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GracieJane

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Posts posted by GracieJane

  1. 13 minutes ago, bolt. said:

    I came back because I have a strong desire to analyze the Proverbs 31 woman with you.

    Here's what she's like:

    - Trustworthy, honourable, dignified, confident (v.11,23,25,28,29,31)

    - Good-hearted and benevolent to her husband (v.12)

    - Vigorous, physically capable (v.17)

    - Wise, a good advisor (v.26)

    - Spiritual (v.30)

    Here's what she does:

    - Oversees breakfast preparations, with the help of (not one, but multiple) servants (v.15)

    - Shops while going for a walk in an open air market (v.13,14)

    - Crafts flax into luxury textiles (v.13,19,21,22,24) (probably with servants)

    - Occasionally does real estate transactions (v.16)

    - Directs the work of an overseer and workers a vineyard business in her own name, (v.16)

    - Manages the trading of products generated household's various independently managed businesses, including her own flax work, but mostly in a literacy, record keeping, and coordination role (v.18,27)

    - Directs the household's charitable activities (v.20)

    Please notice:

    0% cooking. 0% cleaning. 0% childcare. 10% errands.

    This is not the same life. But it's not a harder-working life either. If anything, with the support of all those servants, and mostly being in the role of management and direction, it sounds a bit easier. Physically at least. This is the life of a noblewoman, a partner in the activities of a large household and the co-owner of multiple businesses and properties -- kind of like what we would think of as an estate. She's an ancient-world princess, and you're not. But that doesn't make your work meaningless. It's just different.

    This is such a great outline! 

    I was thinking about the twin sins of idleness and self-indulgence yesterday, and why they were particularly coded “female” in my childhood (as opposed to say, lust, which was uniquely male). The “busy at home”, “bread of idleness” and the “gossipy women going house to house” scriptures were the sort of antithesis to the aspirational feminine virtues of self-control and industry.

    There was this story repeated in my church, about a well-loved and respected older woman who got cancer and would still put on makeup and smile so as not to worry her adult children. She never complained or bemoaned her plight. Her grace under suffering (or stoicism?) was modeled as this particularly feminine heroic ideal, and it always stuck with me. Maybe that’s why I feel so guilty about “laziness”, that resting when others are working is a sort of “calling attention” to your burden (?). I have no idea if any of this makes sense, but this feminine amalgam of Proverbs 31 industry and warnings of gossipy, idle women are coded in my religious DNA. But it’s often hard to separate (for me) what is biblical and what is temperamentally warped in my own constitution, so I appreciate your scripture counterbalance. 

    • Like 1
  2. 3 hours ago, silver said:

    All trimesters are tiring, since your body is doing so much to keep you and the baby alive and help the baby grow and develop. I'm not sure where you're at in pregnancy., but if you're in the 1st trimester, give yourself even more grace, because your body is doing extra work as it grows the placenta (growing a whole new body organ!) and the baby. After the placenta is grown enough to take over some of the job, some (not all!) of the exhaustion lessens (although having young kids at home to take care of can mean that the fatigue lasts a lot longer).

    I once read that Proverbs 31 was not written as a checklist for women to strive for (or men to look for in a future wife) but more of a song of praise that the husbands would sing to their wives at the evening meal before Sabbath. It was recognition of all the hard work that women put into making a household run smoothly. So women should instead take it as validation of our often overlooked work being valued (instead of as condemnation of not being enough). 

    It's already been mentioned, but women past had extended families to help out. You can see here that women understand that pregnancy is exhausting. In generations past, the women of the family, knowing this exhaustion, would come alongside their sisters and daughters and nieces and help them with their household. We tend not to have that anymore, and you shouldn't hold yourself individually to the standard that was only kept by multiple women working together.

    This is a season. It does not define who you are or your worth. 

    I am in the first trimester and have three sweet children under 10 years old. I’m so thankful for them! But wow, I’m tired today. 🙂

    • Like 2
  3. 7 minutes ago, smstjohn said:

    There are several things I want to say right off after reading this.

    The first being that you are doing real work. Your body is helping another whole person to grow. It's exhausting! And this being the fourth one, I'm sure the other kids need some care as well. Even if they are watching a bit more, you are still caring for them. Making sure they are safe, clean, and nourished.

    I also despise the guilt associated with Proverbs 31, and I say that as a Christian. From what I've heard, it's not a "real" woman but a picture of what to look for, for one. And also she seems to run her household with multiple layers of servants of some sort. I might be wrong, but I'm guessing you don't have a full staff looking over your household affairs...

    Please be gentle with yourself. Rest when you can from the hard work you are doing when you are up and the work you're even doing while resting(you know, GROWING a person!) 

    As a Christian, your worth is not found in the work you do. Love on your family as well as you are able and also extend that kindness to yourself.

    This is so sweet, thank you. Idleness and self-indulgence were the major “Christian girl” sins taught growing up (since modesty and chastity were a given) and here I am…in my 30s and still feeling guilty. 

    • Sad 2
  4. I was raised with hardworking parents in a Baptist community that prizes hard work, and married a hardworking man. I feel so guilty about laziness, eating “the bread of idleness” so-to-speak. 
     

    I’m pregnant with our fourth child and just tired. Like physically, I just want to lay down and do nothing. However this makes me so anxious and I have that Proverbs 31 woman scolding me with the hardworking ghosts of women past who definitely didn’t allow their children to watch Netflix in order to nap. 😞 I’m sure I could go to therapy for this but obviously that would require the self-indulgence of an hour spent discussing my feelings. 
     

    *sigh* No real point here, other than commiseration with anyone who is tired today.

    • Sad 15
  5. Someone posted a book a while back that helped her organize homework with her ADHD son. I think it had a yellow cover. I am searching high and low for that thread to find out what the book is called, to no avail. Does anyone know what I'm referring to or did I just totally dream this up? My son is 9 and I am desperate to help him develop a simple system to organizing his schoolwork (tasks, due dates, papers, etc.) independently. Thank you!

  6. This is fascinating topic. I know a lot of women who either get no presents or late-night-run-to-the-store trinkets from their husbands. I wonder if these husbands would feel weird getting nothing for their birthdays or Christmas? 

    I get the exact same thing from my DH for my birthday every year and I love it: an Amazon gift card, my favorite candy, a soda and Hot Cheetos. For Christmas, it’s the most current generation Kindle. Maybe the bar is low, but I’m happy to get something 1. I like and 2. is wrapped and ready on the occasion.

    I wonder if it’s easier to men to be told “I want x and z for my birthday” than to wait for them to creatively think of a gift.

  7. Everyone has their own bed in our house (DH and I have a queen). 8 -, and 6 year old brothers have a bunk bed, but inevitably fall asleep together on the lower bunk. 4 year old sister falls asleep in her own bed, but ends up in our bed sometime at night. The boys come to our bed in the morning too (it gets crowded).

    My parents were very strict about not co-sleeping for good sleep hygiene. 

    Is it weird for none of my kids to sleep alone? Will this effect their sleep cycles longterm?

  8. On 7/23/2022 at 1:48 PM, pmeilaen said:

    I had the same situation when my oldest was born over 20 years ago.  I am a native German, married to an American and living in the U.S.  I decided to NEVER speak English to my son and his four siblings, who were born after him.  That meant German in front of in-laws and other people who did not speak German.  That caused some misunderstandings, but I tried to keep my talking brief if other people were around.  I also only read German books to them when they were little and sang German songs.  All of my children learned German first before they ever spoke a word of English.  What really helped was that my husband also became fluent in German and German became our weekend language: My husband spoke English to the children during the week, but German on the weekends.  When my children discovered that there were two languages in their lives and tried to speak English to me, I simply ignored them if it was a non-emergency.  I told them I did not understand their English when it was addressed to me.  Since they were little when I said that they thought that that was the way it was and never tried English again.  When they got older, they had to learn to read and write in German as well as English and now I can read Goethe's Faust with my high school students.  English is their strong language and they tend to speak English among themselves, but they have beautiful German and still speak German to me all the time.  So, don't give up and don't make a big deal out of it.  If children realize that you want them to speak German, it will probably backfire.  I think the German language school you are trying is a good idea.  It shows your children that other children their age also speak German.  We tried a school like that while living in London and it was an interesting experience for them.  All my relatives are German and so my children have to speak to them in German.  Maybe you could find some people who don't speak English and then your children would notice that German can come in handy.  

    Thank you! I love that you spoke German exclusively to your children. 🙂 I am just *now* speaking German with my kids in front of others. It was so deeply ingrained in me that you speak the common language in the company of others that I hesitated for a long time. But now I’m realizing strangers really don‘t care that much what you are saying to your kids. It was a weird etiquette hurdle to overcome but now it seems much easier to stay on language all day!

  9. 6 hours ago, HazelAnne said:

    There are several “safe kids ministry” websites I found years ago when helping with kids ministry. I’d link one, but I can’t remember which I’ve read through.
     

    But some policies frequently used are: Requiring an adult to sign kids in and out of class,  background checks on workers, having two unrelated adults be in each classroom, allergy labels, etc. 
     

    Thank you! There are many great curricula, but for whatever reason I can’t seem to find this type of information. 🙂


    I am looking for a good tag system (like sticker labels to match parent-and-child) and ways of “streamlining” the Sunday School process. How do you manage volunteer schedules? How often do you email parents? Stuff like that. I guess people assume that stuff is more intuitive than the class content itself, but it’s not for me!

  10. 1 hour ago, Harriet Vane said:

    Absolutely the best training tool I have ever used in many years directing children's programs:

    Follow Me As I Follow Christ, by Cheryl Dunlop

    https://www.amazon.com/Follow-Me-As-Christ-Teaching-ebook/dp/B003719G6I/ref=sr_1_1?crid=27HOPCTX4IVF3&keywords=follow+me+as+i+follow+christ+cheryl+dunlop&qid=1655866469&sprefix=follow+me+as+i+follow+christ+cheryl+dunlop%2Caps%2C72&sr=8-1

     

    Chapters are short and wonderfully practical. Absolutely the best thing I have read about teaching children the Bible accurately (and how to apply an accurate teaching framework within church curriculum). Gorgeous celebration of the child's spirit. This should be required reading for anyone who directs a church children's ministry, and it's also a fantastic resource for providing training for volunteers (either assigning a chapter to be read for book discussion at a training meeting or the leader can use the book as a springing-off point to teach from).

    Thank you, I just ordered it after reading the intro!

    • Thanks 1
  11. 5 minutes ago, SKL said:

    It's also really interesting to look at how violence (and other societal measures) vary in the US from region to region, regardless of gun laws and gun ownership numbers.  There are large areas where the crime rates are as low as in most advanced countries.  But, is it even logical to compare the entire US to so-called "first world countries"?

    The US is huge and distinct in its diversity. I grew up in Europe and roll my eyes at arguments about “but Sweden/Switzerland/Norway does education/healthcare/etc. this way” like Switzerland literally has 2 million people less than the population of Los Angeles. I really don’t think people grasp the universe of difference between the size of the US and other advanced economies.

    • Like 8
  12. The US is generally more violent than other first-world countries; you can eliminate all gun-related homicides and the number of stabbings, brutal beatings, etc. are still enormous. 
     

    If you look up the Gini coefficient, it is one of the single most studied and replicable sociological indexes; any communities that have very wide economic variances between richest and poorest are far more violent than communities with smaller wealth gaps. The absolute poverty of the community matters in that sense less than the relative wealth gap. The US is striking in its enormous chasm between the wealthiest and poorest. My neighborhood (Los Angeles) has multi-million dollar homes and luxury cars and simultaneously the largest population of homeless people in the country. It also has very strict gun law, which does nothing to control the violence. There are so many historic and cultural reasons for this, but it won’t get any better. I think we are heading towards more segregated living.

    • Like 6
    • Sad 1
  13. I would like to increase the time spent on individual subjects with my 7 year old. Until now, he has done short sequences with breaks, multiple times per day (e.g. math for 20 minutes in the morning, repeat in the afternoon). He reads on his own for 1 focused hour daily. I would like to switch to more block scheduling, but because he is accustomed to short bursts of concentration, he is resistant. How can I get to longer stretches of school?

  14. 17 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

    Is this thread referencing a specific site or index?  Because I looked at the Global Health Security Index and other than a few specifically Covid related markers (zoonotic disease, trade and travel indications and risk communication), the US is doing pretty well with most things either staying the same or better than before 2019. 

    The Millennial generation is on a much lower trajectory of wealth accumulation than their parents and grandparents.”

    https://www.newamerica.org/millennials/reports/emerging-millennial-wealth-gap/

    Generation Z has a higher obesity rate than any generation prior:

    “The percentage of obese children in the United States aged 6 to 11 increased from 7 percent in 1980 to 18 percent in 2012, according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). And, during the same time period, the percentage of obese teenagers aged 12 to 19 increased from 5 percent to 21 percent.”

    https://www.binghammemorial.org/Health-News/childhood-obesity-on-the-rise
     

    Generation X and millennials are in worse health than their parents and grandparents were at their age.”

    “Both generations were worse off when it came to "physiological dysregulation," which includes problems like elevated blood pressure and cholesterol, excess belly fat, and substances in the blood that suggest the body is in a state of chronic inflammation.

    https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20210325/gen-x-millennials-in-worse-health-than-prior-generations

    • Thanks 1
  15. 39 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

    I have been wracking my brain trying to see what is bothering me so much about this premise. I guess it’s such a middle class thing to say. Does this mean that low income people shouldn’t have children because they can’t guarantee a better financial outcome for their kids?  Does that mean that they love their children less?  

    The principle is Don’t Make Things Worse. Ideally, successive generations do better than their parents (by whatever metric that is, but health and financial stability are the ones which are getting worse now). 

    • Like 3
  16. 3 minutes ago, Clarita said:

    I don't believe parents are obligated to make sure their kids do better than they did. I mean there are so many things that are out of control for the parents, that I can't imagine this even making sense. 

    I will absolutely give my kids the best opportunity that I can possibly muster up to make sure my kids have better than I did. Just as my parents did for me. (My grandparents through circumstance could not do that for their children.)  There is zero shame though in my family for asking a child how their career choice is going to be financially stable or lucrative. 

    To the envy of my MIL and my mom and the chagrin of my husband, I probably will be the grandma who moves to be able to take care of the grandbabies for my kids. 

    This is interesting! There is a wide spectrum of grand-parent help in my experience; my parents rarely (once or twice a year) babysit our children. My friend’s mom moved into their house to care for the children while my friend worked. I suppose this goes along with the concept of filial obligations, and maybe some of it’s cultural.

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