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Lovely Bookishness

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  1. Politics don't need to be out of bounds necessarily, but I think the kid had an equal responsibility to civil discourse as the parent, considering she's also an adult. Her unsafe comment struck me as a conversation shut down and an emotional ploy. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been on both sides of that kind of dynamic, and I don't see anything wrong with OP's response if that was the case. I'm simply asking - is there possibly a scenario where OP isn't a jerk for saying what she did? I'm not saying she did everything right, either. I'm asking why we can't give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe she wasn't wrong in how she handled her kids, since she is their mother.
  2. I chose to give OP the benefit of the doubt that this happened. It doesn't seem like anyone else did.
  3. I'm not being dismissive. I'm stating how it appeared to me that the conversation went. I think it's ridiculous for a person, any person of any age, to vilify a family member and be hurtful because they won't agree about politics. We're all so quick to defend the kid, but my question is, what if the kid really was in the wrong here? It read as emotional manipulation to me, and in that case "pulling the card" is an apt description of the tactic to coerce agreement.
  4. I understand that, I do, but I also know that it's entirely possible for a kid to manipulate a parent with their feelings. Telling a parent they don't feel safe in their home, especially after all this particular family has been through and all OP has done to protect this kid, especially if she tried to reason with her and still got that same rhetoric...yeah, I could totally see myself in the same situation saying, "If that's how you really feel, you don't have to stay here." I can also imagine having it said *to* me and then understanding that oh, wait a minute, maybe I'm carrying this too far. I mean, what was OP supposed to do? Agree with her kid to keep the peace? That's not healthy, either, and even less fair to everyone involved. And I hate to cast aspersions on folks I don't know, but it's entirely possible that OP's kid was using tactics learned from her dad to try to get her way. If that's the case, I feel OP was justified in shutting it down.
  5. I said it more fully below (answered them backwards, lol), but these were 2 separate kids and conversations. We don't know if she asked or not, or what the full extent of the conversation was, in the few comments she made here. All I'm trying to point out is she knows her kid. Sometimes saying, "Look, if you're genuinely that upset, you don't have to be here" is a valid response, and not a particularly unkind one. No, these were 2 separate instances. One daughter had the issue at work and wanted therapy. OP seemed to feel that was an over the top response to the situation, and okay, I can see some gentle reframing from people who have had similar experiences and want to help her see that she may be missing something there. It was the other daughter who was pulling the "I don't feel safe" card after a political discussion that didn't go how she wanted it to.
  6. Or maybe the kid really was using "I don't feel safe" as an emotional manipulation and the correct response *for that situation* was "If that's true, then there's the door." There are things that do benefit from having the bluff called or the nonsense pointed out. I know there were instances in my youth where I was modeling manipulative behavior that I grew up with and I really benefitted from someone letting me know I was doing so, or just refusing to be cowed by my crap. It made me grow up and get over myself.
  7. I think a gentle challenge of ideas is healthy, and in the case of the harrassed daughter, probably even helpful. I still err on the side of trusting Mom to know her kids and whether her daughter's response was in character with her previously or not, but whatever. Other people have decidedly different experiences, and why are we here if not to share those for the benefit of others? No, what floors me is how many have decided that *based on their own experience*, OP is not only wrong/misguided/downright horrible, but anyone who might possibly agree that OP has a reason to roll her eyes or wonder at her kids' responses is likewise damaging to society in general. I'm exaggerating, but not by much. As an example, even you were jumped on by sharing your example. Worst intent was assumed and someone was legitimately upset that you might be so mean to your kid. Why weren't you given the benefit of the doubt that you knew your kid and were reacting appropriately? I find it disturbing that we're so ready to not only cast stones, bit bludgeon each other with them. For the record, I have no issue with how you've expressed your opinions here. You were quite gentle about it. Yes, they do. Should that be an accepted part of board culture? Why do we have to be okay with that, either? Challenging another's opinion in free and open exchange with respect on both sides is NOT the same as assuming the worst possible intent and subsequently twisting the OP's words to fit the new, outraged narrative. But that's not what happened in the OP, which she explained more than once. Her daughter came up with "I don't feel safe" in response to her refusal to agree to vote the way the daughter wanted her to, or abstain from voting. That's ridiculous. At what point do we acknowledge that even young people can be emotionally manipulative, as much as we love them and value their feelings? OP is allowed her own feelings and opinions, too.
  8. Good morning! Our house is a time and money eating monster, but I haven't died and neither have any of my people. Dave has been working so hard on it, and I've been working so hard to keep people alive and educated, lol. There's still a lot to do, but the emergencies are almost handled. It will be good to settle in for winter. In the meantime, I'm focused on one hour at a time. Isaac is super cute, Slache. Congrats on a full night sleep, Servie! Hugs to you all. Gotta go get groceries. 🥰
  9. When it's happening again in this very thread? Not ironic at all, because that's not what she's doing. Meanings get twisted to their worst all the time here. OP started talking about issues she had with her daughters when they were home, and it's become essentially a diatribe contributed to by many about how awfully OP handled her girls. It could very well be equally true that her daughters are behaving in exactly the ways she, their mother, is saying that they are. She knows them, we don't. She saw then through traumatizing times, we didn't. Why are we jumping on her and saying, whoa, lady, maybe you need to do all the things differently, instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt that maybe she actually knows what she's talking about in regard to her girls? She hasn't come back to her own thread. And I don't blame her. Maybe our time would be better spent actually attempting to understand another's POV, rather than solely trying to make other people understand ours. It's like the difference between listening and simply waiting for your turn to talk. I don't see much listening happening.
  10. T2 is definitely the best one. Hello! I'm overwhelmed by House Things and Educating People but I am alive, as per regulations. Hugs and love and prayers! Toto, are you taking before and after pictures? Wanna share 'em? Jean, are you taking before and after pictures? Wanna share 'em? Susan, wear the dress!
  11. My husband had been known to call a kid "loin fruit" on occasion, but that's a sweet family joke dating from our first pregnancy. I don't like crotch goblin or parasite or anything else that makes a child feel or seem unwanted or burdensome, even jokingly or even if it feels true in the moment.
  12. Same. Sorry, friend. I'm glad your headache has improved some since this post. 🥰 Happy nirthday, Susan's dh! Would a happy dance be inappropriate? Happy nirthday, Krissi's mom! Thanks for this, lol. I've never seen it. (I'm a first wave millenial, but I'm not a very good one.) I told Dave that having more than 1 project going at a time stresses me out, so he disassembled the sink guts to try to install the dishwasher. That would have been fine, except the guy who delivered the dishwasher said we didn't need the tubes and cords we had also ordered, so he kindly returned them for me, and then it turned out we did actually need them, after all. The local hardware store didn't have what we needed, which took 2 attempts to discover, so I offered to stop at Lowe's when I went to the big town a half hour away to get groceries. Lowe's used up all the time I had for all errands, so I'm home now and still have to grocery shop, but a nasty headache has sidelined me. While I was gone, Dave took apart the oven, began to disassemble the deck, and made the laundry machines currently inoperable. I may scream. (In all fairness, we bought the fixer-upper version of "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie." He really was trying to do just 1 job while he waited for me to get back from Lowe's.)
  13. Dave and I discovered this evening that we both saw the second one before the first, mostly because the second one came out when we were kids and the first one was already older at that point. Dave is actually watching the first one for the first time right now, bit I've seen it once before. The lack of security is probably the most glaring difference to me. That and cell phones, lol.
  14. Dave and I are watching The Terminator. It's amazing to me how crazy different 1984 was from today. And the hair!
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