LMD
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Posts posted by LMD
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I'm curious, does 'grace' mean dad shouldn't have told his adult daughter not to come around when high? Does grace mean that a 'troubled' young adult has zero responsibility or consequences? How much abusive, disrespectful, traumatising to other children behaviour are the parents supposed to just absorb without having boundaries of their own?
Yeah, maybe I'm too sensitive at the moment for the takes in this thread...
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I was content with our 4 and it seemed nature was done for a long 9 years... then I had a lovely surprise 5th!
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4 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:
Oh that’s awful. We have never had the flu. I can’t imagine.
I’ve held him all day, but when his usual bedtime rolled around, I was able to put him down and he is sleeping!!
I'm glad he's sleeping & I hope you get some sleep too! Feel better soon Elizabeth-family
The only time my little guy has slept through the night was once, when he was sick 😅 iTired
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Oh man Melissa, praying they get the transfer sorted asap. Do you know which hospital?
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2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
Srsly, you’ve done everything BUT use the term deviant.
I guess we're done with goodwill then? And we were doing so well for a while there...
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Lol, yeah, she's such a villian, made worse by the fabulous acting while *checks notes* actively showing them love. 🙄
Do you believe that people hate their religious neighbour if they bring them a casserole but politely decline to recite a prayer?
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Just now, SHP said:
It costs you nothing to respect another person and use the pronouns they tell align with their internal truth, even if it differs from their external appearance.
Melissa is telling you it does cost something. I am telling you it does cost something. That you don't value the cost is different than there not being one.
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5 minutes ago, SHP said:
I must be old because I remember bigger = better. I did a Google search and found a lot of information about the history of breast augmentation and size. It was fascinating. Not sure if I can share those or not.
And I recall the tight biker shorts.
I will agree with the view that some fashion trends should stay in the past.
Yeah, I don't believe that fake - as in a plastic bust over the skin - z cup breasts and skin tight biker shorts was ever a standard look for female teachers.
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1 hour ago, SHP said:
If it is in violation of the dress code then should be addressed as such.
Giant fake boobs were, at one point, in style. I try not to judge, though on hot August afternoons I tend to slip up and wonder aloud what someone is thinking because it is too hot out.
Really? When were giant fake boobs in style for professional women, like teachers, who wanted to be taken seriously in their work? Did they also wear short, skin tight, bike shorts?
Come on.
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4 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:
Outside of a brief encounter, honestly, no. I honestly cannot imagine a scenario where a person of good will who has decided that for their own conscious they will not use a trans persons new name or acknowledge their identity actually goes about that. My understanding from you and Melissa and whoever else is that you are saying that you will not participate in what you perceive to be lie, you will not use pronouns or new names. I really can't see how that goes in regular interaction. I'm not being a brat, I just honestly can't figure out how it goes.
Say at homeschool park day one of the parents is trans. Say they don't pass even remotely so its very obvious. How do you in genuine goodwill interact with that person? How does holding that boundary look in practice.
I'm from the south were being polite is of the utmost importance. Manners and being polite are all about making the other people around you comfortable, not just about strict adherence to "the rules". If you tell Ms. Beth next door that your name is Kristy and she calls you Carla, you answer to Carla when Ms. Beth calls you because its polite. There are whole sitcom episodes about not being able to correct people that have your name wrong because its too awkward. I can't square these two things with you holding a boundary that says you must call this trans person by their birth identity. I am genuinely curious.
You keep misstating my position. I don't believe I said I wouldn't use a new name, generally I don't have a problem with that.
It works if both sides assume goodwill. Chat and engage them like any other person. They see that I am kind and welcoming. We make small talk about our children. I probably would avoid gendered pronouns. They would probably notice but, I would hope, realise by my actions that I don't hate them, I'm not treating them any differently. Honestly most of my interactions go like that. If they bring it up I'll say something like 'thank you for telling me, you are welcome here, I hope you understand that I will do my best to use language that we can both be okay with.' Some version of that has worked with a variety of issues, including with colleagues. I don't see why trans people should be a special class of human that I can't be kindly honest with? I just don't see debate and disagreement as hate but I'm starting to think I'm in the minority on that.
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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:
Thanks for that. I don't think males behaving inappropriately in the workplace is something I'd approve of but never say never. I've seen some things. Life is messy.
Amen to that
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46 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
We have gender non-specific guidelines that would still result in employee counseling, the size of your breasts or HOW you cover them not being one of them. My colleagues and I wear KNEE-LENGTH dresses without issues, CALF-LENGTH pants without issues, and blazers/suits for more formal occasions. \Maybe you haven't been in the workplace for a minute but most people get the memo just by looking around.
Yeah most people do. Women certainly do. Some males who claim a trans identity - the examples I gave are from real life, verifiable sources - don't seem to.
Eta - hence my asking about a clash of protected classes.
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57 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
Maybe b/c I am HR adjacent? No one is POO-POOING workplace abuse here.
I didn't think you would ignore workplace abuse. You seem predisposed to want to fight for justice.
I just think we have very different ideas of what does and does not constitute workplace abuse. When people are super quick to call *possible* non use of preferred pronouns as abusive, but examples of males behaving sexually inappropriately in the workplace is completely brushed off if they claim a protected class status, well then I think that's a blind spot.
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18 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:
A couple of people have insisted that they would hold a boundary against using the pronouns they perceive as being lies. I'm assuming they would do so in as polite a manner as it could be done. I imagine it would go something like what I stated. Otherwise I'm not sure how that would go. How does one refuse to go along with it without actually stating that you won't?
I said I reserve the right to hold my own boundaries - not that I would go around shoving that in people's faces. I've explicitly said this a few times now so the implication is getting annoying.
In a situation comparable to yours I probably would just say something like, "sorry, how may I help you."
Can you imagine a scenario where two people with genuine goodwill and differing strong convictions can respect one another?
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1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:
Threads move fast, so I certainly don't blame you for not remembering, but I said a few hours ago that I don't care for that line of argument around the topic.
I was not abusive, if anything I thought she was overly harsh at the time, but I was a shy teenager and was embarrassed.
I do think arguing with her would have been rude on my part. If I had said, "I'm sorry, but I perceive you as being a man, so I'll stick with sir", as some here are saying they would do would have been very unkind and I'd have come off as a bit of a jerk. If I had escalated beyond that, to the point of yelling, etc. it could have gotten to the point of being abusive.
I simply said, "My apologies, ma'am" and went on, which cost me nothing at all.
I don't believe anyone has said they would say that, actually.
Thanks for your response.
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6 minutes ago, SHP said:
Can you please give a specific example of what what you mean by "professionally inappropriate, sexist manner"?
Too short/tight skirts
Cocktail dresses
Showing underwear
Stuff that would get female employees a talking to.
Or in the case of the Canadian teacher, gigantic fake boobs and bike shorts.
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1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:
She was very stern when she corrected me. She VERY much did care that I had said sir instead of Ma'am.
Okay, I stand corrected.
Would you say you had been abusive?
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Just now, Sneezyone said:
Are you talking about attire? Any employee who shows up inappropriately attired with exposed genitalia would be counseled.
I'm not talking about actual flashing.
You seem to have much more faith in hr departments supporting women being sexually harrassed than I do... especially if the harasser can claim a protected class.
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12 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
It is messy. It's still the law. Your conscience ends at the tip of someone else's nose/ear is how I generally talk about it.
Okay. Does this work for the protected class of sex too? If the boss is genderfluid and presents part time in a professionally inappropriate, sexist manner, that makes the female employees uncomfortable - is that harrassment? Is that protected? That happened with Phillip/Pippa Bunce at Credit Suisse.
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3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
OK, love that. If you TRULY believe, and maybe you don't...that's a possibility...that misgendering people and calling them out of their name/pronouns at work is your right and an offense against you, LIVE THAT LIFE and let us know how it goes.
How should it go?
Can you conceive of any possible way to compromise?
I have already said that I don't go misgendering people to their faces & treat all people with the respect due their dignity as fellow humans. I simply reserve that same respect for myself.
I'm sure you understand how important, in healing, being able to name truth is.
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Just now, Sneezyone said:
Yes.
What is the procedure for a clash of protected rights?
Eta - this isn't a gotcha I'm genuinely curious. I've seen how it's played out in the UK and it always seems messy
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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:
You would be wrong according to the law in my state. Gender and gender identity are protected classes. You'd be out of a job right smart and in a hurry if you insisted on calling people anything other than what they prefer to be called on a regular basis.
Is sex a protected class?
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2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
No. I am saying, and I have said, the insistence on misgendering (if that is TRULY a conviction you cannot deviate from lest violate your deeply held convictions) is antithetical to employment because it is abuse/harrassment.
That is not what I have said. You're arguing with a straw man.
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Just now, PronghornD said:
Are you thinking of me when you say "Prong"? Or is there someone named Prong? I don't think I talked about accidentally misgendering anyone.
You are right, my apologies! Wrong poster!
S/O integrated high school math that is quality
in The Chat Board
Posted
You could look at books outside the US. Like MEP maths suggested above (UK), Aus textbooks are integrated for highschool maths. Cambridge & Jacaranda do decent ones.