OK, he probably does have grounding in grammar but it's very rusty and I really have no idea how much he had. There's a lot you can do in English, too, that you can't do in most other European languages in their formal forms. He has not, unfortunately, kept up on his German. It's really too bad as he spoke technically perfect German for his age and it was a huge surprise to us when his fourth grade Grundschule teacher told us he was eligible. Many native speakers in his class did not qualify. I agree, he needs to be on board with this. At the moment, I'm really trying different baits to see if he bites at any of them. Trying not to shove anything down his throat as that's what we're specifically trying to get away from. I wish I'd had more logic as a kid, or even just more philosophy in general in undergrad. I tell everyone who asks me about going to law school (I'm an attorney among other things) that Philosophy is the best pre-law program there is. Logic will improve your LSAT score and probably help in classes like Contracts particularly. Ethics will make Torts so much easier to grok and generally make you a better lawyer. Both will improve writing. I was fortunate to finish my undergrad at a Jesuit school, which basically required a minor in philosophy and religion; I could have used a lot more though.

I have more than one child. ? The others are in public school at the moment but I anticipate that changing and, in any case, I'll be augmenting. This one only brought me to look at the lists of Great Books. I agree it's not practical to cover a lot of material with him. Though, at the same time, I know that I had a particular interest in Eastern literature in my late teens and was frustrated by the lack of support there was for that (which at the time was pretty much maxed out at parental help getting to Waldenbooks! Teachers were of little help). Had I had more support in this area, I think I might have gone on to study it formally. Additionally, this child is not likely to go directly into college. This year, and possibly next will be recovery years, with the possibility of travel abroad next year.

Not saying they're all worthless, just most of the ones that I've seen have not been great. I'll check out World Masterpieces. Thanks! The focus on the great works is a way of approaching learning that I particularly agree with. Though I agree that the works of Hawthorne and Melville are important works, they largely belong with their time period and region of study, to my mind. There are significant works from non-Egyptian Africa, at least Nubia and Ethiopia, from the Late Medieval period (much earlier and more widespread works exist but are not really usable below the graduate level of study if at all). Though in many cases reading about these periods and places may be a necessary substitute, particularly when talking about Sub-Saharan and West Africa.

Excellent suggestions, thank you! Kind of. But not much more so that most of the Hebrew Scripture and heavily overlapping the same, as well as containing clear analogs to Greek myths, so I consider it more of a part of the Western Tradition, sort of Proto-Western. Definitely a valuable work but not exactly what I'm trying to inject here. An important part of any study of the region or the time period though.

I was actually referring to the reference lists of great works on here, not to what I'm looking for. Though I do have two middle-schoolers, so the topic is of interest, I was actually contrasting intermediate level (middle school) study with reading the great books themselves, which is my primary interest here.

The Wikipedia lists are helpful but they are quantitative not qualitative. Even a look at the articles for those works that have them doesn't always give much as the works often rate an article simply for us knowing anything about a work produced so early. A couple word of text from the Hittite Old Kingdom rates an article. But yes, these are useful in absence of qualitative lists.

Thanks, actually, this goes beyond just the one child who I mention in my other post. Though he inspired me to start thinking about this, I do realize that he may not be able to go very far into the ancients at all, let alone a broad worldview. I agree about shared history and cultural understanding being a huge hurdle but I also think this is as much a challenge with most ancient writing. While it may be easier to relate to Greeks due to their incredible influence on Western civilization, it's not that easy to relate to Biblical stories beyond the religious influences on our culture. The Hebrews spoke a non-Indo-European language and were non-dualistic (or at least their dualism is entirely different from Greek dualism and has had relatively little influence on Western thought on the whole, permeating only here and there). Outside of the cultural influence of the stories via religion, I'm able to relate as well to the Vedas as to Hebrew Scripture (and linguistically much more so. The religious influences on Western culture aren't small but they really aren't as big as many think for those who don't happen to be Jewish or Christian (and not as much Christian influence as many of us would like to think). I remain bothered by a culturally monochromatic Western view. I think a large part of the challenge of looking at non-Western works later in life is that there is no familiarity with them built early on. Additionally, In a world in which one may be working in NY today and New Delhi tomorrow, or even just communicating with Beijing, I believe we are handicapped if we have no knowledge of their great works. When I've lived in Korea several decades ago, young (early university-age) people were well aware of the Western Classics and could quote from many of them far better than I. In some cases it was only my knowledge of some of the Buddhist and Taoist works (and my unrestricted access to books on modern social theories - this was pre-web and many such works were banned in the ROK), that gave me any credibility at all. I think that discovering other, radically different, cultures exist is one of the most valuable roles of study. I appreciate all the insight, and resources, I'm receiving here.

I guess I wasn't very clear, was I? By direct study, I simply meant studying the works themselves and not works about the works, summaries, etc. but actually studying the non-Western Great Books themselves. I haven't found this to be true and there aren't any specific works, that's not what I meant, I want to know what works are out there. I've found world literature books to be overly selective in general. Initially, I'm looking for a good outline of the great works that aren't included in traditional classical study. Or even just a list. I'm looking to start from a list of the Great books that includes eastern works or that is exclusively non-western so that I can merge the two. An ordered list like the list of Western classics in WTM would be a good place to start. Sure, I can go thru country by country or region by region, hunting for apparent great works and following down links ad infinitum, but that's pretty inefficient. My personal knowledge of the great works, particularly from the Ancient period, outside the West is pretty much limited to religious works, primarily Hindu, Buddhist, and Taoist works. My knowledge of secular works is scant. I'm not looking for a concentration in any one area but to be able to sprinkle some Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Mongol, Persian, African, etc, together with some pre-Roman Europe, Sub-Saharan, and American legends, in amongst the Western classics so the student doesn't get a lopsided view of the world. That's exactly my concern. I am not familiar with some of "that stuff", if I've even ever heard of it. And I consider myself fairly well educated and worldly. I read the Gita and the Tao Te Ching in high school on my own but I had little idea what else was out there, particularly outside the canon they were part of. Google is great but it's hit and miss and if I miss, I don't know what I'm missing. It may be that I simply need to build such a list and search for guides to the works myself but that alone suggests the lopsided nature of most classical study. I'll take a look at some of the references that Lori D. suggests and see where that takes me.

Does anyone have any resources for studying the great works that include non-western works? I'm thinking mainly of Chinese and Vedic works, but also African and other Asian and I would include early Slavic, Gaelic, and Nordic works as not being part of the so-called Western Tradition. I notice that the intermediate level reading lists here and in WTM the book, include overviews but what about direct study. Having an almost entirely Western focused classical study seems horribly parochial in the 21st Century.

We've recently withdrawn our 17 yo from public school just before the beginning of his 12th year. While he was homeschooled in 1st and 2nd grades and attended German school in 3rd thru 5th grades (including a year of Gymnasium), he has been in a Maryland public school ever since and has not thrived there, though he has done OK academically he hated it and had to be forced to apply himself to it in order to avoid failing for lack of interest. In attempting to salvage what we can of his education and hope to try to rebuild a little of his love (or at least tolerance) for learning, we're starting more or less fresh in the final year and want to give him a taste of a classical education. His high school education has largely ignored the ancients and he seems to enjoy them, so we are thinking of having him work on some of the ancients in the first half of the year, though we're not sure diving straight into Aristotle is going to be enjoyable at all for him. We're thinking maybe some of the intermediate material would be more likely to bring success (as well as provide the possibility of introducing non-western classics). We're concerned about the lack of any formal background in grammar and logic and struggling to come up with a plan for writing because of this. We're trying him on Analytical Grammar and Morrow & Weston simultaneously in an attempt to hybridize the elements of classical study. Looked at Stewart English Program and liked it but it appears to be out of print, with a couple of student books republished, unsure if there is any difference other than the full-color animal on the front or if they can be used with the old teacher books. Has anyone else tried to start homeschooling by the classical method in the 12th year (or even in the 11th)? What suggestions do you have?