That is my point: what pass is the state giving its own schools that it refuses to give you? If they are failing their kids, nothing happens, despite the kids' needs not being met. And if you send your kid to these failing and even sometimes unsafe schools, you have done all you need to do and everyone gets to wash their hands. If they aren't themselves capable of providing a certain level of education to each and every child, they aren't in a position to dictate to the parents. I also think the biggest problem would be the practical problem of what situation or results would be considered neglect, which the schools also face! Schools have low performing kids and maybe there's all kinds of stuff that isn't the teachers' fault, which is a point other people have made. A perfect world where all children receive a top quality education and have nothing going on (divorce, illness, bullying, etc) that makes learning harder at the moment isn't really an option, however you school.

I will take on more monitoring and regulation from the district when THEY let ME come in and monitor and regulate them. I can't imagine how angry it would make me to have a state that does a poor job of educating many or even most of its children asserting their right to evaluate how I educate mine. I live in Texas (no notice even) and I have never met anyone IRL who didn't take their HSing very seriously. I would separately add that there is currently a largely unnoticed battle going on in our society between two rival ways of seeing the government's relation to the human person: is each human being a ward of the state, to whom the state owes many things, and whose care the state chooses to delegate to parents? Or is the human person, existing in a family, the main unit of society, who then consents to and participates in a government in exchange for certain rights and responsibilities? The early legal decisions on homeschooling recognized the family as having the fundamental right to educate within the family, regardless of the state's dissent, as long as it didn't truly amount to abuse or neglect. I think regulations, according to HSLDA have not ever been shown to improve outcomes, and there is no difference between performance in high and low reg states. But regulations DO imply that the child is largely the province of the state, and the state must be convinced that you are capable being given the state's task of educating your child. But that is MY job, either to educate my children myself or to choose an appropriate school. The outcome may look similar, but there is a world of difference in what rights the state feels it can accord itself in your house.

Thanks for these ideas! Can I ask, though, how do you schedule it all? Is it like Bible on Monday and Wed, catechism Tuesday, etc, or do you do one day per week Bible, one day Catechism, one day saints, one day liturgical year, etc? Or just get to it when you can on a loop?

I don't have the dark blue version, so I'm not sure specifically what you were looking at 😉, but in the light blue version (4B) she starts gently by introducing the idea of a remainder conceptually (so that when they do the first division they know to subtract and get the remainder, the first step in long division). She uses color pictures of animals and objects for this. Then for long division proper, she does what she often does with a big topic: she teaches it two or even three different ways, usually starting with a highly concrete/pictorial idea (e.g., using pictures of hundred blocks, ten rods, and ones and asking kids to make even groups, to show division and remainders for kids who need that kind of thing) and then usually ending with an algorithm/abstract method (or what I think of as "normal" method I learned in school). My experience is that kids usually learn well with ONE of those methods, and you can skip the other lessons to prevent confusing the child. For some kids, it doesn't click without rods and pictures etc. For other kids, like my son, we usually touch on the pictorial stuff to make sure he's not just memorizing an algorithm, but honestly we don't really get down to the business of cementing the skill until the algorithm is fully introduced. Here's some screenshots on my phone - the first is intro of a remainder. Then where you "put" the remainder in the columns and how to subtract it. Third, the concept of long division using rods and making groups (which I grant may be very confusing for some kids, and you might skip if they don't need it - she's trying to make sure the kids understand the place value). And finally, now we're fully in the simple abstract long division algorithm.

I wouldn't go to Saxon right away, at least not while shoring things up. MM allows you to pinpoint the specific concept and do just that. Saxon introduces a small piece of a concept and then reviews a lot of prior concepts. That would be fine eventually but it would be too hard to focus on just the areas that are weak. Once he's gotten fairly well caught up, you could transition to Saxon to show him how it works.

I just worry that once again, as so many people have been saying for the past year, this will be something equated with homeschooling that isn't homeschooling. I hate to think of an entire generation of kids and parents saying "Oh homeschooling? That doesn't work well and has such bad outcomes. The video lessons and never seeing their friends? That's the worst." They won't equate it with a parent-led customized approach, with tons of social interaction with other homeschooling families. They are in this weird no-man's-land of not in school, not homeschooling.

Which one is that? I like what I know of TAN but they seem to have so many series, that it's kind of overwhelming!

Yes to Math Mammoth, and it's fairly inexpensive to try - the 7A or 7B book is under $20.

I know this has come up before, but I thought I would check back in here in 2021 and ask what you use for religion if you are Catholic? I would like to do some Bible, catechism, and saints. CHC has great hands-on religion programs that we do use, but they are really meant to be supplements and certainly don't hit Bible and catechism. We have used Faith and Life and really have not been super happy with it. It seems meh and forgettable and wordy, but easy to schedule and just hand to a kid and say "read chapter 6." I have done MODG's Baltimore Catechism memorization, which I love, but now after two years of doing a pretty spotty job of getting to it (or rather, not getting to it, because anything that involves mom involvement just doesn't get done enough, with babies and toddlers under foot), I have to concede defeat and admit that it's not getting done. We've also done just the Bible readings in the AO schedules, also pretty easy to just hand a kid a Bible and a section to read, but not exactly a study of it. I remember looking into Seton and seeing a good workbook, and then looking up their plans and finding out they scheduled about 14 different resources for religion and what looked like a months' worth of work in a week. I also have heard about St Thomas school but like so many programs it seems to assume you will be doing 2-3 different religion assignments every day. I've been wondering about the Great Adventure storybook thing, but I can't seem to find much out there on it. It might have changed names? Anyway, I don't know if what I want is out there, even piecing several programs together. I need easy to schedule, not very heavy workload, not much teacher involvement, but still good solid quality and not just busy work.. What have you all found and how do you use and schedule it?

You know, I know he's only 8, but sometimes with this situation it can be nice -- if at all possible with this child -- to give the child his subjects in a basket or milk crate with a list of assignments and try to have him work independently. It goes without saying that this method only works when there are some awesome rewards for getting work done before a certain time and consistent consequences (especially reinforced by Dad playing the heavy) for not doing so. But the main benefit is that sometimes there just starts to develop this bad atmosphere between mom and boy, with the boy resenting having to "play school" with fake mom teacher and be the performing monkey, with mom saying "what's the answer" and "now listen to me teach" and it's all resented. I was in those circumstances with an 8 yo boy and it just got a lot better when he was responsible for his own work and just called me in for help. In those cases, I would use language like "hmm, that's tricky. Let's see if we can figure this out together." That validates the struggle and is less "teacher-y" and more fellow learner. If he ever reverted to the "potato" or random number answer, I'd just walk away and tell him I will help him when he's ready. It did take some tweaking of the rewards and consequences to get it right, but it really improved the atmosphere.

I never did it again, but my first year homeschooling, I did make a list of my state's topics for science to make sure my oldest was "keeping up." And it's hilarious now, but I just checked a couple extra books out of the library for the "gaps" (like we weren't otherwise doing the rock cycle but there were tons of library books on it). That did help me feel better. I really don't like to look at lists like "what your x grader should know" or what Charlotte Mason said all kids should be able to do. They stress me out! We place a premium on Latin and Greek and I doubt those would even show up in the lists, but we spend a lot of time on them. I do know it's a trade off. Can't have everything! But then, the homeschooling lifestyle means you can just surround yourself with books, so even in the summer, a trip to the library means your kids are learning.

There's a school of thought that says to ignore grade level and just keep going. And I think that's generally good advice. However, in those early grades, there is so much that is repeated in next year's book, and so much practice, and so many problems, that they don't literally need to do every single thing. When my son was most of the way through 3rd grade without having learned much, due to using a curriculum I thought was good but just wasn't working for us, I decided in desperation to just figure out what he needed to learn that year. I made a list of skills, and then bought Math Mammoth and selectively chose worksheets for those topics. It only took us about 6 weeks to entirely get through the main skills we were supposed to learn (multiplication tables, borrowing and carrying large numbers, etc.). And then when we started up again in the fall with 4th, there was review built in too. I don't know if that would result in a shaky "house of cards" for your child or not, but for us it was fine. In 2nd grade, you're mostly talking about adding and subtracting 1-3 digit numbers, with some borrowing and carrying. If you can get that solid, you can move on without having to do an entire year's worth of math pages. I don't know that that's worth it.

I don't know that I would allow for this as a preference. To me, that's like saying my kids don't like math or church or baths. I mean, they can be more or less enjoyable, but they are important. Listening to high quality, complex language patterns read by a parent or on CD is very different from reading silently or out loud yourself. They internalize those structures. Read Aloud Revival does a great job making this case, but you will find it in many studies as well. The only thing that might be a good enough substitute IMO is memorizing older poetry. It's crazy to watch your children stumble over unfamiliar constructions and archaic words but then slowly become completely fluent in them, not fazed at all by "neither/nor" or "if I could but see you.." or "how doth" etc. I felt convicted by the need for some kind of read aloud, but my kids are good readers and I hate reading aloud. So my husband took over this job and reads one chapter per night. It's become a bonding thing for him and the kids. But he did have to just decree that it was happening, no choice. The resistance was only in the oldest boy, and he quickly got into it too. They all grew to love it.

Here are some of the things I've seen that they have going for them: 1. The little kid level draws them in. It's most popular at the youngest age levels, with drop off after that. At those ages, the ability to recite lots of memory work looks really impressive, like a parlor trick. If your oldest kids are still K-2, you can feel very FOMO and worry that your kids can't recite all these things. It looks like they are speeding ahead. Plus this is the time, with young moms, when women love community and need confidence boosts. 2. They really drink and sell the koolaid on how great it is for the kids, that tons of them get into excellent colleges. I think there is zero evidence for this, since almost none seem to actually go through all the levels until graduation with CC. I knew one mom IRL who gave me the hard sell big time. She almost wouldn't take no for an answer, and was adamant that the memory work was hanging up "pegs" that would anchor all the later learning, that they were doing the very best in homeschooling. I demurred, and a year later she had started her own school with a different program and suddenly was willing to discuss all the things wrong with CC. I was just marveling that the koolaid was that strong even when she was secretly looking elsewhere. Partly that's because there's an internal focus on recruiting? 3. They force you to stay there, and while I consider that a negative, it does build community. The only mom I know now IRL who does CC is very defensive about it and knows all the things people have said about it. She just says she loves the accountability, the community, and if people don't want to do it, they don't have to, but it has been a blessing for their family. And that's what you most hear. The corporate might be awful, but locally the groups are loyal to their little circle of friends. Leaving would be like leaving your friends.

Hugs. This sounds really difficult. I don't know what I would do. Probably you are doing the best anyone can! I don't know what I would do with a girl. With a boy, it would feel easier to me. I have seen boys in this position, who seem to be making a very rational choice to live with parents indefinitely and let them take care of everything while they play video games, and in that situation it is easier to see why tough love is important -- cutting off video games and requiring rent or something to try to force the sense that their life is really theirs. But with a girl who just enjoys life, reading and crafting? I have a girl like that and it would be hurtful to "tough love" her. OTOH my sister in law was a lot like that and she leaned on my MIL for many years and she never really launched. She was so crafty and good with her hands, we tried to convince her to be a welder. Specialized welders are in such demand that they can make 200k, and after a short program even younger ones can start at 80k, and they are really desperate for women so they can almost write their own ticket. But that didn't appeal to her, since she was always kind of living with friends or relatives... I'm not saying that will happen to yours!!! Hopefully not. I'm just saying that is definitely the #1 most ridiculously important thing for the year. Finding some way to get her to understand that she won't be able to use you for support forever. One mom I knew said she was happy to have older kids living at home for free as long as they had a job and a plan - a real plan of what they were saving money for and what they would do, even if it was just saving for a backpacking trip in Belize. That's totally a good goal, the point is they can't just be lounging. That's awesome, but the time for that is over by 17, ya know? Man, that's tough. Good luck! You will find some ideas.

The thing that I would be most worried about and most focused on, if I were you, is the executive function skills for the 10th and 12th graders, with a HUGE focus on the 12th grader. There has GOT to be a way to get your 12th grader to have buy-in about what classes are planned, what resources are used, and exactly how this relates to the future for this child. If the child is planning college but needs a ton of hand-holding and isn't doing work independently, this is a recipe for a very expensive year failing freshman classes. If the child doesn't like the thought of college at all, then your plans for shakespeare or physics would be really missing the point. CHC is Catholic, but they have a book called "High school of your dreams" that emphasizes crafting classes for the child you really have with as much practical experience as possible. So maybe a biology class while volunteering with a vet's office, or a botany class while volunteering at a garden center, etc. Or a finance class with the many online investment simulators, or they can use a small amount of real money of their own. Etc. But at this point, so close to the end of your time together, you should not be spending large amounts of time "top-down" crafting syllabi to try to force your 12th grader to accomplish. This is the time to work on getting high schoolers some buy in with the classes, preferably looking at what they want their next plans in life to look like and crafting classes and resources *themselves* that will accomplish that goal. There's just so little time left now for you to let those reins go little by little, that you might need to let them go completely and let them fail even. It would be better to have a child fail and completely mess up their own senior year and have to work on 13th grade year or a GED or something, than to continue to hold their hands as long as possible and have them fail when they've spent $15k for the privilege. They have to get ownership some time..

What did you change to at that time?

I have used the first three books, starting in 4th and now finishing #3 in 5th. We really like it, but it's good to know a few things about it. First, there's definitely a very deliberate progression of difficulty. It's an easy gentle start with Fable, which also combines the best of CM techniques like oral (and in later books, written) narration, in addition to the progym idea of imitation. The amount of writing starts small and grows as the child is presumed to be aging into that expectation. Second, I would call this an excellent curriculum for playing with words, and having fun practicing. There is ample opportunity to read stories and change them, rewrite them, condense and lengthen, etc. This is not like the "check list" approach of IEW, so what you want will depend on how formulaic your child needs it to be. Third, you don't need to do every single exercise in each book. The goal, which is very transparent, is to practice a specific set of skills, and you can see in the table of contents and scope and sequence what those skills are and what lessons cover them. That way, if you are trying to do W&R along with a grammar program, like we are, you sometimes might need to skip a lesson in order to finish a book in a semester. But if you are careful about checking the TOC and noting your child's progress, it's not a problem. Also, I have heard many people say that Chreia and proverb was not as good - I don't think that should sink the program. We plan to skim that book to understand the skills and then move on. I have really enjoyed the program and don't want to let that apple spoil the bunch. Fourth, this is not a "submit a book report and get a grade with points given for the following" type program. It's practicing and playing and enjoying writing. I don't feel the need to drastically cut and require harsh edits before high school, unless the child isn't doing the work. But if you start to feel like you need more red pen, you can always do that, as each lesson has a large final writing assignment. Or you could add in a Lantern semester program so someone else can add the red pen. At the 5th-7th level, I want them to practice and learn. I don't want them to start hating it because they hate seeing every small error circled. Personally I think it's an engaging way to do the progym. I looked at MP's version and thought it spent a lot of time identifying and labeling the parts of the fable, like "the reversal" etc. ..but it seemed to me that this was like turning writing into a vocab exercise. I don't know. This is just one of those personal things - it rubbed me the wrong way. I want my kids to like writing and enjoy it and they generally do with this program, that breaks into bite size pieces that gradually get larger and more complex.

I have looked at the MP latin programs, and I have used LFC primers A and B with my oldest and Song School Latin 1 and 2 with younger kids. Our plan is to do one Primer per 2 years (3-4, 5-6, 7-8) and then a high school program. That is a bit slow but we take a break and study Greek in the spring around March to May. I have noticed it was harder on my son doing Primer A -- he is doing very well in B now and working more confidently and quickly now that he is older and has more latin under his belt. As to MP vs CAP, my experience is that people naturally fall into one of two camps: Camp 1 says: MP has clean, distraction-free pages. It is consistent and makes it easy for the student to know what to do every day. It is rigorous. It may not be "fun" but kids get joy out of learning and mastering a difficult subject, not by lame attempts to be funny or to pretend a serious subject is fun instead of serious, as CAP seems to do, which doesn't really respect kids as persons who don't need to be talked down to. When adults pick up a book, they don't need someone to try to make it fun for them. Camp 2 says: MP seems to be deliberately as dry as possible and really makes it hard to get kids engaged with it instead of just forcing them to do it because they have to. CAP's minimal attempts to use a few pictures, a little color, and a small storyline woven through the lessons isn't really a "lame joke," it's just a slightly more engaging and creative method. Lessons actually can be enjoyable and respect the child as a person by understanding that they might like a little enthusiasm and interest, as they aren't robots or computers. When adults pick up a book, it isn't uncommon to see a few pictures or interesting anecdotes, and no one suggests that a book by Malcolm Gladwell or Tim Harford is too interesting to be educational. (You can tell which camp I'm in.) In any event, the main issue of the OP, it seems, is not getting it done and the child kind of losing interest. I wonder if DVD lessons can help with this? He watches the video and listens to the cd, or you can do it together. That way no one is waiting for mom to teach it when both have time for it. The issue of his getting out of doing it could be a curriculum fit problem, or a discipline problem. Sometimes a program just isn't a good fit, and finding a program the child likes better could work wonders. Other times, the child just needs to be given his assignments and a clear expectation that he must do his work or there will be consequences, that he can't have screens, etc. until done. If you are in the MP camp all the way, you usually think it's always a discipline problem because kids don't like rigorous things and if it's fun it's because you're probably not working very hard. (Apologies if people disagree, but this is a common view in the MP forum.) Outside the MP camp, we often have fun with our subjects, and getting a kid engaged and enjoying even hard subjects is kind of why we HS at all. I would show him some other program options, including MP, CAP, Hey Andrew, Latin's not so tough, etc and see what he thinks. You can view samples online and even usually samples of the video lessons. Give him buy in, if he wants it.

I actually do feel a little like this. I love getting stacks of books from the library, but I noticed my son was very interested in certain subjects, but had no interest at all in biology and earth science. This year I decided to do a good text and workbook approach, especially since the library isn't open for browsing. I love that he still watches documentaries on subjects he cares about, but he really stretched himself this year learning about things he wouldn't otherwise have chosen. On the other hand, I really thought the interest based approach was more lively, and more exciting for the kids. I guess we try to combine a minimum spine/curriculum with interest topics added in their free time. But all this was much nicer when the library was open!

We've had the same trouble with a new car without a cd player. It really derails things. My suggestion, since your 6th grader is motivated, is just to get that child working independently on history. Gather a few high quality books and assign that day's reading and talk about it or assign a paragraph summary of the chapter or an outline (the "famous men of" series is good, or Dorothy Mills, or Our Island Story etc). Or there's book shark and sonlight too if she's really an eager reader. She's old enough to work at her own pace. Then you could do whatever clicks with your 4th grader, kind of unschooling or kid's choice - D'Aulaires Greek or Norse myths and bios are great. For 1st grade, that's so young. They won't remember content at all. Just have fun by doing some cultural or biography or geography picture books from the library. Sometimes when you try to get the perfect thing for everyone, it's paralyzing. Just get a decent match with the minimum of mom-work for each kid (i.e., doable independently except for the 1st grader) and call it good.

We have so many teenagers at our Friday enrichment program, and they are fantastic! They tend to look you in the eye and speak to you normally instead of being surly and silent and unable to carry on a conversation with anyone who isn't their age. They also are often passionate and enthusiastic about life and their interests rather than today's sort of jaded and cynical teen. Of course, every child is an individual, but you can see it just looking at the faces and body language of teens -- at my polling place, which is a middle school, everyone looks like their dog died! But it's not like that when you see homeschooled teens together, especially the girls. They have a joyfulness and modesty and artlessness that is striking. Just my experience though!

It's really excellent, I promise! Very practical! It's written with cartoons of what you want to say and what to say instead. There's a million examples, but one I used just today is, "give them their wish in fantasy." Your kid says she wants a granola bar but you don't have any, and yet she keeps screaming about a granola bar, and you're trying to nicely repeat some version of "I don't know how else to explain to you that I don't have one to give you" and yet she keeps screaming. Instead you say "I wish I had a granola bar. I wish I had a whole granola bar factory!! I wish I had one as big as a car." I swear, I dealt with crying kid for 10 minutes before I remembered this trick and the tears dried up in about 20 seconds. The punishment thing is definitely a bit of a 1970s throwback, but really they DO advocate punishment, they just like to call it "natural consequences." So like, instead of saying "you hit your sister? No screens for two days!" which just makes a kid feel wronged, you might say "because you used your trains as weapons, you now have to put them away for today. No more trains, we don't use them as weapons." One is a random act that a kid resents, and one is a natural consequence of their action. However, the punishment section is definitely the weakest of the book, because sometimes it's hard to see a natural consequence. Sometimes you just send your kid to the naughty corner or to their room, and you ignore that part of the book. But the rest is almost like magic. Like wizards wrote it. I could honestly give you a hundred examples from my half dozen kids.

I know this thread is super old, but I would put in a plug for "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk." Not homeschooling, but one of the best parenting manuals ever.

I took a look at the samples. I don't think it's a "con" of the program to say it's not SOTW. I mean, presumably people who have and love SOTW are not looking to replace it. I think it's a nice touch to cross reference the corresponding SOTW chapters for those who want to supplement with SOTW. It does look more schooly, but mostly it just reminds me of the countless library books my son would check out before covid: large text blocks, lots of pictures, timelines, infographics. If that is what your kid likes, it might work well. Personally, in our family, we have SOTW 1 in book form and the cd set, and the kids won't touch them. I have assigned them and read them aloud and they just don't like them, I don't know why. We also have tried an "all in one history/geography/lit" type program with lots of living books and historical fiction tie-ins, which was a disaster for our family, because too many littles spoiled it and I couldn't find time to get it all in. So, if the living books approach isn't for you, and you need more of a textbook, this looks good. It's engaging and colorful. It focuses on the ways ancient peoples lived and problem-solved, and has a lot of architecture and art and maps etc. In the "pros" column, I actually think it does a good job trying to cover a LOT of the world, which is why it takes 2 years. And that makes sense, since it is very hard to do a good job on both Greece and Rome in one year (MP breaks it into 2 years), let alone Greece and Rome AND all the rest of the ancient world. So this program does Greece and Rome in the 2nd year and that gives it time to do a thorough job of Ancients without those 2 civilizations taking all the time. Personally, I find Greece and Rome to be the most interesting part of the ancient world, so I would get bored with year 1, but maybe I'm not giving enough credit to non-western history. They do cover the Bhagavad Gita etc so there's some real depth there. In the "cons" column, I totally agree that the scope and sequence proposed are unrealistic. If ancients is 2 years, you automatically are talking about at least a 5 or 6 year sequence. All of the early and high middle ages are in one year, AND they are attempting to be worldwide and not just western. And then year 4 is literally everything that happened worldwide from the 1600s to the present. That's crazy. Most people find that doing all of your own country's history in one year (UK, American, etc) is a lot to cram in, let alone everyone else's too. I also think the tone was a little too conversational or dumbed down ("that's a funny-sounding word, but it just means..."). That's odd, because who is that for? Older or curious students won't need that tone, and parents reading aloud to younger kids won't appreciate it. But poor students and younger students that tone is aimed at probably won't actually read the large blocks of text and will stick to skimming and reading the captions. But, it's not a deal breaker and wasn't too obnoxious, IMO. Overall, it struck me as a good all-in-one textbook approach for those kids who like this type of colorful nonfiction book with lots of timelines and pictures, and for those moms who don't have time to do a big history-centered living books hands on approach and want to just have a go-to easy resource to hand to a kid with his assignments for the day. It's also good for people who want a fuller worldwide picture with plenty of focus on China, India and other non-western history. Those were my impressions, but it's just a sample of course.