Hi everyone, I took Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday off the boards for a mental health break. After supper Friday night, we attended a local candlelight vigil for the Oxford shooting victims as well as just a show of solidarity for the student body/staff/faculty who has suffered so much trauma. It was about 100 people, quiet and peaceful, nothing news worthy. But I felt like afterward, I needed some down time. I also feel like today, it is best for me to wait until there are end of the day reports, summarize, and do one thread. Mentally, I need to be doing other things at the moment, and yet I have a strong, vested interest in seeing ATI/IBLP/Duggars brought down because of the wicked danger of this cult. I want to see Josh Duggar and JB/Chelle suffer the consequences. However, thinking about it all day isn't doing me any favors, and I am only lightly scarred from a short time in my teens of Gothard's crap. It is inconceivable the pain of others who had their entire childhood inside the cult. I am making some cookies, doing laundry -lots of laundry - running to the dry cleaners with a suit that suddenly needs to be used next week which was NOT on our horizons and had fallen off the hanger in Dh's closet unbeknownst to me and now looks like a rag. 😐 I won't be back on the boards until I do the update, and I will put it here. I am sorry if a lot of you have a reacted to or quoted or whatever and were waiting for a response. I have decided for my own health, I am not going to wade through what looks like a long list of notificiations. I am very sorry about that. I have a nerve inducing drive Friday in horrible weather conditions to get ds from the dorms which will be closing for Christmas break. He has nowhere to stay so I have to do it. Dh has super important meetings that day and can't make the run. It will make me very anxious having never gotten 100% over my accident PTSD so I just cannot allow myself to get too amped up prior to the drive. Again, I am REALLY sorry about not going through notifications. The update will just be a post and thread bump. No editing this OP. Faith

I can't post them. The observation is embedded in disturbing comments that I won't post here. I can't! I just can't have my friends here go read that stuff. So if you want to disregard the OP, I am not offended.

On the run. Nice. Cowards. All that bravado, refused to take their son with them after the meeting and look what happened? So now leave the kids high and dry to save their own skin. Sigh.

Okay, on Monday I have some errands I need to run for my mother in law. I will be following the trial, but to keep things easy, I am going to just do one end of day trial update. From there we will have to see because the prosecution still has witnesses. But the defense only has four. I have no idea if they can wrap that up into one day, or if it will go into Tuesday. The judge had told the jury he expected 5-6 days of trial and today is the 3rd day since opening statements, but the 4th day considering the pre-trial hearing. Maybe Tuesday they will be done?

I can try. But it gets really hard to keep editing, and they get longer and longer. People ping me and ask where the updates are because they can't immediately find them. I am in a bit of a bind. Maybe next week I will only do one super long one at the end of the day and that is it.

Multiple court room reporters have said she is breaking down. I am glad Derrick is with her. The computer forensic expert has confirmed, and boy it looks like this is going to be impossible for the defense to poke holes in, that Josh was the only person at the car dealership during the downloads of the worst of the content. Yesterday, due to Anna's cell phone number being part of the evidence because he texted her throughout the downloads, her cell phone number was on display in court, and apparently, she might not have been warned this would happen. She is weeping for all those eyes to see. And gets because of her cult training as the horror of what he has done sinks in, she will be required by her headship the Jim bob to hold that sociopath's hand as she leaves the courthouse today, and he can withhold food and shelter from her if she doesn't do it. I hope Derrick and Jill are willing to take her and the M's in. I hope CPS gets involved and says she has to leave or risk losing the kids. I hope. I dare to hope knowing that this cult is so adept at beating women into the ground, there is not much of a chance she will.

There have been many calls for action. Our "my gun is an extension of my favorite reported drive toy" NRA worshipping legislature is not a fan of holding anyone, particularly another white man, accountable for much of anything. So.....don't hold your breath. This is just another wring hands, offer prayers and walk away event for them.

😯😂😂😂

I will not open that link. I do not want to see it. But I think I can automatically side on the "this is far too many snakes" side of the argument! 😱

Here is what landed him in the principal's office with his parents. Of this doesn't trigger a search of person, backpack, locker, and a psyche hold I do not know what will. https://www.wnem.com/news/prosecutor-michigan-school-shooting-suspect-wrote-help-me/article_ab26bd08-5462-11ec-9500-1bc5841e177c.html?block_id=994426

Multiple sources in the court room YouTube blogger, The Sun, local t.v. news, etc. that more physical evidence was presented before the lunch break. Whatever was shown was very upsetting to the jury, and some jurors cried. The prosecution, either deliberately or accidentally who knows, bumped their screen so that Anna could see it for a few seconds. Then lunch break. I don't know how the jurors are going to eat. They need to because they must keep their strength up. But seriously, I would be unable to do so. I hope the bailiff, usually charged with taking care of the jurors, is keeping an eye on this. Some folks may need some juice this afternoon and a mental health break this afternoon.

The mother needs to go away for life! How depraved is she??? So both parents, in supermax, no visitors for life. This is how I vote. This probably why I should never serve on criminal juries.

James Fortrell, one of the computer experts, testified this morning that he did investigate the possibility of remote triggered download. He found no evidence of it and such an explanation did not fit the pattern of download/useage. I assume that means that it is quite doubtful this could have occurred, and it had to be done in person. That said, I am not a technological wizard nor do I play one in real life. I am more of the "Daisy Mae Clampett" of the computer world. So take this under advisement. At any rate, this is something the defense brought up yesterday when someone else, a.different tech person, was on the stand. So apparently the prosecution was able to provide testimony against the idea.

Yup. You can review it on the wedding episode. That is how depraved JB and Josh are.

11:21 EST. It has been confirmed by local news as well as People and the Sun (no fan of either of them for sure because they are tabloid rags but in this case since local actual news stations also confirmed, I will accept it), that Anna was in the room yesterday when the descriptions were read aloud. So she did not see images, however, she heard the graphic detaiks I read yesterday that reduced me to tears and kept me awake all night. It was also reported by a YouTube blogger person in the room that the prosecution briefly bumped their computer screen (because the lawyers for both sides have to see what the jury is seeing), and it had a VERY bad image that faced Derrick and Anna for several seconds. Obviously no one knows if she saw it. She could have been looking in another direction. The blogger person was sickened by it. But this has not been confirmed by another source. I would guess that regular reporters will not confirm even if they saw it. The news agencies locally have agreed to be super duper sensitive with the general public about the materials, and to never ever say or print the titles of the videos. I am grateful they are being responsible!

He did it at her wedding. Jbob insisted that Josh give a speech/toast though no alcohol involved. He called her out for tattletaling on him at her own wedding, and JB was complicit. I sometimes wish judges had the right to do some public penance stuff before peeps began their sentence. You know, like "Joshua Duggar you are hereby ordered to be tied to a tree in the town square with a billboard next to your head letting the community know what kind of piece of trash you are and baskets of tomatoes will be provided for your neighbors and sisters to pummel you with after which you will be remanded to custody to begin your sentence of mining granite with a teaspoon on expired m.r.e. rations with the candy removed at the South Pole." One can dream. Yes, the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the constitution is utterly lost on me at times like this.

Accurate!!!

And really, can we all just agree that it is depressing to say "good" update about something so freaking awful? At any rate, the other seven victims are improving! I can only imagine how relieved their families are. The bad. Whatever went down at the meeting between the school principal, the parents, and the shooter that morning, the principal saw no need for "discipline". Hmmm...okay. Hmmmm maybe " discipline" is not the right word. But intervention? Can we use that word? This kid was on social media threatening to shoot up the school, and you were concerned enough to call the parents in and have a meeting, and you didn't say, "Please take your son home and call your doctor for a referral to a mental health professional. We think it is in his best interests as well as ours that he not be in school for now." His backpack was not searched nor his locker. Law enforcement was not called to search him. But making threats to kill people on school grounds IS a crime. It is a crime in progress. Most of them are going to be kids blowing off steam and running their immature mouths off. However, it is still a crime, and the least we can do as a society is jump on that with both feet, and make these kids go to counseling, do some community service, and force the parents to take action or lose the kid for a while. We can't just keep turning our backs on this! The gun was unsecured according to the sheriff. It was described as easily accessible. I think life in prison without the possibility of parole for the dad who was the legal owner, and 25 years foe the mom. I think the trial takes place at night on Primetime so all the other stupid, irresponsible, gun obsessed parents get the message to lock those things up with trigger locks, and combination gun safes, and ammo elsewhere also under combination OR go to jail, do not pass go, do nor collect $200.

Bingo!

I am sorry! It seems like stock is just such a hit and miss thing these days. Ugh!

Ottakee, I am convinced that there is a sociopathy/narcissism thing in these kinds of abusers that makes them so self-assured, so conceited, they honestly cannot imagine that their special snowflake behinds would never be convicted. I am so sorry you have had to endure this! I am just in awe of how amazing you have done for yourself and your children!!!

Jill was the one that told. Josh has referred to her in the past as "the snitch".

The youngest victim, again never identified by name in the redacted report, was 8 when the investigation took place and was able to describe in decent detail for an eight year old who was not taught proper language for communicating about something like this. She remembered. However, I doubt that she was ever read the medical and legal definitions of what happened to her which is pretty horrible. So this all may be very frightening and re-traumatizing to that person, and a spouse hearing it for the first time put into those terms is probably having what can only be described as potentially the worst day of his life.

So I know on day 3 a lot of people were very conflicted about what the jury would or would not see, what Anna would see or what they wanted her to see. I am going to go over the potential issues noe without giving ANY details. Long statements coming up. First of all, I did not sleep last night. As an IBLP/Gothard/Cult survivor, I have had a very strong vested interest in seeing this person brought to justice and JB and company exposed for exactly who they are. Some of you will recall many years ago when I tried to explain that this was a sex cult for the express purpose of grooming victims for all kinds of abuse, but very much for men to be able to dominate and get their kinks off under the veneer of christianity, a lot of people were pretty certain I was a judgemental shrew. And here we are. I did not suffer an nth of what the Duggar kids, the Bates, kids, the Keller kids, etc. have and yet that limited cult abuse for only a year and a few months of my life effectively ruined my relationship with my father for the remainder of his life, and took professional therapy in college for me to overcome so I could have a healthy relationship with my then so one-to-one husband. To say that all of these kids in these families are screwed up, not just the Duggar girls who were molested, is to make a profound understatement. My sister 2-3 years old at the time has had life along issues more severe than mine because of it and the fact that unfortunately for a very long time after my parents turned their backs on the cult, it still affected their parenting. Therefore, in the hopes that people will see it for what it is, in the hopes that this will spark new interest in exposing it, in the hopes that others will have the courage to do what Jill and Jinger have done and break free of it, in the hopes that maybe some of the survivors will ban together and bankrupt the Duggars, the Gothard empire, I follow the trial and report on it for whomever is willing to listen and see the truth. As to the nature of the materials and who should see them. You are right that it is mind boggling that a law abiding citizen of the general public could be compelled by law to serve on such a jury, and see and hear such heinous things. I have those thoughts too. But, what is the alternative? Do we give up the jury system? Do we serf the jurisdiction for volunteers? What does that say about the people who might volunteer? Are they good people who want to see justice done? Or are they monsters really excited to see the evidence? Would they be supporters of the cult who would show up for jury just to make sure scum bags get off? Do we go with professional juries? Vetted, background checked, character witnesses verified on their behalf, bond them, and pay them well? Would we want these decisions in the hands of people paid to make them? Do we just leave it up to judges to single handedly try cases and then hand down the sentences? Joshua Duggar brought it to this point because he is such a malignant sociopath and narcissist that he refused to take a very generous plea deal. 10 years, small percentage of the maximum fines. 10 years isn't enough in my mind. But federal prisons are not resorts, psychological help is provided, he would start out in solitary and on suicide watch which is no picnic, and he is off the streets and away from the CSAM. His youngest child would be ten when he got out, and his first three kids, adults or nearly adults lowering the risk to them. Not ideal, but it saved a jury seeing this sh*t and the cost of trying him. Nope! Just would not do it. So here we are. From my perspective, the best that could possibly be done to balance the needs of justice - present the evidence and verify that it is what it is and - it is very, very, very bad- with that of the potential trauma to jurists was accomplished. The worst of the materials was only provided in legal/medical descriptions. The worst of the video was not shown. The images they were required to look at were limited, and video clips kept brief. I of course not on the jury, did not see images or video clips, and am thankful. I have read the descriptions as they are a part of the court documents and public information if you want to go dig, and trust me, you do not. They made me physically ill, heart sick, and caused insomnia. I am a little better today. I am not full functioning. My darling husband brought ice cream and chocolate home last night, told me it was for supper, and made me a lemon drop martini. We talked, I curled up in a ball in his lap, and cried until I soaked the front of his shirt. And the thing is, I am normally very good at compartmentalizing, at shoving emotion down and being Mr. Spock, the emotionless Vulcan when needed. And it broke me. But, maybe the jury did better. Maybe my experiences with IBLP, my intense hatred of JB, Michelle, Josh, Gothard, Bates, and ilk, TLC for thinking it was a hoot to make celebrities of abusers, made it worse than it had to be. I don't know, and have no emotional space for evaluating that. I do believe we has taxpaying citizens owe this jury and any others like them, professional counseling and a luxury vacation afterward to decompress, even the replacement of their income for that vacation so they can be off work. It is the least we can do. It concerns me that the worst cases for juries to hear have no formal and paid for mental health access foe the jurists, the court reporters, the bailiffs the judges, nor the lawyers! What I do know is that in our system, the evidence has to be presented. We can't have guilty verdicts without it. People would be railroaded by over zealous D.As if we didn't. So somebody has to see it. The prosecution team, with this in mind, did the best they could to present the evidence of his heinous crimes with the least amount of horror for the jury. The gallery could not see the screens, and Anna should NOT have seen those images in that environment. You can hate on her all you want, but hell no. Just hell no. And so do believe the children in these images have the human right to as few people viewing them as is possible while still making the case. Our justice system is pretty damn screwed up at times,.but this one they for right! The only thing I will say concerning the images TRIGGER WARNING ALERT: These were photo image dumps, the first had 65 and the second around 145 ish (memory failing me at the moment) plus the two videos. The age range of victims was 12 all the way down to 3 months. The investigators have Josh on recording admitting to knowing how to do the computer stuff that the defense said he was too dumb and uneducated to do. So that wasn't much of a defense. Today, more forensic computer evidence is being presented, more testimony for the prosecution. They are nor likely to bring the molestations in yet, but much depends on how long cross examinations will take. I expect Derrick to be there if there is any chance Jill will be called today. Five chairs in the family section only, the courtroom is small, and you are only guaranteed to hear if you sit up front. Or course he is going to sit there. I would not speculate that being in support of Josh or not. Austin seems to get to the courthouse much later the two times he has come. So being the back is normal. The family section is reserved and reporters are NOT supposed to approach. Everyone else is fair game. So if I arrived and couldn't sit in the family section but was indeed family whom someone might true to corner and question, I would for sure be in that back row so I can escape at every break. Updates will not be in this very long OP. I am going to get another cup of coffee, and be thankful for my absolutely precious husband.

I like to do mini-quesadillas. Instapot chicken breast with enchilada sauce, shred, layer with queso, shredded cheese in between to flower tortillas, brown on each side (it does take a little work to flip so I tend to brown each tortilla, then fill, and then out in the of covered in order to get melty), and cut into 8ths.