[How do I motivate a lazy-minded tween?]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ps- it pushes huge buttons for me to characterize a child as being “lazy-minded”. I do know that some people can be lazy. But making mistakes is not laziness. And doing work when you have help doesn’t point to laziness to me. 

I realize, lazy was not the best choice of words. however, though I do think she is lazy at times, I also believe there is a reason for it, and I am determined to help her in any way that I can. I am also extremely frustrated with how everything is going with her. I’m not a perfect mom nor teacher, but these kinds of conversations where I can be completely honest about my feelings and shortcomings really help me learn more about the development of children and their education. 

[How do I motivate a lazy-minded tween?]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Fwiw, it actually does hurt some very bright kids to think if they have low processing speed. My dd as very bright with ADHD and low processing speed, and cognitive tasks could be very fatiguing. ADHD is usually accompanied by EF (executive function) challenges, so you could start by assuming she has some EF issues. Kids who are getting labeled "lazy" usually have EF problems.

https://www.amazon.com/FLIPP-Switch-2-0-Mastering-Executive/dp/1942197632/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=flipp+the+switch+2.0&qid=1627242670&sr=8-1  Ignore that it says autism and just look at the great ideas. 

https://www.efpractice.com  Sarah Ward of 360 Thinking has really great stuff, easy to implement ideas. One of the things she talks about is how kids SABOTAGE themselves, because they think the task will take longer than it does! So it could be that she's fatiguing with the math, sure. And it could be that she *thinks* it will take longer than it does. So then then EF steps are things like chunking the work, using a timer, taking breaks. They do a step where they *estimate* how long the work will take and then actually time it. These are life skills!!! That way she learns how to look at her work and say ok it's 30 problems, I can chunk it into 10 problems and do sets with breaks and get it done. That's what learning about Executive Function will teach you how to do.

Also read about Collaborative Problem Solving. Rather than you saying she's lazy (words are POWERFUL and you just labeled her???), you need to change the dialogue to accurate words and collaboration that helps her problem solve. 

Fwiw, not knowing your situation or meaning to be critical, it sounds like you're busy and not providing the level of support and structure she will need to succeed. You can learn how to provide more structure and support or you can hire someone. What isn't helpful to assume that somehow the dc will figure it out for themselves or even that they're being willfully bad. Most kids, even this age, still want to please you. Odds are she doesn't have the tools. Even adults fail with their Executive Function ALL THE TIME. So we lambast kids for what we ourselves don't do well. And by the time they no longer need us to guide/teach them how, well they'll be graduating and launching, lol.

So yes she's a child, yes you're going to need to provide more support/structure. There are plenty of resources to learn how. If this issue is pervasive, you could look for a counselor or educational therapist (yes there is such a thing) who specializes in ADHD who could help you get on track. Also consider reading about ADHD. It does not look in girls like you think and it could be part of the issue.

Awesome stuff, thank you.

[How do I motivate a lazy-minded tween?]

8 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

For a 10/11yo, there isn't such a thing as wanting to organize their thoughts.

Just to approach this a different way, you say she struggles with math, right?  3rd grade concepts in 5th?  So, to break down her responses, it's probably more like this:

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She has gotten 100% on tests that she dragged through, throwing fits, being very negative, and I'll pull her up and watch her finish it and she will get a high score!

To her, math is a crapshoot.  She isn't sure of the concepts, so it's scary to be faced with a test and not be sure.  A test should assess what you know, but it should also be comfortable. 

She gets excited and I tell her to remember this moment the next time you do math, that you can do it, it just takes time and effort.

Again, it's a crapshoot.  It's THIS test.  THESE concepts.  The next one is going to incite the same panicky feeling.  This test, she won the coin toss of figuring it out or not.  The next one is still a 50/50 in her mind.

But..... sure enough, she does the whole fit over again.

Because it's a different test. It's new.  She may have to apply something she's not sure about and doesn't want to feel dumb.

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When you look at it a different way, it can look like a lack of self confidence can cause a lot of doubt in ability.

You say in your other thread that Time4Learning is working because it does the work for you.  I don't think it's giving her the ability to problem solve as well you you might hope.

Yes, when you put it that way, I see your point. She does have a lack of self confidence with math for sure, from the very start. It’s hard for me to put that confidence in her when I myself have a hard time with concepts. 
 

when I say Time4learning does the work for me, I mean yes it does, because we work heavily on other school subjects like history, literature, grammar, and extracurricular activities. Although math is part of our daily schedule, I myself am not very good at math and so when we first started homeschooling I looked for something that would be less on my shoulders. Plus I have multiple kids and it’s my first time. Also, it puts math in terms that I thought she would benefit. So I think I definitely learned a lesson on that. 
 

I am looking at Math u see right now.

[How do I motivate a lazy-minded tween?]

23 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Does the approach you use with your daughter help you?  I know if someone told me "See? You can do it.  It just takes time and effort." it wouldn't go over well.  It would negate any positive that could come from that.  Because honestly, what I need is this:

• -ways to help me approach hard tasks
• -being allowed to feel how I feel about them
• -a good routine that makes hard tasks less procedurally hard
• -ways to be responsible for my own learning, with guidance

 

So, how do you feel being told the same words?

I don't make things my kids are really into into school.  I try to make school that sweet spot of something they can be interested in because I am also interested or want to share it with them. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  Sometimes it's just not relevant at the time and we need to put it away. 

I also do periodic assessments with my kids.  We sit at the table with a pile of pastries or cookies, some cocoa, and take turns talking about what we each like, don't like, want to change, want to keep/drop...there's a need for respect of both sides before we come up with a plan for the next few weeks/month to try and then assess how it's going again.

 

23 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Although, to be fair, with some kids it's REALLY hard to find a sweet spot. We've been trying and trying this year, and it's really hard. DD9 only wants to do what she wants to do, to an extent that makes homeschooling her really challenging. 

We also spend plenty of time trying to make things interesting, and discussing, and trying things. But sometimes, the missing ingredient is effort on the part of the kid even for the non-interesting parts, and you can't do anything about it... 

I don't know if that's what going on with the OP, though. Just my own personal experience this year. 

Yes! Exactly. The smallest effort is like pulling teeth, and the melt down comes…🙄. There is only so much I can do for her. I give her the tools to help her but she doesn’t want to organize her thoughts when it comes to math. We’ve tried pretty much everything you’ve mentioned and still no effort. So frustrating. 

[How do I motivate a lazy-minded tween?]

7 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

For most kids there are things that you can do to make it better, but I think that some kids just aren't going to want to do academic work no matter how you set it up.  One of my kids actually likes a lot of their school work and is philosophical about the fact that the stuff that they don't like has to be done.  The other does not have the same temperament and has fought academics off and on for 6 years.  I give my kids some say in what we use and how we structure our day so that they have some control. 

The most helpful things for us have been to have a routine, starting at around the same time, and also ensuring that fun stuff doesn't happen until school work is done - until I am happy with the work completed, no TV, reading for fun, messaging with friends, and if there is a planned extracurricular in the afternoon or evening the work must be done to my satisfaction (or an appropriate percentage of the work if it is earlier, like 1 pm instead of 5).  If they say 'I just have a little left' then I tell them they are welcome to take it in the car and they can go in to activity late if they can't finish up during the drive.  I have had to be almost absurd with that - obviously it would be fine to do 15 minutes of work at home afterwards, but if they've been dragging their feet all day then I can't be flexible or the next time it will be just 30 minutes saved until after activity, she says from experience.😃

There is an ADD aspect of 'can't get started' that this kid struggles with - they both can't get started (even with a fun activity) and are overwhelmed by anything that looks long.  They once melted down over 40 math problems in a review, even though the problems were checking their ability to do certain manipulations with algebraic expressions and, since the numbers were small, the problems were easily solved as fast as the student could write them down.  Student was able to get through it once I said that we wouldn't take more than 40 minutes...let's see how many they could get done in 10 minutes, and I think we were done in 25 minutes.  This feels unreasonable for a middle schooler, but that's where we are and that's what needs to happen for the work to get done, so that's what we do.

I completely agree with you! I think routine would benefit more than Anything. You hit in on nose with the behavior though. The fits that she has every single day, 2 hour long math sessions for 20 questions, meanwhile I have 2 other daughters that need my attention for school as well. I’m topped off for patience with her. I’m not messing around this year, or she’ll have to go back to public school, which is not what she or I want. 

she has a lot of extracurricular activities in the afternoon that she adores, so I think I’ll have to use that as well for leverage. I hate to do that, but with kids that are this stone cold against doing the hard work, don’t deserve to have the fun. 

[Still have half of the lessons left to do for this school year]

We are using Time 4 Learning for math. I am not super pleased with it but it does a lot of the work for me. I have Saxon for grade 3, it was supposed to be for last year, my daughter was in 4th grade last year but a 3rd grade level math. So I am not sure what to do for math for her. She really struggles with math and so I don't know if we should just keep going with the same level or go up a grade level. She would still be in 3rd grade level math starting her 5th grade year. I'm worried for her with this.

[Still have half of the lessons left to do for this school year]

We are about half way through our lesson books for history, grammar, phonics, and math. I was wondering what other parents would do. Would you continue on through the next year trying to finish the books, or would you move on to the next grade level. I would like to keep going on the SOTW but grammar, phonics, and math I feel overlap in the following years curriculum. But I am new to this. Thoughts?

[How do I motivate a lazy-minded tween?]

My daughter is super bright, intelligent, and spirited, but when it comes to the hard work that comes to her education she does not want to take the time to learn it. She likes the idea of things, but doesn't want to do the work for it. She takes the short cut every time. And the when I catch her, which is every time, I make her correct her mistake every time, but she persists to make the same mistakes every time. I think that her age has a little to do about it, but there is is also this element that she has had her whole life. So, I've tried to make school about things she is really into, and she gets excited about it and motivated, and then the work comes, and she runs out of gas so quickly and suddenly that she wants to give up. She does this with her Math lessons almost every day. She has gotten 100% on tests that she dragged through, throwing fits, being very negative, and I'll pull her up and watch her finish it and she will get a high score! She gets excited and I tell her to remember this moment the next time you do math, that you can do it, it just takes time and effort. But..... sure enough, she does the whole fit over again. I am really caught in the middle of putting her back in public school because I don't know what to do anymore. I want her to learn, bottom line, preferably homeschooled, but I don't know what to do. But her whole outlook on doing work is so lazy. She has a mind, but she doesn't want to use it because it is too hard, her critical thinking skills can be so great but she has to think, that's the problem, it's almost as if it is hurting her to think. But when she does use it, it's brilliant, and she is so proud of herself, but then it goes back into its whole and we start the process all over again. I'm sure this is somewhat normal for tweens, so any suggestions, techniques, advice would be appreciated! Thank you

[Using visuals during history/mythology lessons?]

That’s a good idea printing them out and posting them on the walls. It could be an activity we do for each chapter. That way we can reference them when they want to review chapters! !

[Using visuals during history/mythology lessons?]

Hi there!

so I started reading D’Aulaires’ Book of Greek Myths to my 6 yo, and also reading SOTW to her and my 9 year old, and was wondering if anyone has insight on providing more visuals to these stories? I know when I was in college the visuals helped tremendously to put the words together with visuals and it helped sink in more. But I also know that kids in the grammar stage need to learn more with their ears rather than visuals. Does anyone else use presentations when they read/teach a lesson? Am I thinking about this too much or should I just read right through these lessons/readings?

P.S. I like to use pictures of original statues, paintings, descriptive scenes etc. They are legit visuals so they learn the real things and not animated videos or alternative depictions of the originals.

Thanks!

[Starting with a fourth grader]

Yes I am planning on homeschooling from now on every year. This is great info, thank you. I’m trying not to worry about it. I know she will be just fine. She is very smart and absorbs info like crazy. 
 

Thank you for the support. I am so excited for my girls and for myself to start this new journey!

[Starting with a fourth grader]

I am starting homeschool for the first time this fall and my oldest daughter on this curriculum in 4th grade and I also have a first grader. I would like to go about the curriculum the way it is designed as far as “the story of the world” goes, but she needs to learn the first and second time periods first. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to get her up to speed and at her grade level with this? Since Covid interrupted her 3rd grade progress I am willing to bring her down to 3rd grade level for this year since she needs to work more on grammar, spelling, and math. I know her situation won’t be perfectly smooth like my first grader, but I would like her feel like she is at her age group. I’ve attached a photo of the curriculum progress by grade of student and what time periods they study for reference as to what I am talking about. Thank you!