That is a seriously tough call. I have both girls and boys and I used to get down about the fact that the boys had Dec. b-days and missed the cut-off for school the year they turned 5. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Neither one were terribly ready to sit down and focus and school was not a priority at 5 for them. Play was a big priority and they needed lots of time to be boys. If it was just your son, I would suggest the TK. You have a unique situation b/c you have boy/girl twins and are trying to think about down the road and keep them together. I am not in CA, but in our experience with trying to advance after starting at 5 turning 6 for kindergarten...the public school system normally requires that your student be working 2 full grade levels or test 2 full grade levels (with a public school test and proctor normally for gifted placement) ahead of the grade they are currently enrolled to bump a grade up. So if say you do TK this year and in 5th grade decide hey they are ready for 6th grade and you want to bump them up, then they would have to test 7th grade level to skip to 6th grade. It is odd logic, but seems to be the standard rule of thumb. That or they have to test gifted and have a really high IQ. In my experience, jumping charters doesn't change the need to prove the student is working 2 grade levels ahead to skip a grade on paper no matter what level they are working in reality. We have been in a charter and had 2 of our children need their grade levels changed or adjusted and it was just really a lot of red tape and in the end neither were able to be fixed after we had declared their grade 2 years ago. I realize all charters are different, but I also learned that the rules they tell you the year you join may be totally different several years down the road. So the ability to move up or down a grade may be something they will tell you is doable now and in 3-5 years the charter will have changed rules and it won't be doable. I would probably go into it with the mentality that this grade is the grade you are married to until graduation if you stay with the charter. Now, if it were me...I would look at the kids separately. I would decide based on what I would do if I was putting them in brick and mortar school. If I felt dd4 was ready for kindergarten, I would place her there. If I felt ds4 was not there yet, I would do TK. I have kids that are stair steps and each has their own talents and skills and areas that they shine. I have girls with July and August b-days. They were ready at 5 to start school and one was 4 for the 1st month of kindergarten and did great. If you are dead set on them being in the same grade starting out, then I would do the TK for both. If I wouldn't be comfortable with ds4 going to a b&m public kindergarten and thinking he would do well at 5, then I wouldn't put him in a public charter at 5 for k. If it was super important to me that they be in the same grade, then I would start dd out in TK as well. My husband has twin cousins (both boys) and they went to b&m all the way through and they did not graduate in the same year. It did not change the way they felt about school or each other. Some times things just change along the way and one child needs more time than the other or one child struggles in high school to get credits. If you are starting out knowing they are at different levels of readiness already, then I would place them individually in the grade level I felt they were ready for this year.

It is just a test. It really doesn't mean anything. It can show you weak areas and knowing what to work on can be great, but don't evaluate your child based solely on this test. I definitely do not expect my children to test in the top 10% on everything on a standardized test. I file our tests every year in their cumulative records. I do work on the weak areas and each year they make gains with them, but I am not cutting out all our extras over one test score. I think your dd scored really well. The Iowa test is not a mastery test. It is designed to find out how much your student knows. Raw Score (RS) number correct Percent Correct (PC) raw score is divided… Percentile Rank (PR) shows the student’s relative position or rank in a group, more than ½ of all students fall between 25th and 75th. Stanine (S) groupings of percentile ranks. Grade Equivalent (GE) not grade level mastery! Grade level at which the typical student has obtained a given raw score. Developmental Standard Score (SS) developmental standard score is a number that describes a student’s location on an achievement continuum. Normal Curve Equivalent (NCE) Normalized Score Scale, ranges like PR, but can be averaged. Standard Age Score (SAS) Scale, with range from 50 to 150 for all age groups. The SAS has a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 16. You want to look at your stanine alongside your NPR to get a feel for if your dd is below average, average, above average in a particular area of the test. Looking at your dd's score- Overall Composite Scores: SS: 224 GE: 6.5 NS: 7 NPR: 78 This powerpoint explaining a lot about the IOWA test and how to evaluate scores and the big picture of it all in relation to determining what areas need work is very helpful. Your dd scored really well. http://archives.doe.k12.ga.us/DMGetDocument.aspx/ITBS%20Score%20Interpretation.ppt?p=6CC6799F8C1371F63BFCBA0BEE308DFF0543430A41B3D0A4DD089B2D3997F72E&Type=D Your dd scored higher than what is on grade-level for all of these measurements for the IOWA test. :) So I think you are doing a great job!

They only let you use so many free weeks in a year. Doing code after code does not work anymore.

I agree with OneStepAtATime. I would rule out that it isn't something more causing the appearance of laziness. The statement about pencil to paper difficulties and being totally behind in language arts really makes me think you should rule out any dys-type issues. Dysgraphia/dyslexia/dyscalcula....a lot of these kids are so bright when talking to them but on paper they just flounder so they avoid it.

My dyslexic/dysgraphic son bombed the IOWA test this year so we retook the online Stanford which is untimed and gives one question at a time. Much less overwhelming. Anyway, his score jumped way higher on Stanford. We won't do the IOWA with him again unless they come out with an online test similar to the Stanford. He did the online CAT last year and his scores were much better than the previous years that he did the paper/pencil test.

I have used TT before with dc. I was fairly happy with it and we used it a year advanced. I was happy until we switched to the charter school and my dd's TT6 was almost the equivalent of k-12's 4th grade except the k-12's 4th grade was more advanced than TT6 in certain areas. Knowing that now, I have used our TT books just as review during the summer and I use them 2 grades ahead. We won't use it for our only math program again or use it with just the child working on the computer and myself checking the grades. They get quite a few tries on each problem so they may have flunked the lesson the first time through and you really won't know unless you explore and click on each question to see how many tries it took. For us, it was easy for me b/c I pretty much let them do math on the computer...but it came back to haunt us at the end of the year testing and when we switched to a charter school.

We did it for a year and a half. I have 4 kids though and it became too overwhelming for us. Two of my children hated it altogether although they did well academically. It was a lot of computer time. We did k, 4, 6, and 7 our first year. This year we were in 1st, 5th, 7th, and 8th although my 8th grader was placed in the high school system and all high school courses. My 1st grader was working ahead as well. My 5th grader was drowning even with a 504 for his dyslexia. My 7th grader knew how to work the system and the tests and hated it all. I would not recommend doing it with more than 2 children. For me, the high school was so drastically different than the k-8 that my student struggled and her teachers were constantly switching for the classes. They could change things mid quarter or semester and there was nothing you could do about it. Our state's k-12 is in it's 3rd year. Last year, they pretty much left you alone if you were competent and your child was making progress. This year, they really wanted everyone at the same pace and to have flipped classrooms and mandatory class connects. They were going in and marking to skip lessons that weren't state required. This was in Pre-Algebra and my older dd had been through Pre-Algebra the year before and you need those lessons for the next course Algebra. I had enough around Thanksgiving and we went back to regular homeschooling. The only thing I miss is that it was free. It was hard seeing the amount of money we spent on curricula this February. My kids are happier now though.

Have you checked into whether the Catholic school has any "scholarships" or "financial aid". Most private schools do have them for financially eligible students and if your student has been with the school for a while then they are more likely to get one as well. We did them when the kids were in day school (pre-k) while dh was going to school at night.

My kid was in public school just a few short years ago for 3rd grade before we pulled to homeschool and this was an assignment for her as well. It is a typical 3rd/4th grade assignment when you start studying about state history. It is different for each state when that exactly is, but it is something that their public schooled peers will be doing as well.

I personally think the Sadlier-Oxford Math is really well done. You can buy it as well as a homeschooler. I wouldn't change their math--especially the 4th grader. http://schoolstore.sadlier.com/?__hstc=13306344.b9ce4ea70658961145fbf7c7b06841f4.1399550263447.1399550263447.1399550263447.1&__hssc=13306344.1.1399550263448&__hsfp=3189273956

The ability to write well and longer is a skill for the kids even if the material is not as challenging as you would like. In fact, I would say that it is easier to tackle the writing if you have a firm grasp on the material and what it is asking you to write. Preparing is World History and we went into Preparing this year with ds11 specifically b/c he needed to work on his writing and taking thoughts to paper. He can orally tell me all day long what is being asked of him, but written work is really struggling. He would have definitely placed in CTC if it weren't for the writing. I would say the history will still be stimulating with Preparing, but the science is definitely not as much in Preparing as CTC. Maybe pick an Apologia science to do alongside it? I am going to be the odd man out though and say that I probably would separate into different programs for a year. I would probably do option 2. I really don't think going backwards at any time is a good idea. While placement is key, thinking about where your child will be intellectually challenged is important as well.

We used ours on Tuesday. :) It seems weird that next year I will only have 2 eligible kids to participate. Time flies.

I will say the company I placed the testing service with was very nice and helpful and seemed appalled at her behavior. They were very matter of fact that it was not her schedule to do with as she pleased and she had to go by the timed schedule that was given to her as proctor and relayed to us when we signed up for the test. I did explain the Learning RX pitch as well and they said she should not be marketing her services at all. They seemed to really want to deal with the situation. They offered me a refund but I declined since my ds did complete his test and he was mainly in the dark about it all. I am glad I called before the testing today b/c she had cut each section to 20 min between call-ins and was going to have the test concluding an hour earlier than originally scheduled. There was no way my son could test in that amount of time. It was through a company that the proctoring is listed online and she is a proctor testing every week through this month. I hope that she doesn't continue to be unprofessional.

Well I didn't make it to him finishing testing today before calling. Our "proctor" sent out a revised schedule first thing this morning cutting an hour off our testing schedule b/c each section gives 20 min. suggested testing time. So I called the testing center and I told them all about the rushing, the schedule changes, and the marketing campaign. They offered me a refund and called her. So now she has sent an email requesting that we bring any issues directly to her and keeps mentioning since some people had "issues" that we will have to go with the original schedule and if you finish in 10 minutes you will just have a really long break. I am writing a complaint letter to the testing company I ordered from as well as directly to Pearson. This is just beyond the pale. It has been an awful testing experience.

He finished today's testing, but has another morning of testing tomorrow. I did not call her to get her to start the tests with her cell phone number. We called the Stanford session # instead. I really don't want to talk to her on the phone again. I texted her to get her to re-open his paused test for vocabulary that he was only 7 shy of finishing and she was rushing to restart the next sessions so he really wasn't struggling. My friend suggested that I do the test as instructed by Pearson emails and after he is through testing complain. I just really felt that she had prior knowledge of his dyslexia...he completed a section successfully and within time limits...then the vocabulary he still had 7 problems left when it was time to call in for the next section...so we paused it per the directions in the email and called in to the next section successfully and began it...she then called me and I felt like I was being urged to say he was struggling and then she kept saying this group were fast testers...I don't know...then it was she was a specialist with dysgraphia/dyslexia and owned the local Learning RX. it just seemed so staged to set up her services. I will probably call the testing center after testing is complete tomorrow b/c I just feel she will use this on other people as well. She is a new proctor I was told when I set up his test.

...call your house during testing to ask if your dyslexic student it struggling with an untimed test b/c we paused a section to go on to the next scheduled section at the appropriate time...given the fact that the proctor is local...turns out to own the Learning RX facility in town....and wants you to just call her cell phone to open the testing sessions instead of the 800# with your testing session # when the other kids are read the directions... I felt that it was a bit out of bounds and she was asking me what part of his brain was effected by the dyslexia and they could fix the synopsis in his brain that causes the dyslexia... The proctor also was moving faster than the schedule. She was saying things like when 2/3 of the "class" is finished we will move on to the next section for the fast testers and the other testers can call in at a different time and such. I felt rushed and so did my child. But then when she called my house since I am local and she knew ds had dyslexia b/c he has accommodations...and started talking about owning Learning RX and if my child was struggling with the test...I felt put on the spot and I couldn't help my child with his accommodations b/c she was talking to me on the phone during the testing. She finally realized I needed to help my ds with his test and said you are testing but we can talk later...she has all my contact info and I don't want a sales pitch on how to cure his dyslexia/dysgraphia with expensive sessions at Learning RX. Am I being too sensitive or is this crossing a line?

The advice is always the same on several boards. It is always tell the school to stuff it just not said in so many words. There are people that do have to figure things out and are asking legitimately for help to get their kids back in school and telling the school tough is not the answer. "It's their job to deal with it" is not good advice and really seemed like hey I am a homeschooler, I did my own thing, you deal with it...I don't really care where you place my child now that they need to go back. The original poster asked for help not tell them to deal with it. Also, every single place is different in homeschooling rules and things do change. We have been in the position of having to go back to school and knowing what exactly to submit is important and how to get the school what they are looking for if you didn't school the way the school wants you to report so that your student will be placed properly is important as well. I wouldn't have said anything if it wasn't that the advice is always tell them to stuff it you are a homeschooler that didn't do x,y,z. It wasn't helpful advice to the poster. It is always antagonistic advice when it is questions like this and honestly would you put your student in the position of being placed wrong in classes by handing stuff to an administration and telling them to deal with it. That is just bad advice and it was meant to be antagonistic. Anyone can get someone with a BA to proctor the IOWA test. It really isn't that hard. You may have to pay the proctor but the schools accept the Iowa without question. They wouldn't touch the CAT with a 10 foot pole but had a teacher proctor the IOWA and they accepted it no problem and put kids in advanced classes.

And this thread has helped me to understand CC more without the pressure. My friends that do CC love it and I don't want to belittle what is working for them, but feel the answers to my questions are biased a little by their love of the program. So a thread like this with all the discussion of how CC worked was really great for me.

This whole thread just makes me go Wow! I mean we are quoting psychiatrists and neurologists and such on child development to ascertain whether a homeschool co-op (yes that is what CC is essentially) is justified in requiring a minimum age to do a certain level of their program. I did go and I did sit in and everyone that I talked to from CC said it is so much and so heavy and all that, but personally comparing it to what we are doing now which is definitely Socratic thinking and reasoning skills not plug and chug...but Challenge 1 is less than what we are doing at home for 8th grade and 7th grade for both of my girls. The more I have thought about it...the more I feel like it is school lite and you do have to get into the "school" mindset. While I wouldn't say it is drink the koolaid mentality, I have been a public school parent. There is a certain mindset that you have that if things are semi-working well and your child is thriving not to rock the boat or cause waves in that type of setting. You want to become friends with the administration b/c they are caring for your child. You don't want to be seen as an antagonist to that environment. I do think joining CC does require at least at the Challenge level to shift your mindset and maybe your goals and schedule for your child for them to succeed in the CC environment. That isn't a bad thing if that is what you want. I have decided not to go back to the other cc campus and visit. I have done the school mindset and followed a "school" path before with my children. That was elementary school and I did feel caged in and my kids were caged in b/c they were advanced in different subjects and they were stagnant at school. The age requirements and the uncertainty of being able to go up in levels in math and science for cc feels like it would be putting them back into that one size fits all box that we escaped from when we started home schooling. I also don't believe that you are incapable of thinking at a certain level until you hit 14. That is insane. We are not robots. We do not hit maximum achievement with dialect exactly on our 14th birthdays. The more I think about that mentality the more it reminds me of a public school standard and that is not what I am trying to achieve with my children. At 14, they can take college courses on a real college campus and I am going to invest my money with that instead of a tutor program that isn't really a tutor but more a of a learning guide that may or may not understand the materials...I can pay tuition for a Professor with a degree to teach my child exactly where they are at right now instead of holding them back and repeating a year of math and science b/c an organization feels you must be 14 to have in-depth Socratic discussions with your peers.

I did talk to them about an exception and it is a really formal process. You have to formally request it of your campus in writing, then they have to send it to the district director, and it has to go all the way to national. I asked b/c dd13 and dd12 are both working on Apologia Physical Science and Saxon Algebra 1 this year. dd12 wouldn't be able to do Challenge 1 for another year with the age requirement. They are making it where Challenge 1 has to take all 6 strands and not trade out or skip anything. So for us they were just saying...but Physical Science and Algebra will be great review for your dd. Ummm...we are not standing still for a year in science and math. The new age requirement for Challenge 1 goes into effect this year in the fall. It is national. Apparently there has always been an age requirement for Challenge A and they are extending one to Challenge 1 this next year. The reasons seem to be quite a few and not just one, but they are set in stone and there is apparently a huge process to get an exception. ETA-yes, she may be able to move during math but they didn't know if she would be able to move to Biology instead of Physical Science. I am on the fence really. It is a lot of money for her to repeat 2 classes, but if we really aren't going for the academics mostly...well she would work the Science and Math at her level at home. Latin does appeal to me and their literature as well but they are about to change it in Challenge 1 where it is more like Challenge B using the writing they start in Challenge B. 2 campuses here are piloting the new Challenge 1 next year. Also we do other outside classes that our lecture style that my dd12 just aged into their high school classes. Her teacher is constantly telling me how dd12 is engaged and proactive in the discussions in class. It is a mythology class and she is taking a military history class and doing excellent in the discussions in class. The teacher has pointed it out so much that it must not be the norm for the 7th grade students moving up into the classes. dd13 is the same way. I think personally that CC is so much about memorization and not following up in the younger years that most students do need those years in Challenge A and B to get used to the sudden change in the way the class is ran and what is expected much the same way that public school students are prepped for the changes in middle and high school. If a student is used to exploring topics and arguing their points validly or just discussing intelligently material with peers, then they are not going to need that time to adjust to those changes since they have not been in the CC program doing it the other way for so long. I also did not see where CC was going to be where we couldn't do our own thing outside of it and add in more. The history especially seemed lacking, but maybe I haven't gotten to see enough. We go to a different campus on Tuesday for dd to sit in with the Challenge B kids who are going into Challenge 1.

The age thing has put me off a bit. I actually get the college they work dual credit with having age requirements, but not everyone doing CC will want to do their dual enrollment program. The age thing puts me off b/c my kids didn't start school early and haven't been skipped ahead. I keep getting the phrase but you homeschool you can say any grade. Well my dd met the cutoff where we lived and went to public school until 3rd grade. She just so happens to have a summer birthday and wasn't red-shirted so yes she is a year younger than most kids in our heavily red-shirted state for her grade. I like being able to work where my kid is at and having a "school" say sorry they have to be 14 by September 30 to go into Challenge 1 when they are already working through Saxon Algebra 1 and Apologia Physical Science makes zero sense. I do think it is a school mentality overall and has heavy administrative guidelines. I personally think it was directors and tutors that requested the age mandate. I heard over and over how Challenge 1-4 was not 9-12 grade that it was meant to place the kid where they were at, but my dd13 isn't being placed where she is at...she will have to repeat Algebra and Physical Science in Challenge 1 if we do it. It has put me off of it a bit. Here it seems to be much more common to have more kids in Challenge 1 that are sophomores or higher in reality.

Are you currently homeschooling? When did you last homeschool? Things change over time and lots of things about school and homeschooling have changed and are changing even more now. I think the advice to tell a school deal with it is just rude. I also hope when my kids are graduated that I move on from homeschool boards. By the way, public schools do not accept the CAT as they feel it does not give accurate scores reflecting the current standards with the CAT test that is available to homeschoolers at the present time. Most will only accept the IOWA tests as a standard outside of their individual state assessments and placements. :)

Honestly, I thought about it for the classroom feel and a classic model somewhat and b/c my child wants that classroom feel. However, when we visited the age thing came up over and over again and a lot of it was b/c the kids in challenge 1 were not actually 9th graders. They push everyone to start at Challenge A even if you have done the material using the same materials. In fact, they pushed Challenge B for next year for us even though dd is already doing Physical Science and Algebra 1 using the same materials they use for Challenge 1 at home right now. So the challenge 1 class we visited had kids that were 15, mainly 16, and even an 18 yr old. So yes my dd13 did seem young to all of them, but she was ready for the discussion. The tutor was fine and I knew her from another group, but when I actually told her my child's age she said she could tell she was less mature than the other students. I thought hmmm...up until 2 seconds ago when I said her age you were fine and she was having a great day (had been there since 9 am and it was 3 pm). Then when I mention well how old are the other kids in the room it comes out everyone should be sophomores, juniors, and seniors. Well that isn't a fair comparison is it? Anyway, we haven't ruled out cc b/c there just really isn't a lot of academic co-ops in our area that would really give stimulating dialect that my dd needs at this point. There also isn't anywhere else that I could drop her off and not have to enroll the other 3 kids. There also isn't anywhere else where I do not have to volunteer to teach a class and help in a class. So while I am not sold on all of it and we did not have a perfect visit to cc, it would fit the bill for some of our needs and I just don't see us finding an alternative elsewhere. So we are going to visit another campus next week and see if all cc campuses are the same. Personally, I would rather save my money but I can see the appeal to an oldest child of 4 that is looking for that "school" feel without going back to school.

For Challenge 1 it is $1175 not including Registration $120 Facility Fee-varies by campus, and supply fee. Plus you still have to buy all the books. You pay it up front by the semester and no refunds if it doesn't work for you. Pay 1/2 in July and 1/2 in January. I seriously thought about it if I could sub out the math and science and put dd's where they placed for those while doing the Lit and other courses at Challenge 1. Only to find out they put an age cap and the campuses around here talk maturity a lot. Well the Challenge 1 class dd sat in on only had 2 true freshman. There were kids 18 in there??? So maybe I am just confused and don't get it, but I thought Challenge 1-4 was 9th-12th grade? All I kept hearing is CC is so full, but I didn't see it while I was there. At least what they get during the day of tutoring that costs so much. They even tried to talk me into starting at Challenge A with dd13 b/c of her age and maturity when she already has high school credits from our charter school??? She has actually already read quite a lot of the literature in Challenge 1 and the only new things would be the CC exclusive items. I also heard you get accountability with it, but with no grading... They won't be grading the semester assessments now either. They are going to blue book assessments and parents give all grades. The tutor may not know the answers and it is really just review days for science and math from what you already did at home during the week. I don't see any accountability there. Paying a huge sum for someone to look and ask my kid if they did the assignments? That isn't accountability. I thought it was more a tutor that helped and guided the students on one day and then the assignments were given for the next week. It is the opposite. They are actually supposed to have the 1st week's assignments completed and the teacher goes over 5 days of work in one hour for each subject during the meeting day. I only stayed for the Latin, Physical Science, and Algebra 1 classes which were the morning classes. dd sat in on the afternoon classes without me and I picked her up at 3. Debate was a part of the 2nd half of the day and I am assuming logic and economics? I really don't know.

I am sorry but you don't just pick up Algebra through Calculus the year you tutor well enough to help students. I can't imagine picking up Biology, Chemistry, and Physics alongside students either. That is a lot to pay for a day with a tutor that is learning alongside my child. I mean I can pay for a "real" tutor with a degree in maths to help with Algebra for less than this cost. The Dive Cd's for Saxon are so much better than the confusing wrong Algebra I saw the other day. I mean I had to physically work the problem for the class on the board. The class wasn't talking much...just blank stares and the one kid who was proficient in Algebra correcting the teacher the whole hour. The Latin I sat in had me shaking my head as well. There was several times the tutor had the student try their hand b/c she wasn't sure of the pronunciation. I let a few people know we were checking it out and I have been asked a lot what we thought. My daughter would have signed up on the spot, but it would have been to hang out with the kids not for the academics. We do a co-op already and it is mainly for social interaction but I thought CC gave you a "tutor" that was skilled in the subjects and well versed in them. I had no idea their training was on how cc marketing works. I just didn't see where it was that full especially in history. It seems like history is all debate? The literature is not any more than we do now at home and the math and science is behind where she will be next year. I am glad I saw this thread b/c it really gave me a lot to ponder, but the whole idea that I am paying tuition to someone who is learning beside my high school student seems ludicrous. Life long learning is not the same as trying to dust off cobwebs from your own high school education to get paid to tutor other people's kids once a week. I am sorry but it just seems like they sell it totally different than the reality. I mean if it is really you are doing all the work and the kids go 1 day a week and the tutor may not have the answers...then are you paying $1175 for a guide book to teach your child b/c the books don't even come with the tuition and the tutor is not really a "tutor" in the sense that I would use the word tutor. A tutor is someone knowledgeable in the subject that is helping your child to succeed in a course. CC does not sound like tutor is the right word they should be using.