I know many people are against apologia, but we absolutely love it. I saw that you were considering TOG, so thought I'd throw it out there... We use Apologia "Exploring Creation With..." series with my 6th grade & under (all together). I currently have a 4th grade, 2nd grade, and K doing the Flying Creatures. I ordered the notebook for my oldest, so he does the writing activities, etc. My K just listens and makes his own notebook with cutting pics out of magazines, etc. My 2nd grade does the activities appropriate for his age level (he has a notebook too, but doesn't necessarily do all of it). When they hit 7th grade, they move to the General Science, Physical Science, and then in high school start with the Biology. These are done independently by the students so I don't have to teach 2 different levels of science (though I do oversee it and grade their work, etc). It's worked well for us, and my kids are loving it and learning a lot. (I also have 2 older kids- one taking Biology this year (and a lab with our coop), and the other Physical Science with the lab).

My son (9th grade this year, but 10th grade age) did Physical science last year in 8th/9th grade, and then Biology this year in 9th/10th grade. He skipped the general science all together. (He did have a life science in 7th grade, but we didn't discover Apologia until he was in 8th/9th). It's been some work for him since he's doing all the labs with our co-op and has had to keep up with all the assignments. But it's certainly manageable. My daughter took general in 7th, physical in 8th, and may wait until 10th to do Biology depending on what our co-op decides. (It seemed Apologia recommended waiting until 10th to do the Biology, but I can't remember why). It also will depend on when our coop offers it, since I need them to be doing the Biology labs elsewhere. (They both did the general and physical labs at home with no problems). I don't think it would take 3 years to do the two courses. My son took about 2 weeks to complete each module, and had an extra couple of weeks for "catch up". I personally wouldn't plan on taking extra time. The General science is an overview of science (a first introduction), with half the module being life and the other half physical science. The Physical science covers the same things as the General 2nd half of the book but goes into more detail. If they took physical science this year (the new students), then next year would be almost unnecessary to take the general science - they could go straight to Biology or take a different life science. I guess you don't have enough students or interest to offer both classes? Your options seem to be: 1) Have all the kids take Physical science and see what next year holds for everyone's interest, or 2) offer General science again and have the older kids skip science this year and do physical science next year in high school (Not a great option for science-majors) OR 3) Offer General Science again and have the older kids do the Physical Science on their own at home, which is certainly do-able, moving them on to Biology next year. I would tend to vote that the general science could be skipped if they have had a life science before at all, and you should stick with your schedule and offer physical science. Is it just a science coop or are there other classes offered?

For the most part, no. However, if my older kids don't have their clothes sorted and put into the laundry bags (in the laundry room) when I do it, then they are responsible for doing their own. Everyone does not have their own hamper, we have a 3-bag laundry sorter in our laundry room. Hot (underwear, socks, towels, etc), Special (Hang-up or delicate items that the kids rarely have unless it's an AWANA uniform), and Everything else (for regular clothes that I sort into light & dark as I do laundry). My 13yo daughter likes to pile her dirty clothes behind her bedroom door. If I do laundry and her clothes aren't out, she has to do them all or be without clothes for the week. My 15yo son has the same problem with clothes on his bedroom floor- but they aren't allowed to complain about nothing being clean.

That's what I was wondering!!!

Different denominations (actually each individual church) chooses based on their own reasons. Some for readability, some for accuracy, etc. My husband chooses the NASB for our family because he has looked at the original in Hebrew/Greek and thinks it's the most accurate. But my kids are using the KJV in AWANA (though they are allowed to use a different version if they choose- it makes it easier for the leaders to have all the kids using the same version, whatever it is), and our church uses a different version- it makes it easier to follow along if someone is reading aloud, but of course they allow other versions. There is no "real" Bible (where the other denominations are not valid), there are good things about each of them. They all say the same thing ultimately. I'd get your daughter the same version as the rest of the family, especially if you read together as a family. If you don't, you could just choose a popular kids version (there seem to be the most kid versions in NIV, but we found a Kid's Study Bible using NASB and since they were going out of print, ordered them for all my kids before they could even read - I still have one sitting on the shelf waiting for my 5 year old to grow into it). The kid versions usually have slightly larger print, and put in some explanations or character sketches throughout. There are a few pictures as well. But the text is the same. I wouldn't worry about it. I think the KJV was the first translation, and that may be why some won't use anything else.

Thanks again, Mountain, for your thoughts on this. That's why I posed the question. I agree about not trying FRC without sponsors and mentors. I am not sure if we have those yet or not... I've just put something in our homeschool newsletter and am waiting for responses. If we end up with dads with tons of time, interest, and experience, I'd love to go with FRC. We just attended a FRC event this weekend and saw the robots and the challenges. We talked with lots of people there, and are seeing what is involved. I know if there is no-one but me & my husband to lead, we probably won't be able to start any group at all. We probably will end up starting with FTC. It looks much more manageable, but still challenging for the kids. We'll have a small group of less than 10 it looks like. I really want all of them to be fully involved with it. That's great that you did so well in the competition for your first year. I do think that states should only allow teams from that state to enter the state competition. You are right that it's misleading. It wouldn't mean nearly as much to us if we won the award for another state. Thanks for all the help & information. I'm still looking at it and hope to get things together by summer.

April, Thank you so much! I'd love to be connected to a team in San Diego. I'll send you a PM.

BTW, Mountain, how did your team do this year?

Mountain, thank you very much for your thoughts. I will order that book. Is it helpful for both FTC and FRC? We do want to go with FRC, but I will have to find out if we have enough interest and sponsors. Do we have to decide right away? Is the FTC a kit and doesn't need a workshop to put together the robot in? I take it you are with FTC? Are the challenges similar? If we start with FTC, could we switch to FRC the following year and keep the same name, etc? Thank you for the link, Jane- I will look it up. The information is overwhelming to me- I'm just trying to get my kids involved in something I think they would enjoy and be good for them, but I have NO experience or knowledge. I guess that's changing....

I'm looking for information in starting a First Robotics team for the 2011-2012 school year. If anyone has a team in the San Diego area, I'd love to meet with you and learn more about how things work. We just went to the competition today and now are more determined to make this work. If you are not in San Diego, I'd still love to hear thoughts on: Finding mentors (someone to lead & teach), sponsors, and a place to build Cost involved (numbers- even approximate would be nice) Good number of kids on a team (we saw teams today with more than 20 kids, but were told that 4 was a good number....) Differences between First Tech Challenge & First Robotics Competition How much time does the team meet each week? When does the team start meeting? What are some things I need to consider when finding a team? Do you do marketing to advertise your team? Do you send a newsletter to your sponsors? How many sponsors does a team need to be fully funded? How many hours/week do you spend finding sponsors & doing paperwork? Thanks for any responses on this. We are wondering if it's really feasible to start this, or if we should settle for the tech challenge. We have no robotics experience at all, but want to find someone who can teach and encourage our group of kids who have giftedness in these areas.

It did wonders for us. I have some natural spellers, but my oldest couldn't spell worth anything. He was an avid reader, but couldn't spell at *all*. I used level 1 for all of my children, grades 1-8. It's pattern based, so you are memorizing the sounds for each of the words. We used whiteboards and dry erase markers, which were fun for the kids. Less paperwork, and easier to correct the words when you were wrong. I saw a HUGE improvement in my poor speller the very first week. It's like something clicked with him. My others- they were natural spellers anyway, and it hasn't harmed them, but I think anything would have worked. Pros: 1. Can be used with all age levels together, 2. no stress of "tests" & grading, 3. focuses on the sounds used and teaches how to put them together, 4. doesn't take much time each day (unless you have a slow writer), 5. it's visual (great for visual & kinesthetic learners), 6. LOTS of repetition (so even if they miss the word the first couple days, it comes back in various forms and often enough that they eventually get it). Cons: 1. Some of the words used aren't really used today- so to use them in a sentence, I had to look them up (Great for vocabulary building, though), 2. it's not something they can do on their own- it takes someone reading off the words to them every day. (I've assigned my 8th grader to do spelling with my younger boys, so she reviews her spelling while teaching them).

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Yes- I would replace the books if I lost them. I'd probably replace them (if I could) even if she *thought* I lost them and I was pretty sure I had returned them. I wouldn't want the books to come between us. However, she thinks she has returned them. I'd probably give them up as lost, and have a lesson learned. If she knew she had lost them (& admitted it), it would be a different story. Since there was no written agreement, there's not much that can be done. It's one word against another. In the future- to loan expensive stuff (or anything you don't want to give away), I'd have a written agreement- just a list of what she has, and then when it's returned, the page gets ripped up. We have a curriculum library in our area that does this.

I guess it would depend on how "anti-Christian" the secular homeschoolers were. My son says that he hasn't seen any overt Biblical teaching, but he is also not very far into the course. He says on the forum there are mostly Christians (many denominations), but some atheists as well. I suppose if one was not anti-Christian, they could focus more on the writing skills and ignore the rest. He says in the webinars that occur monthly, there is some mention of God, but students can choose whether to attend or not and the topic is posted. It's hard not to have your world view come out when you are teaching a course. I think he was just telling people before they paid money for it what his beliefs were. I have not looked at the course in depth, but have liked what I have seen in terms of the lessons.

My husband learned some Greek, and the advantage was that he can read the New Testament in it's original language. I'm sure not many find this a good enough reason, so you'll have to decide for you & your son if you want him to attend that school. (That may be the only reason you find that makes it worth it). The benefits seem to me to far outweigh the enjoyment of a summer break with no school at all. I'm sure he'd still have somewhat of a break. He'd probably be glad of it when it was done. And any language one learns gives them an advantage in life and makes it easier for them to learn another.

I am not on very much, and haven't gotten around to it. I didn't know how, but am sure I could figure it out if I tried. I wasn't sure people were really interested, but noticed that people go visit my profile sometimes after I post. So maybe they are. I do like when people mention in their posts the ages & curriculum of their kids- not so I can discount what they say, but because it gives me an idea of where they are coming from. Maybe I'll add one.

We bought this a couple years ago and my son is loving it- however, he got stuck (perfectionist) and hasn't progressed with it. He is involved on their forum, though, and gets tons of ideas and writing experience there... I really would like to put him back on a schedule with it and take away forum privileges unless he has completed the week's assignments. The content is good- the first semester is putting ideas down on paper and learning about themes, characters, plots, etc. and the 2nd semester is actually writing the novel. If I were more consistent with enforcing it, he'd be done by now. But I saw this as an "elective" course, so haven't pushed it.

Congratulations! Can you tell me how you can win a state championship and not go to the World Fest? Did no-one in your state get to go? I'm not really sure how it all works. Also, I'd love to see *any* websites related to this, since we are new at it and wanting to start a group for next school year.

:bigear: I am planning to start my own group this year (first time), so sorry I can't give you any suggestions. But I am really interested in any input from others about this.

Wow- the responses here surprised me. I never thought people who owned a business would put a fish in order to increase business. So far in this poll, more than half are LESS likely to choose the business if they see a fish sign. (However, if I had a business, I might be inclined to put a fish out). The reason I'd be more likely to choose the business, is because from *my experience*, Christians are more likely to make things right and to do business honorably. I would not expect a discount, and I would expect them to live up to quality work & to make it right if they make a mistake. If I received poor service from a Christian business, I just wouldn't go back. But I do like to give them a chance. Being a TRUE Christian, one would be inclined to do a better job, caring about the service as well as good quality work. They would operate their business under the scripture to do their work as unto the Lord. I see the fish sign and think the owner has integrity, they won't try to cheat me, they do their work honestly and will be fair in their dealings. However, if I find out otherwise, I won't recommend them or go back.

I didn't read anywhere that it was the 12 year old who had done it- it just said he was in custody and there were no other suspects. He was the one who called 911. The younger kids could probably give some insight.... This is really sad. I hope they have family who will be able to take the younger children. Or at least someone in their church.

If he can read the teacher's instructions and the dictionary, I don't think you need to worry about whether he's memorizing or using phonics. :) We have children like this. My friend thought he had a book memorized when he was 3 or 4, but when I told her that it was new and he'd never seen it before, she was really surprised. She covered up the words to see what he would do, and he thought she was ridiculous for expecting him to be able to "read" it without seeing the words. That's when she believed me. I teach them using phonics (I have 5 children, and they all picked it up fairly quickly). But as soon as they "take off" and start reading EVERYTHING, including teacher instructions and the dictionary, I quit all formal phonics teaching. I continued with my first, making him mark all the vowels, etc, and he really started hating school because it was busywork. If I could do it over again, I'd move on to other more interesting things. Have him read aloud (and continue reading aloud to him) to ensure that he's pronouncing the words correctly, and then start reading for content. Focus on science or other things that he really loves. Make it fun. Keep his interest.

I haven't read any other responses, but I didn't see our category so put "other". We have a tv, but no cable, and no rabbit ears. Therefore, no channels at all. We also don't watch on the computer (except there is one show that my teenage son watches on the computer). For the rest of us, we watch DVD's (from the library only, or ones we own- we don't spend money on them), but I couldn't really say "occasionally" with a clear conscience. Each week when we go to the library, each child picks one movie (we have 5 children), and I pick ones I want them to see (educational). My 13 year old daughter likes some tv series like Little House on the Prairie, so she will get a season at a time. We usually watch DVD's in the evening while I fold laundry, or before bed, or sometimes in the afternoon someone will put on their movie they chose from the library. My sister uses "screen time" as a term for tv, movies, computer, electronic games, etc. and she only allows 1 hour per day of "screen time" for her girls. (They choose whether to watch tv, have a computer turn, or play on their games). They are all still young; the oldest is almost 8. But I love that idea because when we're not doing schoolwork, my kids go from the movie, to the computer, to their gameboy. I really want them to not be spending so much time WATCHING stuff, but haven't made the hard & fast rule yet.

:iagree: Us, too. My kids need the down time to learn things like getting along, sharing, finding something creative to do- and more importantly, I need the down time to re-evaluate, plan my school year, clean, etc. We do read-alouds sometimes, library books and field trips, but those don't count for this thread. Of course, anytime my kids *want* to learn something, we'll learn it. And we do make a library trip 1x/week for books since they are readers. They all score above average on the SAT's, even if we missed stuff during the year because of a baby or something. Maybe you need a poll for this- I'd love to hear other responses.

Mostly I agree with you. However, I've taken to texting whenever I can for several reasons. I don't have a cell phone except one that's on my dad's plan that he had for emergencies- no monthly fee, but 35cents per minute, in or out (but first incoming minute free). This adds up, so I RARELY use it at all. Recently, he added text, which is $5 per month, but unlimited (for me since I'd never text so much as to reach the actual limit). So I text whenever I can rather than using the phone. I text things like when I'm leaving (to a relative or friend when I'm meeting them), if I'm running late, I answer texts when asked a question by others, etc. I don't use it for entertainment ever, but rather to transmit information in an inexpensive way. My teens love to text for me, especially if I'm driving or otherwise busy (since I refuse to use the phone in any capacity when I'm driving), so they are learning to text and for some reason love it. I think it's too time consuming, but it does get information to someone right away. I also text when I want to ask a friend a question like, "Do you want to go on a walk?" (right now), but know she homeschools & babysits young children so don't want to interrupt her with a phone call. People tend to think phone calls more urgent than a text. I know if she doesn't get back to me, it wasn't a convenient time for her. It's much faster to look at a text & get a message (and quieter) than it is to answer a phone. It's also easier to ignore, and you don't feel you are bothering someone by texting. This all coming from someone who never liked cell phones, and still don't use mine except very rarely (less than once/week). Hope this helps you understand another perspective, though. I agree with you that teens tend to rely on it way too much.