Disliking that children exist and wanting them secluded into seperate spaces sounds horribly selfish and there IS some of that going on but I also think there is backlash to kids who are allowed to do anything and cause problems where ever they go. I have worked a lot with special needs children so please don't think I am being overly fussy. People should be more patient in general BUT allowing kids to simply get away with disruptive behaivor all the time does cause back lash.

Sorry about the locked playground. That is disappointing.

I see a lot of hustle among my teens and friends but I also do see high expectations of work/life balance etc among others in extended family etc. Gen Z isn't homogenous anymore than any other generation. There are both extremes and a few moderates. I am working locally to get our local government to allow for more and varied housing and better public transit. If we could lower the cost of housing and healthcare (in both time and mental energy and $$$) the younger generations would probably be much better off regardless of where they are on the stress hustle scale.

I think the lack of outdoor exercise and social isolation are both bigger factors for mental health than the boredom in and of itself. It was very bad for my oldest two. We tried and tried to find ways for them to make social connections but struggled along until college. I also agree with the frustration of 3rd spaces closing to teens. I hate that things keep closing to them because the bad behavior of a few. Maybe society should only penalize the offenders rather than all teens. Jobs, driving hours, recreational facilities are all becoming more restrictive.

I will say often shortages make people race to a program and you end up with a glut. Radiologists were in high demand here but I personally now know 5 radiologists or people in training now. 5 years ago I knew 0 so I worry people just starting training now may find the jobs filled. 🤷‍♀️

You are going to see huge disparities in replies not just because regional differences but also in ability differences. I know many who make 6 figures working their way up without a college degree, even in the younger generation. Nephew is only 29 for example and makes good money but also is managing people already. I also know people with college degrees who aren't really qualified to do much. You have to choose in area and work your way up regardless and everything is a risk. If you are less capable of problem solving, higher math, running a business, leading people, or handling stress you will likely not make big money whether you go to college or not. In our society you are probably less likely to go to college if you don't like those things (so it is somewhat a sorting mechanism) but if you are capable of those things you can certainly succeed without the degree. Some paths will be cut off from you. My brother for example designs stuff for the plant he runs but certain things require an engineers signature because he doesn't have his PE license despite having the ability. He still makes 6 figures and runs the whole place. But the average person who doesn't have those skills and wants to take a position that doesn't take a lot of training or special skill will make very little money. Regional differences are huge because their is efficiency in clustering. If you start a business where there isn't skilled labor to employ you are at a disadvantage. My son regrets his electrical engineering degree because it will only help him license for basic construction because our location. He could have learned what he needed for that in a year or two but school drags it out. There is one robotics company up here making crawlers for testing pipelines but his degree didn't teach him what he needs for that nor does he need a degree to work therr. Lol So absolutely geography is huge. Bigger than most people realize. But so is ability. No matter what you will have to invest in one way or another in your education as mentioned above. Union apprenticeships aside as they are paid for by you and other members from membership dues.

I just realized how old this thread was! It is hard to just stand by and watch as kids make choices you wouldn't but good job on accepting and focusing on your relationship. I know you know that is the right thing to do but doesn't always make it easy so kudos to you. I hope it turns out well and she learns something about herself.

I agree that isn't the best reason to head off to school to spend money and it does sound like she has some success with her current work but thought I would let you know about Moody Bible Institute. I don't know what you consider legalistic. Students are not to drink and to attend chapel, things like that but one of the first things they do is pick a church and it could be Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, or whatever denomination. You choose and write a paper saying why you chose it. Of course, you can later change. Mainly they want you to think through why you choose things. They have limited degree programs because their focus is on ministry. You are required to participate in a service. My daughter works in an after school program for hers but you can be an English partner for someone learning English, work in a nursing home, for a variety of churchs and you can transfer out if your ministry doesn't fit you, though they start with a survey to try to fit your skills, talents, and personality. You don't pay tuition. It is paid by donors essentially. You do pay room and board and books and fees but they are reasonable. They use a lot of second hand books etc. My daughter's room was cheaper despite being in downtown Chicago than my son's in Huntsville. 😂 Anyway, I am pretty fussy about legalistic controlling places and there are Christian schools I would never send my kid to but I was ok with this one after visiting and seeing that they encouraged thinking things through and not everyone has to agree with each other, etc. It may be too strict for you but thought I'd just let you know it exists. https://www.moody.edu/

Well, my husband just replaced the bearings in our Speed Queen washer so it isn't perfect but we bought it in 2013 so.... It was an easy fix though shipping the part took awhile. Maybe it will last another decade now.

Had no idea. Learn something new everyday.

Somehow my college kids have survived without social media. They just have zero interest. I never really told them not to. Though I heard the grapevine one may have actually gotten an instagram account recently. The biggest problem? Buying and selling stuff? Third child (highschooler) has Facebook just for marketplace because he is always buying and selling things but he loses sales since people want to see his profile and he has almost nothing on it. Not arguing with you. Who knows what they miss out on but they seem to survive.

Thank you. And it is just hard. Often not succeeding is equated to not trying. How many of us struggle to change an old habit and fail despite not being born addicted or with FAS or tramautized as a child.

Where I live most coorespondence programs are run by various school districts. You are technically a public school student. You can request testing by the school district for an IEP or 504. You take all the standardized testing that the B&M take unless you opt out. Honestly, public school students can opt out too. I did opt one year because the kid was doing too much testing for his 504 and other things that we just needed to do school. You are eligible for services like speech or occupational therapy. People can become vendors for the school district and teach classes/tutor etc. This means the district can outright pay bills without parents waiting fpr reimbursement. Some school districts make it hard for people to become vendors, some are more reasonable. You can choose to enroll in a school district in a different part of the state. Programs compete for student enrollment. . Some require quarterly samples. All require pre made course plans and monthly teacher contact. All allow you to choose any curriculum or online classes as long as basic requirements are met. In high school this means meeting your districts credit requirements for graduation. Only secular will be funded though. This helps people who really struggle with simply losing one salary. Where children wouldn't be able to participate in anything else. Alaska started providing coorespondence schooling in 1939 so we have a more developed, mature program that has changed over many decades. It had to start as a way to meet its constitutional mandate to provide education to a kid that could be hundreds of miles from others. A villiage must have at least 10 children before the state provides a B&M school. It still is irrelevant to abuse. Do sadists care if their child gets music lessons? Do they know what to say to people to appear normal in their communications with contact teachers? Of course. If you are enticing people and helping people provide good education that is a goal of its own but it won't stop abuse. I know threads take turns and twists. So I am not sure if we are talking helping kids get an education now or abuse. I do think people often need help and it makes sense to me to provide it if homeschooling is going to be legal.

Personally, I just don't think it is a solution. I have seen abused kids in charter programs with more onerous requirements than any mentioned here. Teachers get clues and that's it. Some miss them; some report them and not a damn thing is done. The number one thing you can do to mitigate child abuse in this country is overhaul and properly fund CPS. Period. Most of us complaining about funding more pointless layers want that done. If that were done and kids reported on were actually taken care of then we could talk about adding more layers and spreading funds thinner and adding more levels of bureaucracy. As it is, kids who ARE reported on are being left in horrible situations. ETA- I have taken abused children into my home in the past. They were in a charter school for years previously and the school did not get the investigation started. I have also watched the state force an abused mother send children back to an abuser with barely speaking to the mother. There is just so little time to investigate. I try to share as little as possible as these aren't my stories to share despite my involvement and I am hesitant to even say this much. Similar stories to the aforementioned, of children being killed AFTER reports to OCS have occured in other places. It isn't an easy job and proof is essential for a variety of reasons but more effort to dig into cases is the best we can do.

I would like to say this is a Michigan problem but I know my state has similar issues and past cases where calls were made and children left to die. But children don't vote... And can't call their representatives... And society gets momentarily enraged and then goes about its own business...

They need to pay their employees more, have sticter requirements, and need way more employees to properly handle cases. They also need more vacation time and mental health care. Case workers are forced to either harden their heart and not care that they don't have time to properly handle a case or they quit often with PTSD. Turnover rates are so high. A child getting a smart experienced worker who hasn't completely deadened their heart and mind is highly unlikely.

Any money that could be spent on a special oversight committee should be sent to CPS. In our state CPS is so overwhelmed they can't bother to care for cases that ARE reported. Workers are burnt out. Even the cases that are investigated are shoddily done. Children are often forced to go back to their abusers. Adding another layer won't help if the dysfunction is so strong at the level where things are supposed to actually be dealt with. I don't have a problem with some oversight but I would prefer we take care of the agency that is supposed to protect children first. It needs to be functional.

Oh absolutely! That is my point entirily. Everyone has their own analysis. If I was paid big money in a professional career I would be way more likely to outsource a lot more. It makes absolutely no sense for a surgeon in high demand to take an extra day off to lay his own floor. That would be silly, unless it was relaxing for him and he needed a break from the stress of work. I think the problem is people project onto others their own situation and question "How can it be?" for others. Everyone has their own cost benefit analysis and it counts everything from what they can get paid to what their other options are to how desperate they are to whether they enjoy the work they are doing to the flexability of the schedule of the job.

You don't save "more" but all the time you spend in one place is time you aren't spending in another. It is called opportunity cost and it depends on what your opportunities are. That includes unpaid opportunities like spending time with children or building other revenue streams (which is working, just not in a traditional job). Sometimes it is simply money for later. For example, taking an unpaid internship is surely costly but if it helps you get more revenue later than it may be worth it. In some places $1 an hour is your pay because you do not have other opportunities. If you have other opportunities that are more valuable to you then you take those. Who here would take a $1 an hour job just because it existed? $5 an hour is not worth my time. I have more valuable opportunities. The $12-$14 tutoring is worth my time but only because it is flexible so I can continue to care for others. At some point it makes more sense to build for retirement for when our taxes go down rather than work the rest of my life to give to the IRS. I only have one life to live and I am not happy giving it away cheaply. Everything must be viewed in light of its opportunity cost. Also, people make decisions on the margin. What makes you decide to work part time instead of full time or just one full time job instead of 2 jobs? When I was a youngin I worked three jobs at once, including a lot of overtime on one. I needed to at that time. Now I would not really consider it because it is not worth it to me. That is how decisions are made. What will the next job get me or that extra gig on the weekend? How much will it cost me? Will I miss my kid's soccer game? Will I need to buy another car? Is it 1 hour commute for 1 hour of work? How much cost for how much benefit.

I have thought of tutoring math. Pretty sure I could get $40 an hour. Depending on clientele, but charge 40 an hour for Charter Schools that get funds. I could pick one day to do it for free at a nearby library or school for public school kids especially poor side of town. Then I could write off my volunteer time at the charter school rate but I would still be being helpful. Many homeschool parents really need help with highschool math so I would be helpful in that way too. By the time I get rid of taxes including 100% of payroll taxes, add in prep time and gas for travel (prefer to work in a public place.) I think I could get 12-15 an hour which is pretty good. It would not take long to build up clientele since I have had quite a few people already ask without any advertising. There is no way I'd do it for $12. That would mean $7.50 after tax not including prep or gas. I don't think the overhead for the business needs to be that high. No tools, no real need for a building when there is a public library, no need for ads outside word of mouth. Would that be an option for you? Don't know if you have the funds or demand in your area but it is using your brain. Also, it depends on if you need benefits or not.

Hadn't thought of that! It is something to look up and think about. Thanks I was thinking a couple little cabins to rent out. We have a housing shortage where I live and some more little rentals might be helpful is what I was thinking. I will have more time for projects once 3rd child graduates and can do most of it myself. I suppose I would make more renting them as AirB&B but we do need real rentals around here.

I think the real savings comes from being able to do things locally sourced. Contractors cost a lot more than apple butter. For example, last time we replaced a toilet. DH did upper bathroom and I cared for guest bathroom. It cost us nothing for labor And we bought toilet on sale. Wax ring was a smaller cheaper part but it saved us hundreds in labor costs. Not sure since it has been a very long time since we actually paid a plumber. Good contractors are so hard to find. Same with automotive work. We recently bought a car for a couple thousand put a $50 part in it and was going to turn around and sell it for 5,000 but will probably keep it until DS gets his car up here from the lower 48. We felt so bad, we called the lady to talk with her about her mechanic who was going to charge her thousands to replace something larger. Anyway, things that are sourced nationally or internationally are going to be cheaper to buy (like apple butter). Things that are sourced locally (childcare, restaurant food) you can save money on. Typically, you will bring home something but not much. Things like spending a lot on gas and a car does eat your check. My daughter chose to continue working in childcare last summer because she could walk to her work. Another job paid more but purchasing a car would take more than the extra she would earn (probably more than she would earn in total the whole summer and make her lose money to have a job) and she is going to school in Chicago where she doesn't need a car at least until graduation.

Right now my house needs major work due to an earthquake plus deferred maintance plus we have an acre of land. Last year we had 6 giant trees to limb, chip, cut. I am glad you can pull it off but I am mentally not up to working for $5 an hour and keeping up with all that. I have remodeled a whole house to sell while homeschooling 4 kids but damn it, I am just too old to want to put in 12-14 hour days anymore. I have done that already.

Hmm, maybe I should learn how to make balloon animals!

I am so like this! The gas for the commute, the clothes, everything. I can't help but count the cost of everything and tally in my head. Probably from raising 4 kids on one income. I don't have a degree so that also limits me. I have thought tuition reimbusement would also be a big bonus in a job. Most companies go only up to the taxable amount. That would make it more reasonable for me to get a degree. Grandma doesn't have the same number of decades to recoup the cost of college. 😂 I would definitly count the joy of doing something and contributing to society (already do some volunteer work) as a benefit but I also want to contribute to the household income in some way because it costs the household for me to work. All costs are opportunity costs! I have brainstormed setting up passive income for retirement years. Maybe building a little rental on our property. Managing our money well. Investing in something like a car wash or just anything that won't take full days of work when we are older. Just working for the 401k or whatever. It is hard for me to bring in income now and my kids are at their most expensive stage but if I could get them launched we would have plenty now and need more for retirement. So anyway, right there with you.