing the child to make certain judgments or simplifications to the story. That doesn’t produce good readers or good writers.
  5. Yes. I’m not advocating literary analysis for elementary ages. I’m saying the opposite, that you should just read the books and talk about them, mostly with narration. The books I’m recommending are for parents to educate themselves so they don’t feel that they need to buy literature guides from curriculum companies, not because I think they should be teaching literary criticism to elementary children. It’s the same concept as learning upper level math so you can teach your young children better. You aren’t going to teach them high school math (unless they’re very gifted), but you will be able to teach the basics better because you understand where the subject is headed. It also gives parents more confidence in making curriculum choices. Thanks for mentioning this. I added a note above so that hopefully others will better understand my intent.
  6. As people are making curriculum choices for next year, I’ve seen some questions about literature guides. If you’re on the fence about whether to buy them, as many parents seem to be, I want to reassure you that it is ok to not use literature guides in the elementary years (or ever—but I’ll focus on elementary-age kids here). I think many parents sense that literature guides are not instilling a love for literature in their kids—they may even feel that the guides are pushing their kids away from a love of reading—but they worry that they don’t know enough about literature to teach their kids on their own. I’m going to offer a bit of unsolicited advice—don’t let curriculum companies play on your insecurities. You don’t have to have an English degree to teach your child literature, and you don’t have to use literature guides either. I think many people understand that math curricula that push algorithms and memorization are not typically going to develop a love of math or a deep understanding of it in a student. Literature guides (at least the ones I’ve seen, and I’ve looked around quite a bit) are the equivalent of algorithm-based math. They will not help your child love books or develop a deep understanding of stories. Elementary-age kids do not need to understand a lot of literary terms. They need to read (or hear) lots of stories so they learn to love books and understand how stories work. Rather than using literature guides, it’s ok to just read the books and discuss them. By discussion, I don't mean teaching them literary analysis. I mean talking about what happened in the story and whether it reminded them of other stories they've read. This can be at a very basic level. However, I think some parents worry that they can't talk about books at even a basic level because they didn't get a great education in literature themselves. I want to encourage those parents that they can develop their own knowledge without literature guides or pricey teaching courses. Here are some books that have helped me to educate myself about literature. I want to emphasize that these books are for parents to improve their own understanding of literature, not for them to discuss with their elementary-aged children. Kids just need to read and narrate. But if you're wanting to learn more about literature for your own benefit, these books may be helpful. C.S. Lewis was regarded as the most well-read person of his time, and many people forget that he was primarily an academic and that his roles as theologian and fiction writer were secondary to that. His scholarly essays and books were a good starting point for me. An Experiment in Criticism by CS Lewis Tending the Heart of Virtue by Vigen Guroian The Educated Imagination by Northrop Frye Hard Times by Charles Dickens On Fairy-Stories by JRR Tolkien How to Read the Bible as Literature by Leland Ryken A Preface to Paradise Lost by CS Lewis (I’m rereading this one right now, and it has a lot of information about epic poetry in general, not just Paradise Lost.) Another helpful book when it comes to discussing literature with your children is Know and Tell by Karen Glass. I know I’ve recommended that book here several times, but if you want to break away from workbooks and literature guides, this is the best resource I’ve seen on how to do that. I hope my post is seen in the spirit that it is intended—as a genuine desire to help in an area where many parents seem confused and overwhelmed. I think many of us are here on the forum because the spirit of classical education appeals to us, but much of that beauty gets lost in our modern culture’s attempts to systematize education, and, sadly, many classical curriculum companies play into that because they sell what we are used to: step-by-step packages that provide knowledge in bite-sized pieces. If that’s all we know, that’s all we will seek, even if we sense that something is amiss. But I want to encourage parents that there are alternatives out there, and that you can teach your child about beautiful literature without a guide or a degree.
  7. I haven’t used any of these but just wanted to throw out the suggestion that you could take the elements you like of each curriculum and create your own. You could start with the areas where there is overlap among the curricula, the books that are recommended by more than one of the book lists you are looking at, and go from there. The temptation in doing this (at least for me) is to want to do it all, so I have to be realistic about what we can actually accomplish in a year. But creating your own curriculum could lessen your FOMO, along with removing the elements in each of these that you already know you don’t like or don’t want to do.
  8. I think this is a good point, although I’ve never seen it mentioned in the Memoria Press materials we’ve used. What are the classroom teachers adding to the lessons? Are the extras recommended by MP, or are the teachers coming up with them on their own? Perhaps I’m missing some context—maybe the “fun” materials were inferior because they had poor-quality content and the girl was doing well to recognize that—but minus that sort of detail, I don’t view this story as illustrating a positive attribute in a child. Rather, it reminds me of Eustace Scrubb in the Narnia books. I think it might be helpful to define “joy-sucking.” What I mean by that is material that focuses primarily on facts without room for creativity or imagination. An example would be a math book that focuses only on procedural learning, algorithms and memorization, without room for playing with concepts. All of the problems in each lesson are worked exactly the same way. It’s math without the beauty. Another example would be a grammar curriculum that only provides stilted sentences as exercises for students, and never shows the complex language that would be seen in a well-written book. I think it’s fine to use a more “stilted” sentence as an introduction to the concept, but when all of the exercises in the lesson are simply variations on that same sentence, where is the beauty of language? Personally I do not think the final question comes down to what a child knows at the end, but to how much they care about what they know. Yes, hard work and memorization are important aspects of education, but what do those matter if the child has never had her imagination captured by any of it? Please don’t misconstrue what I’m saying—I understand that test scores and challenging classes can be important for getting into college and finding employment. But if those things, in and of themselves, are the ultimate end-goal, what kind of adult will that produce? Charles Dickens explores this idea in his book Hard Times. Does every single aspect of a child’s education have to be joyous and imaginative? Of course not. That would be impossible. But should we try to introduce them to beauty where we can? I think it’s a worthy goal. My concern with “joy-sucking” materials is that if a child only sees those sorts of “facts without beauty” lessons for a single subject, year after year, they will never develop an enjoyment or appreciation for that subject. I think this could be why many adults dislike math and grammar—they were only taught the facts about them and were never introduced to their playful or creative sides.
  9. If you’re interested in narration, I highly recommend Karen Glass’s book Know and Tell. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about narration, and this book explains the process of narration as CM intended it, along with appropriate expectations for different age groups.
  10. We’ve used Latina Prima. It was okay, though somewhat dry and boring. We ditched the workbook pretty quickly but continued with the videos and flashcards. We’ve also used Minimus and University of Dallas’s Latin Through Stories, and we found both of those to be far more enjoyable. I think we’ve retained the most with Latin Through Stories. It uses songs and stories but no workbook. (Edited for accuracy: Latin Through Stories does have an optional workbook for older kids, but we haven’t used it yet.) I bought some used MP literature guides a couple of years ago, thinking they might be helpful for vocabulary, etc. But I found them to be exactly as you described: joy-sucking. I don’t use any literature guides now—just read and narrate. I find that our discussions are better when we’re talking about something the kids have noticed on their own instead of trying to answer someone else’s scripted questions. I do like to look at MP’s book lists though. The books they choose are typically well-written and engaging.
  11. I haven’t used those specific editions of Singapore, so I can’t answer your question exactly. I am using Primary 2022 right now, though, and I would say that, for this edition, I’ve found the teacher’s guide to be much more helpful than the HIG. It’s in color, and it has pictures of the student’s pages in the book, which is nice for teaching lessons. It also explains the concepts better and shows the progression of skills that are being taught. I found the Primary 2022 HIG to be essentially an answer key, without much guidance for the parent. I know the editions vary, though, so maybe others will weigh in on their experiences with those you mentioned. If you’re struggling with teaching Singapore math in general, though, there is a book written for teachers that you may find helpful, regardless of which Singapore edition you use. It’s called Elementary Mathematics for Teachers. It goes through the major concepts taught in elementary math and explains different approaches to teaching each concept. I think it is helpful for teaching any math curriculum, but it is specifically geared toward Singapore math. It is a little expensive to buy new, but I found a used copy that was reasonably priced. https://www.amazon.com/Elementary-Mathematics-Teachers-Thomas-Parker/dp/0974814008/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=216CSJVUTAO4H&keywords=elementary+mathematics+for+teachers&qid=1702984836&sprefix=elementary+mathematics+f%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-1
  12. I bought some 12 x 16 cloth bags on Amazon one year, and they’ve been the perfect size for picture books. They’re reusable and easy to put out every year. My kids take turns choosing a book each day leading up to Christmas. Another Christmas tradition we have is reading Tolkien’s Letters from Father Christmas. We spread it out over the month of December and read a letter each day.
  13. If you listen to podcasts, Susan Wise Bauer’s new podcast “The Well-Trained Mind” had an episode this week about copywork and how it leads to better writing. They also talked a bit about narration.
  14. I would consider summarization that includes personal thoughts to be narration. I’m not sure that we’re disagreeing so much as using different terminology. I think I understand your italicized point for high school, but I also can see how longer essays could spring from a narration or summary. How do you assign essays? Are they based on your kids’ discussions or summaries about what they’re learning? I agree with you that following AO exactly as written is not in the best interest of many kids, although I have found their website helpful for organizing myself and choosing books. I use it as a resource, for inspiration, but I do that with several other curricula too, some that are CM and some that aren’t. Then I choose the books I think will work best for my kids in my homeschool. I find that following any particular curriculum to the letter is rather stifling and doesn’t serve me or my kids well. I think there are good things about AO, such as their book lists for literature and history (although not always for the year they recommend), but I also think they don’t know what they don’t know when it comes to math and science. I don’t hear people talk about Mater Amabilis much, but it is a CM curriculum that, in my opinion, has better suggestions for science (at least for elementary age. I’m not as familiar with their upper levels.) I also agree with you that serving an ideology rather than educating a child is not a good thing. However, I believe that there are educational principles that are timeless and true. I don’t think Charlotte Mason was right about everything (as I’ve said repeatedly), but she articulated many of the things that have gone wrong in modern education and provided principles that can help us think through our attempts to do better. While many things can be adapted for the child in front of us, some things are objectively True, and there are better practices and worse practices.
×
×
  • Create New...