Ok, I'll try to answer. 1. I don't worry about being "an incubator for covid variants" because I've studied biology. I know that all viruses mutate as the host population develops immunity. Variants usually get more contagious and less deadly. 2. I watch the numbers every day. My county counts any hospitalized patient who tests positive as a covid patient (so someone going in to have a baby who tests positive is included in the numbers, not just those hospitalized for covid) and today there are two people hospitalized, none in intensive care. If I saw that changing drastically and I thought I could help by getting vaccinated, I'd do it. 3. Yes, I consider community factors. My boys got the rubella shot to protect others, for example. In this case the shot is new and we don't even know how effective it is long term, against variants, etc. I think that lockdowns, closed schools, etc. were the result of poor government policies. They have just drawn out the pandemic. You can compare the numbers between states and see this. There you go. You asked, so I answered. I'm not trying to convince you, just tell you that I have thought about these things and come to a different conclusion than you have.

Who threw out an accusation? He accused me of lying. I asked him to show me where I'm wrong. And I'm not new. I've been here many years but lost my account in one of the changes and have mostly lurked since then. Really, if you all want to understand why people are hesitant to get the vaccine, just look at this discussion of the WHO recommendations. I said they don't recommend the vaccine for people under 18 and I was accused of believing/spreading misinformation and lying. I showed from their website that this was accurate. They recommend the vaccine for people 18 and up and say they need more information before making a recommendation for younger kids. I never said they say kids under 18 shouldn't get it. The point is, any discussion of risks of the vaccine is shut down as misinformation. There is no way I'd get a vaccine knowing that. I want to give informed consent and that means openly discussing the risks and benefits, not living in a bubble where any negatives are dismissed as right wing conspiracy theories. You're not going to convince anyone this way.

You left out the previous paragraph: "More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19. WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy." Yes, they say it's suitable, but they say we need more evidence in whether to recommend it. Are we sure the benefits are worth the risk in kids?

Then show me where the WHO recommends the vaccine for kids under 18, because all I said is that they don't. You all can quibble all day that not saying kids shouldn't get it is different than not saying kids should get it. All I said is that they recommend the vaccine for people over 18. Show me where they say anything different -- from the WHO website, not from a fact checker trying to spin it.

Oh my goodness. I don't rely on the WHO. I randomly picked that as an example of something I read in conservative media and then backed it up with a primary source that contradicted your "fact check."

If they are vaccinated, they are protected against serious illness. There always will be people who are medically fragile and we'll do what we can to protect them. I'm not convinced in this case that me getting a vaccine is helpful. I will stay home if sick, etc. Again, I know we disagrees. I just wanted to give a perspective from the other side.

Look, I don't want to argue with you. Quill was trying to understand the vaccination divide and I wanted to give the perspective of a person who has thoughtfully decided against vaccinating.

I watch the data. My dh has a PhD in math.

They say they recommend the vaccine for those 18 and up and they can't say whether or not children younger should be vaccinated until there is more information. Did you even read the fact check your linked??? The only thing it disputes is that the WHO changed its position. The WHO has never recommended the vaccine for kids.

I didn't say no one has gotten sick and died. Of course they have. But the chance of a young, healthy person getting seriously ill is very low.

From the WHO website (https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice) WHO SHOULD GET VACCINATED The COVID-19 vaccines are safe for most people 18 years and older Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers. More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.

I think we actually live very close to each other. Mid-Atlantic. I'm in a purplish area of a very blue state.

It really is a risk/benefit analysis. Not everyone is afraid of covid. I'm not vaccinated and have no plans to get the vaccine. I'm well educated (graduate degree), intellectually curious, and politically conservative. I read the New York Times every day and listen to NPR. I also read conservative news outlets and I feel they give me a me balanced perspective. For example, I did not read in the mainstream media that the WHO does not recommend the vaccine for kids under 18. Most of my friends are like me, college educated, intellectual, and conservative. Those at high risk from covid happily got the vaccine as soon as it was available. Those who are at lower risk mostly have not gotten it, and no one is vaccinating kids under 16 or so. What might make us different is that we have been living pretty much normally for over a year. We happily locked down in late March 2020 to keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. When it was clear that wasn't happening, we loosened up. We've been having people over for meals in large groups since at least early May of last year. We went on vacation last summer with family from all over the country. I taught in person all year without masks. While covid has not gone through my church, homeschool group, etc., I know MANY people who have had it. I don't know anyone young and healthy who had anything worse than a fever that hung on awhile. Most people had symptoms so mild they never would have thought of getting tested if someone in their family hadn't had an exposure. I know young, healthy people do sometimes get seriously ill, but that is rare. Driving to Walmart is more dangerous to me than covid. Yes, the Delta variant is more contagious, but I haven't seen a shred of evidence that it's more serious. I've made the risk calculation and I'd rather take my chances on covid than go get a shot that is likely to make me sick and that I'll probably need a booster for.

I'd try to talk her into the cooking/charity idea. If he started a charity delivering meals to people in need, he'd work on math skills, reach out to adults (networking), solve problems, etc. If he succeeds and sticks with it, this is an excellent hook for a college application. The selective schools love to see things like this... (and she can show off about him to her friends!)

Maybe? I'd have to be convinced that masks actually work. What I would do (and what I am doing now and have always done) is to stop from spreading germs in ways we know are effective -- keeping some distance, staying home when I'm sick, washing hands obsessively when I've been in public, not touching my face, and so on. I'm a germophobe anyway and I rarely get even a cold.

Did you read what I said? Cases where I live are at 5/100K. Asymptomatic spread, even among people in the same household, is low. Yes, some people are high risk and can't be vaccinated. Any contagious disease is dangerous to them. Do we all need to wear masks forever? I quoted that section because I felt like SKL was being picked on because she happens to disagree. I've been watching it happen with one poster after another until this is just an echo chamber. I'll wear them where they are actually required, like a healthcare setting or on a plane. If a store is requiring them, I'll take my business elsewhere. If they are just suggesting them for unvaccinated people, well, see above. And no one called me personally a liar; they just said that unvaccinated people who go unmasked are lying. I had been thinking about responding to that for a couple of days and held back and then let loose when I saw SKL getting picked on. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I think that once in awhile someone needs to speak up and say that there are lots of people out there who have thoughtfully considered these things and come to different conclusions. I understand that your dh is high risk and can't be vaccinated and I'm sure that's stressful, but really, look at the stats for your area and see how many new people are actually testing positive. It might be lower than you think.

Really??? I know my post count is low, but I've been here many years. I used to post regularly but my account was mixed up in one of the board changes and I've been lurking since then. I've watched as pretty much everyone who expresses an opinion contrary to the herd has been harassed into silence. On this very thread I've been called a "liar"because I have no plans of being vaccinated and "ditched" my mask as soon as my governor ditched the mandate. I'm not lying to anyone. What do you want me to do, wear a scarlet U on my chest? In my state, the mandate has been lifted for EVERYONE and it's SUGGESTED that those who aren't vaccinated continue wearing one. I've heard their suggestion and decided against wearing a mask because: -- I am not at all afraid of getting covid. I'm low risk and I know many people who have had it and had nothing worse than a mild cold. -- I am not at all convinced that masks do anything to stop the spread. -- I am not at all convinced there is a public health reason for me to wear a mask when I have no symptoms. Cases in my county are incredibly low, less than 5 new cases per day per 100,000 people. I don't want to argue about any of these points. They've been hashed and rehashed here and I know I'm not going to change any minds. You'll keep making your kids wear masks outside and consider anyone who disagrees to be a QAnon follower and a liar and then you'll complain that you have no friends. Well, you do you.