It's actually BK1 who has extended the invitation, though I don't think it's been that explicit. It's just sort of happened. It's really awkward addressing it with BK1 (yes, I'm a doormat, yes, I've gotta stop it). I''ve found a Gender Care place that offers help to homeless or couch surfing gender diverse young people so am going to pass those details on to BK2.

I thought about this more and would definitely not swap young adult parenting for sleepless nights with infants, so I guess lack of sleep was worse. I think this stage just requires a whole new skill set. And you're doing it without the benefit of constant oxytocin rushes. You have to learn a sort of loving detachment from your adult kids. It takes practise (well, it did for me).

Sorry all for derailing. Will zip it now.

See, I think this is gross. You successfully coerced a woman into not getting an abortion. Religious anti choice people were outside the clinic. Are you saying I'm lying? Actually, scrap that and just don't reply. This is painful, and I don't want to be in conversation about it anymore.

Good question. You ( and other anti choice people) come across as really not caring very much about the effects of your beliefs, when enacted in law. I find that extremely triggering. People with your beliefs harassed me outside a clinic when I was seeking my first abortion. So I guess that's why. Lack of understanding why it's a tragedy when your beliefs are legally ascendant. I don't know why you were begging someone not to get an abortion. If someone had done that to me I would have found it very manipulative. Adoption has it's own ethical issues and problematic outcomes, it's not a panacea.

God forbid women should be enraged at being deprived by the state of their access to essential medical care. I'm enraged for them! You live there. Those women are your neighbours. Why aren't you enraged?

Your views are extreme, not irrelevant. It's helpful, when in mixed company, to actually express the empathy you claim to feel, for those impacted by the enacting in law of beliefs like yours.

And in the meantime, a horrendous amount of suffering will be introduced into the world, not just for the 'guilty' woman or girl, but for the 'innocent' birthed baby and 'innocent' existing siblings. I don't understand how ppl with fundamentalist beliefs don't understand this. I don't understand why they would want this. Abortion truly is the lesser of two evils.

Ds does. He works, cooks, pays board. I wonder if part of my feelings are they I think BK2 is taking advantage of him?

Because your views lead to absolutely horrible outcomes for real people, and you don't seem to have the empathy to even acknowledge that. Maybe you do have the empathy, but you just don't express it.

I wonder too, but have no way of knowing. The parents aren't known to me, nor are they remotely local. I just feel so angry this morning that life saw fit to put me in this position. I'm tired. It is hard living with a stranger ( and it's the second time! My other bk wasn't so hard, but I think that's because she was the first ). I wonder if there are any temp housing options I can recommend to them, while still welcoming them as a visitor?

I just find the hypotheticals so frustrating. This will never happen, even though we can both see it would need to. We have to live in the world as it is. I hope an anti-choice person answers you in detail about what they envision, because honestly, I've never heard anything that isn't a few nappies and washing of hands.

To convert people. OK.

Well, ongoing access to free quality therapy to work through the trauma of being forced by the state to give birth, and then either raise a child or give a child away is one thing I'd put on the list.

Do you think it's moderate to force a raped ten year old to give birth? Is it moderate to force a raped or coerced woman to give birth? Is it moderate to insist that babies be born into all kinds of terrible situations, including domestic violence? All because 'a zygote/embryo/foetus' is a person from conception? Those are extreme views. A moderate view is that abortion should be available in the first trimester. A moderate view is that safe, legal and rare is sad but necessary. A moderate view is that you don't make raped girls or women give birth. A moderate view is that a woman can probably accurately assess her ability to be a decent mother at that point in time. A moderate view accepts that birth us more dangerous for a woman than early abortion.

Most of the Western world doesn't agree. It's only really relevant for her personal choices anyway. She can believe it all she wants, and I'd 100% support her in not having had an abortion. I'm as anti forced abortion as I am forced birth. But it's so weird that ppl don't get their own outlying, unfalsifiable view is irrelevant to the choices of others.

I'm not enjoying my own generosity. I don't understand why I've ended up in loco parentis for a kid I hadn't even met till a few weeks ago. I feel really resentful that this kids' parents can rely on ppl like me to house and feed their kid. I'm prob just a nasty person, but I am not enjoying this at all.

Yeah, hypotheticals are nice and all, but we live in the real world. DV isn't going to be abolished, coercion isn't going to disappear, poverty likewise. The world isn't going to transform itself to be disability friendly either. Birth will continue to be.mote dangerous than an early abortion. Otoh, abortion is possible, and provide most women and girls who choose this option a great sense of relief that they at least could access this choice. A shame? I mean, sure, in some ways. It's more of a shame to not live in the world as it is, imo.

It's painful. People on this thread would see women and girls forced to go through a full pregnancy and birth, regardless of the context. Imo, yes, everyone deserves respect, but that isn't a one-sided thing. I think it's extremely disrespectful for anti-choice people to use some of the language they do ( in mixed company) and to show complete disregard for the circumstances of women and girls. I have had polite private conversations with some of the anti choice posters here, and understand their perspective. It has made zero difference to their levels of empathy for pregnant girls and women who may seek an abortion. So really, what's the point in being 'nice', is something I ask myself. Anti choice folk aren't the victim's here.

I remember being scolded quite robustly here for using the term anti choice. I don't know why. It's accurate. So is 'people in favour of forced birth'. Pro life is excellent branding, for sure.

Nobody aborts 'kids'. FYI

Not responding to pages of forced birth justifications. OP, you're right, it's illogical for a foetus to be a person, legally, in one context, and not a person in another. I don't know how to square that circle. I think I would err on the side of not counting a foetus as a separate person re murder. Certainly I can see no reason before viability for the foetus to be a legal person. I appreciate parents who.lose a longed for baby (as they feel it) due to criminal behaviour would find that attitude heartless. I'm not sure it's as heartless as forcing, say, a 10 year old girl to give birth. In the end, we don't actually know when 'person' begins. It's not a problem we can solve, really. All we do know for sure is that the pregnant girl or woman is a person. So when she is killed we can call that murder or manslaughter, and when there is a conflict between her and the being we don't know and cannot prove is a person yet, it should be resolved in her favour.

Agree.

ATAGI set to allow 4th shots for people over 30. Recommended for people over 50.

NSW Health public warnings this week: Flu RSV Covid Monkey pox Diphtheria Probs gonna be some other flood related plague by Sunday.