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Posts posted by TCB

  1. 26 minutes ago, KSera said:

    Yes, I remember your brother's blood clot clearly, and those things do occasionally happen unfortunately, but that's different from the second hand reports of unverified information. I've noticed a very strong correlation that it's almost always anti-vax people that have all these stories, and people who are vaccinated very rarely do. It's uncanny enough to notice. The vaccinated people who know someone who had a bad reaction usually know of one case and it is a verified thing, not a list of a bunch of people they think died after the vaccine. It just doesn't match up with the real world to think that there are all these people dying of the vaccine yet no one is recording it. The insinuation would have to be that doctors don't care and wouldn't report it if this were happening, which is a really crappy thing to suggest about doctors (and the medical examiner or coroner would have to be going along with it as well). Nurses would be seeing it as well. So, it does leave one scratching their head.

    The whole thing is pretty disheartening. I don’t even know what to say, but truth is very hard to come by these days. I work in a hospital. I would have thought that if so many vaccination deaths were occurring then I would have seen at least some there. I’m fairly certain that if there were serious frequent issues New Zealand would be seeing lots of it as they’ve vaccinated so many. It’s ironic really but the same people I know who said that many deaths were being wrongfully labeled as Covid, are now saying they’re vaccine deaths. All I can bear witness to is that I have seen many people actually die of Covid and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone die from vaccination.

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  2. 13 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

    My brother had blood clots from Astra zennica. 3 days after his second dose. He was hospitalised twice and given anti coagalents introvinously. 

    I remember he had problems but hadn’t realized he was hospitalized. I hope he’s better now.

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  3. 12 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

    Serious side effects are extremely rare. I forget what the rates are - much less than the same risk of blood clotting due to Covid.

    There was an article a little while ago talking about how we're doing better than the UK in dealing with severe AZ-related side effects, mostly just to do with patient and health care education. People come in earlier with headache/abdominal pain; potential complications recognized/treated earlier. 

    Reports, though, have probably dropped off due to greater use of Pfizer. People definitely have died as a result of their AZ vaccination. 

    Don’t want to give the impression that I don’t believe there are serious effects, that are rare. Maybe it is the use of Pfizer which has changed things there. It was interesting to note that there had not been any comments recently, and that seemed interesting since so many vaccinations were being given. I hope that the people who believe that thousands are dying from the mRNA vaccines, might be able to look at another country and maybe begin to question that. 

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  4. I was wondering if those of you from Australia and New Zealand could comment on if there are reports of serious side effects etc from the vaccines now that your countries are vaccinating so many people so quickly. In the initial stages of the vaccination program in Australia some of you seemed to be reporting a possible vaccine related death quite frequently, but I had not seen that for a while.

    I believe the vaccines to be very safe from what I’ve read, and seen myself, but of course the rumors swirl around on social media, and I talk to vaccine hesitant people who believe them. I suggested to a couple of people at work, that if they wanted to know the truth, they should keep up with how things are going in New Zealand, as they are vaccinating so many.

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  5. 13 hours ago, MercyA said:


    This is not true of me and not true of the other active pro-lifers I have known. 

    If I painted pro-choice people with such a broad brush, I'd be immediately taken to task for it. 

    First of all Mercy I know that that is absolutely not true of you.

    In my opinion a big problem we have in this country (USA) is that many people from the 2 political sides tend to demonize the other side. I have heard people from the right and left say that the other group is aiming for complete control and it terrifies them.

    I think we need voices of reason to prevail and that does not seem to be happening and that is so sad, and in my opinion should “terrify” all of us if we are going to be terrified about anything.

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  6. I’ve always felt like I was different than most people, other than a few that had the same unusual childhood as me. Where I lived before I always felt different but accepted, even though I was strange to them lol, and I had a number of really good friends. Where I live now I feel different from everyone, but here I don’t feel acceptable, and I have mostly only acquaintances and really only 2 people, outside my family, that I would call friends. I’m not sure how much that bothers me or not. I’d like to have a really good friend or 2 but may be out of luck with that. When I see my old friends, from my previous location, it’s like we’ve never been apart and we just carry on where we left off.

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  7. 6 hours ago, BronzeTurtle said:

    Bill, if that is your real name, all I said was that they should be able to make their own decision on the vaccine without getting fired. If they are at the breaking point, i would like to afford them that grace to not have to lose their job over it. if they are at the breaking point, then they should not be fired from already understaffed and overworked healthcare facilities. if hospitals want to make it a requirement of new hires, fine. but let's not fire people who worked this whole time, to the breaking point, who elect not to have it now. if no nurses are getting fired for not taking the vaccine, if i am just making that up, then i will apologize for denying reality.

    I’m a nurse and I work with some people who are refusing to get vaccinated. I can tell you from talking to them that, for many of them,  a lot of their reasoning is based on the circulating conspiracies and their political affiliations , or that they are not well informed at all. I don’t want them to lose their jobs, and I hope it does not come to that. I don’t think a vaccine mandate is an effective tool at the moment. What troubles me though, is that some of them are also inclined to not wear their masks as per the hospital rules. This isn’t all of them at all, but I think that the morally correct thing to do would be to be scrupulous about protecting others as much as they possibly can. It’s quite sickening to me how much politics plays in the actions taken during a public health event. Some of the behavior of those I thought were kind, caring people makes me sick at heart. 

    ETA - I thought I should clarify that some of the nurses I work with, although I feel they are misinformed, are not who I was meaning when I mentioned unkind behavior. They have cared for people wonderfully well and worked extremely hard, but have been influenced by the misinformation being spread around as far as the vaccine is concerned.

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  8. 31 minutes ago, SKL said:

    That is a whole other topic and a distraction from what I was talking about.

    I have always said I believe employers have a right to require things, although it may get iffy when it involves medical information, which is supposed to be protected by privacy laws.  It isn't a straightforward matter in any case, but employers should not lose rights they currently have.

    I haven't read the anti-mandate legislation.  I don't necessarily trust the headlines as far as what the legislation actually requires/bans.  That said, I assume that to some degree, such legislation is a response to other authoritarian acts that [allegedly] go too far in the other direction.

    I thought this would be your answer.

    ETA It sounds like what is informing your position is your opinion and not a principle you believe in.

  9. 5 minutes ago, SKL said:

    If I as an employer want to influence people to vaccinate, I need more flexibility to do it in a way that makes sense.  Maybe an incentive rather than a threat.  And targeted to the occupations involving the greater risk of catching and spreading Covid.  Or if I'm gonna fire people, let me do it on my own timetable, so I have the opportunity to transition the work, continue customer care, and help employees transition to their new situation.  Or let me decide to put some people on remote duty until cases are lower.  Please don't pretend you're doing businesses a favor by tying their hands like this.

    So what do you think about the places that are tying businesses hands by passing laws saying they can’t mandate vaccines or masks?

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  10. 9 minutes ago, Bootsie said:  

    I am specifically talking about using OSHA to require employers to require their employees to vaccinate.  If the employer is going to require it anyway, there is no need for the OSHA requirement.  That is simply an added government regulation that isn't doing anythning but adding uncessary paperwork and bureacracy.  So, if the starting assumption is that employers will require vaccine as a requirement for working, then using OSHA to ensure it is not necessary.   

    The trouble is, I think, that some places have so many militant anti-vax, anti-mask people that an employer finds it very difficult to implement something they believe to be the right thing to do, because the push back and intimidation is huge. How can an employer do that somewhere like your state, Texas I believe, where the governor bans them from doing so? I think that is why the federal government acted on this. 
    I honestly don’t know what I think of vaccine mandates, and I don’t know it it’s going to help, but there appears to be a war of intimidation going on by a certain portion of our population, along with election seeking politicians, that is not allowing others the rights they should have. Do you think it is right to give in to this intimidation?

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  11. 19 minutes ago, Evelyn2108 said:

    This is not a strictly USA forum, I’m from Canada and 12yo are mandated with vaccine passports in most of the country.  

    If your definition of productive means I have to agree with you, then I’m afraid I will fall short.

    Where are these vaccine passports mandated for? What type of places? I realize there are people from many places on the forum. I’m from the UK myself, but live in the US. 

    I don’t define a productive discussion as being one in which everyone agrees. I have found though, that someone who almost immediately comes up with the whole Nazi thing, isn’t usually open to hearing other people’s points of view. Maybe you’re different.

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  12. 5 minutes ago, Evelyn2108 said:

    Why would this interest me? I’m the one who raised his Twitter account. I’m well aware of his body of work and generally agree with the majority of his positions.  

    He advises at risk populations to get vaccinated, but doesn’t recommend for healthy children. There’s a lot more nuance then that... 

    I don’t think anyone on here has said they think healthy children should be mandated to have the vaccine, rather that they want children, and parents, to have the option to be vaccinated. As far as I’m aware, other than California schools, there aren’t mandates for children.

    It’s a bit hard to have a productive discussion, by the way, when you move the goal posts. To be fair though, I don’t really get the impression that you are after a productive discussion.

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  13. 1 hour ago, Evelyn2108 said:

     Yes, mRNA have been in the work for decades. Have you seen Dr Robert Malone’s position on them? He invented the technology decades ago.  Check him out on Twitter. 

    All vaccines previously released to the public were studied for 3-7+ years.  MANY vaccines never made it to the general public because they had long term side effects. We simply don’t know, and just because YOU are ok with that gamble, doesn’t automatically make some other mother selfish because she’s not comfortable with that gamble on her child’s life. 

    This might interest you.


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  14. 23 minutes ago, BronzeTurtle said:

    I think it is only a straw man if your argument doesn't involve valuing life. A PP made this argument so I think it's a fair point. The fact that people don't want to get into it is another matter, but it's not a straw man if someone else brings up the point of the value of life itself as a reason to get vaccinated. 

    Not related to the above, but I am definitely confused about where exactly the encouragement not to get vaccinated is coming from. I know people complain about a certain channel, and while I don't have cable, lately any time I have been in a random place where that channel happens to be on, I have noticed the hosts having on people like Francis Collins or other scientists and the hosts themselves say things like, "Well, let's just hope more people get the vaccine." This is mostly during the day, not primetime so maybe there is a difference, but it's been weird to actually have occassion to see that sort of thing when I see other people complaning that source of news is anti-vax in particular.

    I do think there is some inconsistency in forcing people to a point of personal suffering to get the vaccine. It's for your health so we are going to take away your job and ability to operate in society unless you do it seems to be rife with logical fallacies plus the fact that you can make pretty much anyone do pretty much anything if they feel desperate enough. that doesn't mean it's good to push people into a place of desparation so they will do what you (general) think is best for them. It worries me that people think this is a legitimate use of government force (in places where vaccine proof is required to go inside, etc.). It definitely goes against what I know of to be optimum public health strategy even in pandemic times. It is very reminisent of how people, including kids and hemophiliacs, were treated during the aids crisis. 

    I also am weirded out by the idea that you can't have a titer or antibody test instead of a vaccine to satisfy any of these requirements, especially now that we know so much more than we did both about immunity from covid + transmission ability of vaccinated persons. It just seems to be brute forcing the vaccine when I think there are other scientific approaches that would be more inclusive and give back some trust to people who think they had covid, might be worried about side effects (esp. if they are male and younger) and they don't understand why they would be forced out of work for not getting a vaccine for a disease they already had when they had to work thru the pandemic before vaccines were available.

    That to say I think there are better public health strategies than ostracization, causing pain of job loss, sweeping unflexible mandates, etc.

    I don’t know what to think about mandates, but I don’t necessarily think the primary purpose of mandating a vaccine is for the good of the individual getting it. I think it comes from a public health perspective of trying to end the pandemic as soon as possible. It’s not perfect but being vaccinated does reduce your chances of getting infected and reduces your chances of passing it on if you do get infected. For vaccinations to help to end the pandemic there needs to be sufficient people vaccinated to reduce transmission, to enable it to end. Somehow, by hook or by crook, I think, from a public health perspective, you have to get sufficient people vaccinated. Not saying I agree with all the methods and tactics, but I can understand, academically where they are coming from.

    The main problem, in my opinion, throughout the pandemic, is that we have had to try and get people to act in the best interests of others, and not just themselves, and sadly there is a tremendous resistance to that. I’m really sad because I now realize that that is the kind of society I have to live in, and I really don’t want it to be so.

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  15. What upsets me most is the information they are using to inform their decision not to get vaccinated. My ex pastor’s wife is stridently anti Covid vax on social media. I have looked at every single piece of information she has posted and linked to and it is just downright bad and untrue information. Most of the time the links quoted in the articles don’t say what the article says they do. If you even were to click on the linked information and even thought about it at all you would come away with something very different than the article headline. I can only assume that she doesn’t bother examining any of the so called evidence for the claims. Every source she posts is politically motivated. Who uses politics to inform their health decisions? I just don’t understand that.

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  16. 12 minutes ago, KSera said:

    They have shown that no vaccine components even pass into breast milk, so there’s no conceivable way it would be vaccine related. Sad that people spreading it around are far more likely to end up contributing to the death of a pregnant or nursing mother than to help anyone at all. People don’t seem to have a handle on the fact that something happening in the weeks after someone got a vaccine doesn’t mean that thing was caused by the vaccine. 

    Unfortunately I think it is not only that they don’t understand that there may very well be no connection between the two events, but they also have no interest in understanding that, and wish to grasp on to anything that confirms their fears. I would not want to bear the responsibility of passing on false information if I were them.

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  17. 7 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

    This is really frightening to me, especially because the anti-vaxers I know are very strident in trying to persuade pregnant women not to get vaccinated. There is also a story about a breast fed baby who died a few weeks or a month after the mother was vaccinated, that is all over social media at the moment. I tried to look into it some more and it does not seem clear cut at all that it was a result of the vaccine, but not many details. And I keep thinking of the number of unborn babies that die because their mothers are seriously ill with Covid.

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  18. 9 hours ago, Katy said:

    Years ago I heard that kids were best off if their parents stayed together, even if they are unhappy, unless there was abuse or addiction involved. Does anyone know where that came from and if it’s still considered true? 

    No, not asking for me.  A friend is miserable, her husband cheated but confessed and apologized, and she isn’t sure what to do. Emotionally she’s out, but worried about her kids. There’s no abuse or addiction.

    Unless the situation is unbearable for her, I think it is really important to think very carefully about how she will feel having to share custody of her children. How will she feel not having them every Christmas etc, dealing with important occasions like graduations and weddings, grandchildren etc, when her children may have to take turns between their parents. That doesn’t just end when they grow up. There are still Christmas and other holidays and important life events to negotiate. 
    I don’t know the right answer for everyone, but I think it is very good to consider those things when deciding what to do.

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  19. That is wonderful! My dh had an exposure 2 weeks ago that I thought would be inescapable. He was in a room for an hour with someone the day before they were symptomatic and tested positive. But both of them were vaccinated, my dh with Moderna, and no symptoms and dh tested negative. I think I hear so much about the breakthrough cases and not much about the ones that don’t, so your story is encouraging. On the other hand, I continue to see how protective, against serious illness, vaccines are at my work place.

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  20. 6 hours ago, KSera said:

    It sounds like you've bought into some really extreme ideas about public schools. I've homeschooled all of my children from the start, because I chose to, despite being in an "excellent" school district, so I'm not defending because I'm part of the system. It just looks obvious that someone wants people to be really angry about this, and it's worth asking who wants you to be angry and why.

    It is interesting to see all the attempts going on to manipulate us through social media etc. That probably makes me sound like a conspiracy theorist lol, but I have noticed it a lot during this pandemic, usually as a way to deflect attention away from something else, I think. For instance, initially there was a lot of stuff about Covid being just the flu and no big deal, or even completely false, then, when that became a difficult position to hold, there was a huge interest in human trafficking, or at least that was where the focus shifted with the people I know. At the same time those people were calling other people sheep, and it just seemed so ironic to me when they seemed to be so susceptible to obvious manipulation themselves.

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  21. 21 minutes ago, frogger said:

    I feel that CRT and mask mandates are totally different issues but it appears that America is big on group think. If I agree on one thing with this or that group, I must agree on everything with them. It is sad that people must be fed their thoughts. 


    I doubt this will conversation will go anywhere. It has already conglomerated two totally unrelated things but I have to say it is helpful to read the history of the 1918 flu and how all the nut cases appeared out of the woodwork then. 

    Oh and the Bible starts with Cain asking if he is his brother's keeper and John who wrote the last 4 books of the Bible saying, "He that loveth not is not of God for God is love." So I'm pretty sure that woman never actually read the Bible which has submitting to the needs of others from beginning to end. 



    Anyone thinking the Bible promotes people fighting for their individual rights, above all else, has not read it, or at least not understood it. In my opinion people get mixed up with what it means to be an American, and what it means to be a Christian. I find it really offensive to see that women attempting to use the Bible to defend her ideas and actions.

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  22. 3 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:


    You think that "both sides" are equally engaging in this sort of behavior and ridiculous rhetoric?

    Maybe not about the same things, but I do think that people on both extremes are equally intolerant of the other side. I don’t think the answer lies on either extreme. I think it lies somewhere in the middle, where tolerance really can exist. If we are to live in a community we can’t have everything our own way. 

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  23. 7 minutes ago, hshibley said:

    Have you been to any of your local school board meetings recently? Ours here have become out of control with parents screaming nonstop and acting out to the point of the room being cleared by the sheriffs department several months in a row. Meetings have had to be stopped mid meeting because they could not insure the safety of the school board members and others attending the meetings. This is not normal behavior and it’s perpetrated by one side. It started with crt and has move to mask mandates. 

    I agree. That’s what they’re like around here too. Not sure what the answer is, but I don’t think patently obvious biased rhetoric, from either side, is it. I wish that more measured voices could be heard in this country, but it seems the appetite is all for extremes.

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