Thanks for posting that Katy. I am not going to read that tonight. I read a synopsis of the written descriptions read aloud in court of some of the images and videos. I thought I was prepared to mind over matter it. I was not, and ended up feeling dizzy and nauseous. I really think that the tax payers need to pay for professional counseling for this jury after the trial. I will be back tomorrow. I just need to not read any more court stuff tonight.

Yes, he would be wise not to use his experience as his award winning essay for the big scholarship!

And even with civil cases. Sometimes a person can be found not guilty of murder in criminal court and still go down for wrongful death in a civil court because the rules and precedents are different. So there is that too, and it influences how the public feels about the person. I would not expect a bunch of 17 and 18 year old college freshmen to be particularly well versed in all of these distinctions.

Maddening! Thank everyone you know and they know for the toaster??? 😜

I can only imagine how disconcerting it must be for many at the college to be faced with attending school with him.

Well, as near as I can tell, he said in deposition he did not have the password, did not know a password. Then in court under defense cross, he said it suddenly seemed to be familiar to him. The prosecution went a little off because well, that isn't good if the witness lied under oath when questioned, and pressed him. Wellar admitted that when the defense asked him in deposition/prep/briefing not sure which, he said he did not know it, and then they SHOWED him the password so now it is vaguely familiar. Defense said basically, we told him to tell the truth, and Prosecution went after him again to probably make him confirm the defense meddled with his "memory" by showing evidence which should not have been shown or something, and the judge was like "move on". I think! It is an odd exchange, and I am not an attorney nor do I play one on t.v. It should be noted that even if Wellar did know the password and lied about it, he still couldn't be the one to do the download because his employment with the auto dealership ended a month sooner, and they were not able to produce payroll proof of any employees working at the dealership that week. I find that a little suspicious. Now, I suppose the defense could say Wellar had keys and could have sneaked back a month latter, and let himself in, and did the downloading because he had the partition password. Maybe they will allege that during the defense part of the trial. It seems odd that Wellar would be willing to lie in such a way that throws his own butt under the bus. But, again, we need a lawyer to really tell us what it means. It is all confusing.

It appears that the prosecution accused the defense of convincing a witness to lie in both deposition as well as on the stand. Here is a link to some, not all of the testimony. A synopsis. https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-trial-prosecution-gets-heated-questioning-relative-colleague/ I chuckle at the judge saying you cane keep beating that horse. So I guess they have moved on, but there was apparently yelling. I also have to wonder if Weller can face charges for lying in the deposition. He seemed to then throw the defense team under the bus with a kind "yup, they made me do it" thing. Very hard to know though. I wish we had a lawyer here to parse it out.

Nobody knows what side they are on. Derrick is dressed in his law school finest today and has a legal pad in leather binder for taking notes. That is good. Despite the fact that this is a trial for his brother in law, it is a prime opportunity to learn about all the trial etiquette, procedures, etc. Seeing live cases is about the only way to learn it from what I have been told. He can't share that stuff with Jill though until after she testifies or is told she will no longer be on the witness list. There are five seats in the family section, and everything else is first come, first serve. So I don't take any clues from whom is sitting where. If you want to sit up front so you can hear well and you are family, you sit in that designated section if you can. Witnesses are only required to speak loud enough to be heard by the jury, the judge, and the attorneys. That is it. They do not have to project their voices. So being in the back or even in the middle means potentially not hearing what is going on.

Okay, well. Hm. I guess since every other reporting group is going to say it, and the interview in 2015 said it, and the police report was not properly redacted and then released, I guess I will say it. Yes is assumed to be the other sister victim because she was the only girl of the right age given in the police report. She is married to Austin Forsyth. Jill/Derrick Jinger/Jeremy Justin/Claire John David/Annie Joseph/Kendra Josiah/Lauren

Can someone please tell Justin that when your brother is on trial for CSAM and his crimes against your sisters is going to be outed in sickening detail to the court, you don't exit the courthouse like this!!!! 😠 It is the Sun. Par for the course for their "journalism", but now I need brain bleach.

I am so sad for her. When they finally bring Bobbye to the stand, that is not going to be easy testimony to hear. Gothard husbands tend to be pathetic husbands due to the brainwashing about women, but I really hope Austin steps up. It doesn't seem like his family was quite so heavy into the worst aspects of it.

Be aware of scams. Sigh. So tired of slimeballs and sleaze. https://www.wnem.com/news/nessel-warns-of-fundraising-scams-following-oxford-high-school-shooting/article_df37612e-5395-11ec-9e81-1fa12a03d776.html?block_id=994426

That is unfortunate. Rough enough to be a juror on a case like this, but then to have a medical emergency and all those people and reporters around??? I feel very sad for that person.

Congratulations! Get a mudroom!!! 😀

The audio clips played in court yesterday were pretty damaging and maybe opened the door. Not sure. I think this is a classic case of narcissism, malignant narcissism. He is so smug, so sure he is untouchable, that he couldn't keep is yap shut on self a incrimination. I think his own voluntary statement may have opened the door. Also, I am linking this for some quotes of yesterday's testimony. I don't normally use buzzfeed. But they appear to be using direct quotes of witnesses and lawyers in the trial. I think they would be in trouble if they were making it up. However, if any of you think it is unreliable, I am happy to delete the link. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolefallert/josh-duggar-child-sexual-abuse-trial

My neighbor has one that says something to the effect that his super jock kid is beating the "sh*t" out of your honor roll kid. Sigh. We have numerous flags in this area that say "F*ck Governor Whitmer". One family flew theirs last Christmas alongside their blow up Santa in the yard. I refuse to post pictures of them. It is so gross and vile. Plus, I just don't see the point of putting those photos out there for social media consumption. It gets really old being surrounded by barbarians.

I am so very sorry! This is just so discouraging. Hugs!

Agreed. Local UPS drivers say they love their jobs. They get on as seasonal part time at first but with good pay, and it is usually not a long wait to be full time with benefits. The medical insurance is pretty good. We have not heard such things of FedEx. Of course UPS is more expensive because they pay better and have good benefits. However, I would prefer to pay more for shipping in order to support a better company, and I wish that more retailers used UPS than FedEx because of this. Supporting better companies is how things change for the better for the labor force. It is hard to convince a lot to folks of that though! I figure whomever it was in Alabama had probably just reached the breaking point, flipped out, couldn't take it anymore, tossed the rest of his or her load, and went home. Not right. But under some circumstances, not a shocker sand maybe just a little.bit relatable.

Yes. The two charges cover two different sets of downloads. One download was a big dump of images. The other was the twice downloaded video. Written descriptions of the video of the youngest children and images of younger children have been provided by the prosecution. These things are beyond horrific. Jurors have been told about the other stuff by Kalmer and Faulkner. They are trying to spare the worst images from being handed to the jury due to trauma, and due to the fact that ultimately the jury is being forced to view CSAM. Think about that. You a law abiding, decent human who finds this gross and vile, as a juror is forced to look at it. Forget crime scene videos, this is some of the worst stuff a juror can ever be forced to see. So they picked some of the images from the dump, and some clips from the video in order to prove to the jury that CSAM was downloaded, it is in fact CSAM and not legal, adult stuff. But, they do not have to go further than that because the charge is the same whether or not the image is of a 7 year old or a baby. There is no age gradation, the charge gets worse, the sentence guideline gets worse type thing. That said, they could make them view more if they wanted to do so. Jurors were provided individual screens, nothing was shown to the gallery. This makes sense to me. Not only do the victims of these crimes deserve privacy and are minors, this prevents making CSAM consumers of every person in that courtroom.

I may not post much today. This one is wearing on me. AG Nessel made a statement. That's nice. I like her. I like that she has taken on some really nasty weasels, and stood strong. But, at the end of the days this is Michigan and the powers that be in the legislature really don't give a frick about kids, and many of them are very okay with a lot of kids dying so long as no one tells them they have to be responsible for the gun they purchased. Nothing is going to happen. Wring handed clutch pearls, offer thoughts and prayers, and then move on like it never happened. Same old same old. Numerous districts in Wayne County are closed today for threats. This usually happens. Copcat threats some of which are potentially credible, some of which are "cool we can get out of school" immaturity spawned in young people who are entirely desensitized to violence. In Saginaw, one high school is open with police presence because law enforcement doesn't think the threat is credible, but of course cannot be sure. It is an unexcused absence if a parent chooses to keep their child home or at least that is what has been reported on social media. I have not seen an official statement on that from school administrators. I cannot imagine being parents and students faced with this. Maybe this is why superintendents get a quarter million a year in salary. Maybe it takes that level of pay to get someone to be willing to sit in the hot seat for these kinds of calls. https://www.abc12.com/news/in-the-wake-of-tuesdays-deadly-school-shooting-at-oxford-high-school-michigans-attorney-general/article_689761d0-5300-11ec-aa4e-6376a38948ee.html The entirety of all school buildings in my county are closed tomorrow due to copycat threats. The state police made a statement that there are so many threats, they can't investigate all of them in time to figure out what might be credible or not. Between the devastating covid in this state and now this, I think the state should just go to online school until after Christmas break. I don't imagine that the kids I know locally feel very safe now, and who can learn when one is constantly evaluating your personal escape plan!

No idea. So I am going to see if any of the local tv/radio stations in NWA have someone reporting fro! the courthouse. I don't think the reports would be detailed, but general short summaries are helpful.

J, on the sub reddit who is attending the trial, has deleted the account. No one knows why. However, the mods are tracking it down. I wonder about hacking. I have suspended more than one email account over the years for spam and someone hacking in and then sending spam "as me". It happens a lot, and all these online forums and discussion groups are email based for opening an account. But, I am not a tech savvy person so who knows! Just speculation. So there will not be updates from this trial attendee. The prosecution indicated that they have about 3.5 days worth of evidence to present. I have no idea if that estimate includes time for cross examination. So this part of the trial could go through today, tomorrow, and Monday or maybe even longer before getting to the defense.

It doesn't open up an avenue of appeal. This is a federal case not state. Federal statute 414 allows for this. All the prosecution has to show is a preponderance of the evidence that the past allegations were true to be allowed. They have Jbob and Michelle's Primetime Megan Kelly interview admissions, Josh written admission, a police report admission, the cop in jail for 54 years admission, the girls interviews, the letter sent to Oprah which started the dumpster fire, and Bobbye Golf's testimony plus Jill agreed to testify which means there is pre-trial deposition from a victim. They have plenty of evidence. Judge Brooks is very experienced. Rule 414 has been invoked in other cases many times before. We just never hear about it because those cases are not minor celebrities and celebrities. Appeal overturns of federal convictions for these crimes is exceedingly rare. Federal judges are way more experienced and seasoned than most state judges so less likely to make a mistake, and federal prosecutors are the rock stars of the legal world. Their conviction rates are huge, and on CSAM are usually as close to a slam dunk as you can get.

I don't know who Katie Joy is as a person, but she was kicked off Reddit for some nor good stuff one of which was plagiarism and taking credit for other people's research and posts. She is doing that now. She doesn't have a secret source. The info about Michelle and JB not wanting to hear what happened is in court documents and comes from the testimony of Bobbye Holt who was put on the stand at the pre-trial hearing. She testified that she and her husband Jim tried to confront them about what Josh confessed to because it was worse than they had been told when they were asked to reinstate the courtship with their daughter, and took place over a longer period of time and the parental response was that they were not interested in hearing it. Bobbye had a very hard time keeping her composure on the stand. Duggar were told by Jim and Bobby Holt that they had to turn Josh in to authorities. They waited nine months and then refused to produce the children for interviews and the state of Arkansas represented by local CPS and family court did nothing. They took Josh to confess to a pedophile pervert already facing trial for CSAM who was a police officer no less who attended their church and had confessed his crimes to the church already in order to get his forgive and forget, it's all good, we all make mistakes sometimes, pardon from leadership. Josh received a "talking to" from this person. A year later or so (can't remember the exact amount of gap) the slime bag was sentenced to 54 years in prison. 54 years. That's how bad his crimes were. My guess is he simply took Josh aside and told him where he could find this stuff and how to try to hide it better than he did! Be careful following Katie Joy. She has gotten into a lot of trouble with the reddit mods. The testimony was embedded in the link I posted from Nov. 29 updates if you want to read it from the horse's mouth. One of the law students on the sub reddit is attending the trial and reporting from the courthouse on the breaks as well as screenshots of testimony and judges statements and notes as they become available. Federal trial court reporters seem to be quite fast at getting this stuff out. JB and Michelle are evil people. Jim Holt himself is no better. He wasn't the one that called the police. It should also be noted that Bobbye testified that the two Jim's fell asleep during the discussion, right in front of her and Josh. So such for "male leadership"! 🙄 Caleb Williams, a young man that at one time JB tried to fix up with Jana for a courtship and Jana thank goodness rebelled, is now a registered sex offender convicted of rape and trying to get custody of the child that came from that rape. Jbob employed a registered sex offender at one of his businesses, and there are links to more sex offenders if you go read through the entirety of the prosecutions witness list. It is, in my mind, no coincidence that JB is in a sex cult, promotes a sex cult, has a deviant son he refused to protect his daughter's from, and is friends with sex offenders as well as has employed them. I believe JB himself whether he has acted on it or not has a major problem with sex addiction of some kind or even worse. I also suspect Keller of the same because he was made aware by the Holts that Josh was the " Sin in the camp" that caused Jim Holt to lose his election (No Jim People didn't like you and your messed up cult.). He was also told about the molestations, and Keller still married off Anna to him. Now Anna bears some blame. She said the vows, she signed the marriage license. She could have refused. But, let's not forget she has been raised in this evil cult from birth and trained to believe she has no agency because her reproductive organs don't dangle, and that god will smite her down with a mighty sword if she goes against her headship, daddkins. Keller has to be a deviant as well. At least Holt isn't. Prior to Anna when approached by JB and Josh approached Holt about restarting the courtship with their eldest daughter, Holt was like NOPE not going to happen. A few years later one of the younger boys tried to court a Holt daughter and that never got off the ground either. This is the ONLY credit I give Holt. He is otherwise your basic IBLP vermin. Birds of a feather......

They didn't. They made the statement that he was not smart enough because he was home schooled and only had a GED. That said they hosed themselves. Josh admitted, after being read his rights at the time and waving having an attorney present because he was not in custody/arrested, on a recording no less, to the lead investigators that he knew how to use TOR, BIT-Tor, etc. I mean, these lawyers are defending Daddy Duck here. In pretrial filings, Josh took the 5th amendment. So he is not taking the stand. Yup, no joke. This would be like Yosemite Sam trying to defend Wile E Coyote on Assault with the intent to Eat Roadrunner charges. it isn't going to go well, and Wile E. is guilty as sin and too smug not to keep his trap shut.