OK, with the caveat that in our public-private system, we also have for-profit hospitals - health care being for profit will never not shock me. No matter where in the world it takes place. What a weird species we are, that we see opportunities for profit anywhere, even in sickness.

It's not about allergies. It's a carcinogen. Exposure to secondhand smoke can give you cancer. Employers should not expose their workers to known carcinogens, and if people would like social workers, health aides, etc. exposed, due to patient autonomy, they'd better be good with those same workers receiving hazard pay. A very high level of hazard pay. It's unacceptable to expose workers to known carcinogens.

Nah fam. We don't have waiting rooms in the hospital/on the ward for twenty family members to congregate. We do have fish tanks and sculptures* Can twenty family members congregate for Aunt Sally's knee replacement by the fish tank? Probably not. *In the big, new city hospitals. Not in my old grungy city hospital**. No fish tanks for us. ** Teaching hospital - best treatment. No fish. No room for Aunt Sally's goddaughter's MIL. Not much pretty.

Second hand smoking is a work health and safety issue. Client can smoke. They just can't access a worker indoors and smoke. They could use a nicotine patch or gum during the meetings. An employee who allows their employees to be exposed to a toxin in the workplace is negligent.

Because I woke up irritated, I'm going to add, yes, green gardens aid healing You know what else reduces stress? When someone gets rushed off to ICU or whatever, and you don't once have to think about money. Not once. Public systems do many things poorly, imo, but one thing they do well is save your life in emergency situations (often) without creating any form of money stress, even 'just' the stress of navigating grants or insurance. I have known many people with cancer here. Some died and many didn't. It's probably true we don't have access to the most cutting edge of the cutting edge in all areas. Still, I've known people getting eg gene therapy. It's not like the payoff for lack of money stress is 'here, we can give you Aspirin, and if that doesn't fix it, oh well, guess you died in the cause of universal health'. OK, now I am slightly less irritated. I think the mental image of my ex MIL being able to camp out in a lobby to 'support' aka come and take over my baby has done my head in.

I'm really not sure how 'twenty people hanging out at your surgery' turned into the rest of this thread, where people are offended we are glad we don't have the stress of paying for life saving care at point of service, but yes, big city hospitals have amenities! Entrances! Places for staff and ambulatory patients to get coffee! Overpriced pharmacies selling essentials you forgot to pack before being admitted! Chapels! Now I know that people in the US can have their twenty family members gathered in what sounds like a mall attached to a hospital, it makes more logistic sense. No emotional sense to me, but logistic, fine. Still, don't ignore the boundaries of a new mom. Even from the lobby. It's really rude.

I am very grateful for no cost at the point of service hospital care.

I think I worked out the disconnect. We have a public-private system. Private makes $$, does the lower risk stuff and offers bells and whistles. Public does everything, but no bells and whistles. Doctors work across both systems. If we paid big bucks, we'd probably have more waiting rooms.too.

We have big hospitals, lol Melissa just spent weeks in one!

City hospitals have waiting rooms here for the ED and day surgery - for the patients and one or two family members or carers. They are not for vague 'emotional support of the family' reasons, but for reasons like: waiting to take a day patient home, waiting for a child or baby to have surgery, waiting to find out if someone will be admitted and where, accompanying a non-local patient. If you are admitted and having surgery, someone can visit bedside before hand, and either in recovery or after coming back from recovery as per ward rules. The hospital will call you to let you know the patient is out of surgery. The only time groups gather are when a patient is actively dying. Depending on the hospital, there may be a family lounge. ~ There was a kitchenette and small lounge at the birth center I gave birth at. It was for birth partner/s. During the day there was a cafe if someone was desperate to hang out. Otherwise, wait for a call!

Yeah, some people just see babies as an extension of themselves. It offends their self-concept when mother-baby have needs that differ from their own. It never augurs well for the future.

Oh, I have seen this up close and personal. You know, you can really tell who is trustworthy and who isn't by who can abide by a simple request for no visitors. Or who can use their common sense and ask first, and be the kind of person a new mom can say no to without fear of a huff or a tantrum. I gave my in-laws every chance (and my own mother too, if it comes to that) but they showed over and over again (in-laws in particular) that they only cared about their bragging rights. They reaped as they sowed - none of my kids have a relationship with them now. And really, the steamrollering over boundaries from birth predicted it.

Omg this would kill me. Seriously. If I told my sister I was having surgery, and then she invited herself and other people to the hospital? I would implode.

How do twenty people have time off to go wait for hours at a hospital?! Sooo many questions.

Dying isn't surgery. I will die on the hill of it being a crazy idea that twenty - twenty! - family members show up at a hospital when someone is having surgery. Pray from home. Send a text. Who even TELLS twenty people they are having surgery, lol?

A person. Not twenty people.

Because twenty plus people for multiple patients is a lot. It sounds like an exaggeration, at least.

I have never been more grateful for the single chair by the bed whenever I've been in hospital. One visitor at a time is enough ( and if more arrive, having to stand makes their visits quick!)

I find this hard to believe. Many people have twenty or more family members hanging around while they have surgery, and the patient is thrilled by that?

I would hope that hospitals would take a look at their infection control policies and make some changes. If there isn't a good reason to be at the hospital, you shouldn't be there. Support these days can be provided from home.

Mothers ARE in charge of their post partum experience! And the baby, if it comes to that!

Nobody needs twenty family members waiting around for a surgery, regardless of how big a waiting room is.

@Jenny in Florida

In a COVID world, it's crazy for 20 people to show up at a hospital to 'show support'. You can keep in touch from home. It's unfair to staff and other patients to traipse in 20 x of unnecessary germs.

That's really frustrating. Do you think maybe it's a way of expressing his anxiety/worry about you? A really unhelpful way, of course. It must be so hard not being able to be at home.