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Everything posted by LMD

  1. I do absolutely think that porn - especially modern porn, in terms of access to quantity and the violence - adds to the rape culture. Here's an article, a recent survey and report from my country about the impact of porn on young adolescents. Eta-link. Duh
  2. Great article, basically sums up this thread, in less than 12 pages!
  3. Yes, I do agree with that. I was thinking more along the train of thought that men are more at risk of physical violence from other men, and that led to remembering how seriously the violence against men was taken, and how quickly it was addressed here at the societal level.
  4. Absolutely, I do teach my sons the same safety measures. However, society is much more likely to support them if they are victimised than my daughter. Recently our country had a spate of random assaults, where men would randomly punch a stranger in the head, the victims would fall on the curb/sidewalk and many sustained serious brain injuries and died. We changed the laws (mandatory minimum 10 year sentence in my state) and the cultural language (king hit to coward punch) in light speed. No one asked why these male victims were out at night, in trouble spots (bars, clubs), drinking. No one insinuated that maybe it was complicated, maybe they provoked their attackers. No one asked if the victims had a history of drinking or fighting or risky behaviours. The perpetrators were bad guys - the end.
  5. Okay, I miscommunicated my use of the words actual victims. I didn't at all mean to imply that any victims aren't real victims. I would have thought my position on believing victims was clear in this thread, but I'm more than happy to be clear and careful with my language. I simply meant that theorizing about the hurt of hypothetical victims instead of hearing the words of victims right here seems like a distraction. I don't think victims have to be any kind of public at all unless they choose. It takes a lot of courage to share what people in this thread - ktgrok and Scarlett especially - have shared and I thank them. I have said more than once in this thread that teaching safe and respectful behaviours is great. I do/will teach them to all my kids. I have never and will never point out the mistakes of a victim as a teaching tool. Ftr- I do believe that you have no malicious intent to blame victims. I really do. I'm sure you are a nice person who would be a help to them in real life. I just know that there is actual damage done, both to victims and young people as they grow, by the hyper focus on drinking/promiscuity/immorality as a protection against sexual assault. In my opinion, it creates a false sense of security, a heightened sense of shame, a tendency to separate ourselves from victims and strengthens the hold on our culture that continues to allow these offenders to offend. *Edited to change 'girls' to 'young people ' because upon reflection I think that boys are damaged too.
  6. Exactly exactly exactly. Brock Turner was caught inside an unconscious woman, and was not so drunk himself that he couldn't realize he should run. But still there is an army of people saying all the exact same things about this case that people in this thread say 'not about this case obviously...' Sadie linked to all of the letters of support which the judge took into account when sentencing.
  7. So what do we do then, Murphy? At least we could give the ones we can prove decent sentences for a start!
  8. Wow. Really. I would think that people might be more worried about the actual victims in this very thread who have told you in their own words that it is offensive and incorrect to harp on about the imperfect actions of victims...
  9. Have you seen sorry watch's take on the Father's letter?
  10. We'd have to believe that they 'count' as rape first. Then we'd have to believe that the perpetrator wasn't just confused/tricked/carried away... I need more than a hand to count the number of sexual assault attackers, that I personally know about, who walked free.
  11. Haha! I was done with this thread (after my long response to JodiSue was eaten) but you pull me back in...
  12. The vileness is not internet specific, the same rhetoric comes up in every single conversation. Then provide counter statistics. You want to discuss 'different circumstances' but there is less than a handful of those cases- and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe any of the falsely accused were convicted? Prove to me that there is an actual trend of women changing their minds after casual hookups and having the men arrested. I do not believe it. Why is this a big fear? I have answered the practicality of my assertions, more than once. So have others. We are trying to call this out because the accepted statistics - that you are dubious of - just do not agree with you. It is false, it is damaging, it provides little to no actual protection, it does not solve the issue and does not help the hurt. I find your accusation that I'm using statistics to make an emotional punch quite nasty actually.
  13. Yes. I'm saving it for when my kids are older.
  14. And yes, I'm angry. I have done my best to make my pronouns neutral and keep to the facts. You might also get angry if you look at the 'brock Turner for 2016 Olympics' Facebook page and read lovely, predictable comments like this: "The outpouring of love and supportive emails I continue to receive is amazing and reaffirms my faith in the good people of this country. We MUST continue to teach our girls about the dangers of binge drinking and promiscuity. Keep control of yourselves and don't dress like s*uts and everything will be just fine. " Remember, this guy was caught in the act and found guilty in court.
  15. I'm pretty sure I answered when you quoted me. But I admit that I did step away for a while to sleep. You and others have completely ignored factual arguments and statistics. You and others continue to argue about an almost non existent grey area. This is one case, what we are saying is that both the sentence and tone of conversation are so darn predictable. People are doing their best to try and remedy the situation for around a quarter of women who will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, but apparently it's too hard to understand and unfair?
  16. No, I'm saying that a guy can be literally caught inside an unconscious woman, he gets 6 months and she gets called an idiot. On what planet is this good enough?
  17. I thought we already established that there is just not a trend of women changing their minds and confused men being charged? It hardly ever happens. Yet it gets 99% of the focus. A man is more likely to be sexually assaulted himself than be falsely accused. I err on the side of believing the victim, because overwhelmingly, statistically, they are telling the truth. It really isn't so complicated.
  18. Bluegoat - she just wanted to be heard. Victims so rarely are. She is not a lesson in how to avoid being raped, she is a real woman, angry and hurting. Eta- and she is far from the only one.
  19. They don't happen in a vacuum, you're right. I disagree that hookup culture is the main guilty party, it may at most provide some easier targets. Rapists rape across all cultural contexts. I don't personally agree with hookup culture at all - but it is too simplistic to blame it. Anecdotally, I was a promiscuous party girl once upon a time. I was never assaulted then. Years later I was attacked walking to work in broad daylight. My friend was a good girl who hardly ever went to parties and only ever had one drink. It didn't stop the uncle or neighbor or teacher or co-worker. It didn't stop someone spiking her one drink. Eta-she could count on half a hand the people who didn't disbelieve or partially blame her. Not one of any of these men were ever charged.
  20. The issue is not poor drunk guys just trying to have fun and getting confused,carried away or accused. The issue is not silly, reckless, vengeful girls. 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted. Very few rapists are brought to justice. This law takes away one layer of power from rapists in court - the baffling idea that having a drink increases the victim's responsibility whilst simultaneously lessening the rapist's. That the victim/perpetrator is overwhelmingly woman/man is not, I think, a coincidence.
  21. Oh, that's easy! Two simple steps: 1. Listen to and support victims. 2. Actually punish offenders. These laws are a first step. This guy was caught in the act. It took over a year to get him a slap on the wrist sentence and people on the internet (and I'll bet in real life too) call her an idiot and insinuate that it was her own fault.
  22. I thought that the thread title was pretty clearly pointing out that almost all genuine discussions about rape inevitably turn into repugnant debate over the minutiae of irrelevant tangents. I assumed that it was posted in the hope that people would actually listen to the victim this time.
  23. People cannot legally consent to many things if they are inebriated. Men or women. People can make stupid decisions when inebriated and would be wise to have a sober support person. Both men and women. This is not a case of demanding chivalrous behavior by another name. There is no flood of regret accusations, there just isn't. 54/100 victims never report. Only 3 out of every 100 rapists ever sees a day in prison. The law won't be applied in bedrooms on campus, it will be applied in court when testing evidence if charges are laid. Don't want to risk being accused? Don't have sex with drunk people. Easy peasy. It's not a trick! The only way that this becomes a men vs women issue is because 99% of rapists are men. The laws are there to level the playing field a little for victims who choose to report- because rapists (and society at large) traditionally paint the woman as responsible for allowing the rape by drinking, while simultaneously absolving themselves of any responsibility because they were drinking.
  24. Incidentally, I read today that a man is more likely to be raped/sexually assaulted himself (3%) than be falsely accused of raping someone (2%). Maybe, just maybe, regretful hussies aren't the big issue here...
  25. It's also because we are sick of the disingenuous excuses from rapists who apparently can't tell when a woman doesn't want to have sex with them. Fine, act dumb and this is the response you get. We'll make it crystal clear so the poor things don't get too confused. And so we have some tiny amount of recourse to object when we are raped again.
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