I asked my brother who is an air traffic controller about this. (He does not have any military background, so I don't have any info about that aspect of it.) He said that the requirements have been changing over time, but they currently are: have three years of progressively responsible work experience, or a bachelor's degree, or a combination of post-secondary education and work experience that totals three years. (I should have clarified with him, but I think he means that these are the requirements in order to qualify to enter the FAA training program in Oklahoma, which I believe everyone needs to do prior to hiring regardless of education. Again, I have no idea how that may differ though if your son goes through the military.) He said that Stuckmic.com is the website for people who want to become controllers, so that would be a good website to check out for up to date info. He suggested NOT getting a degree in air traffic control and that, if your son really wants to get a bachelor's, it really doesn't matter what it is in; choose something useful. Otherwise, there are so many different qualifications (health and other) that are needed along the way, and if he doesn't pass something, then he's stuck with a degree in air traffic control. Also, that way he has back up if he doesn't get hired because it's quite difficult to get hired currently. Applications only open up once a year, and one of my brother's new coworkers applied for six years before finally getting hired this year. Going back to what degree to get, my brother has several friends who went to UND Grand Forks and majored in business management with emphasis in aviation; several of them minored in air traffic control. My brother also suggests, before proceeding with plans to become an air traffic controller, go ahead and get a second class airman medical exam. He personally knows people who were offered jobs but then failed the medical tests, including two people who failed because it was discovered they were color blind, which is an automatic disqualification. (It's sort of surprising that they didn't know this when they were younger.) It's interesting to know that the majority of air traffic controllers do not work at airports in control towers. (Maybe you already know this, but I had no idea until I actually knew an air traffic controller!) The vast majority are working in control centers near major cities where the controllers are working behind computers, each controller responsible for a specific section of the U.S. I've never seen the building my brother works in, but from what he's described, it's just an average looking building in an industrial park or similar area. The sector he's in charge of isn't necessarily in the same state he's located in. As planes pass through his assigned sector, he's responsible for communication with the pilots and then when they leave his sector, they get passed off to another controller. He makes a very good living, but it is tough hours, as the controllers are constantly working different hours of the day. For example, he may work third shift hours one night, then second shift hours the next day, first shift hours another day, etc. I was always puzzled why this is so until he explained that all controllers need to be extremely proficient with their skills and that if they all worked consistent shifts, the third shift controllers wouldn't have nearly the level of practice/experience as those who work first shift because of the heavier air traffic during the day. He seems tired all the time because of this, but overall, I get the impression he likes his job a lot! Hope some of this is helpful!

I should have updated this awhile back. Anyways, like I mentioned in my original post, only one of five schools requested the IRS Verification of Non-Filing Letter, so I don't think it's a very common thing for a dependent student. It seems like most of the colleges only request this from independent students. In the end, it took 4 full weeks to receive the letter from the IRS. However, ds never ended up needing to submit it because after waiting 2 weeks for the letter, I called the financial aid office of the school and expressed my concern that the processing of his financial aid award was being held up because of this letter and that I had no idea when it would arrive. The response I got was that I didn't need to be concerned because the school no longer required this letter but just hadn't changed their website and verification worksheet. We were able to submit his verification documents without it. So once the letter arrived, it wasn't even needed. So, for those of you who have high school juniors and are concerned about needing this, I don't think you need to be too worried about it. I personally would not file a tax return for ds if he didn't need to just to make sure that he wasn't a non-filer. In future years, I would probably just go ahead and request the verification of non-filing letter as soon as it's allowed (I think in August or September but not positive) to have on hand just in case it's requested. It's easier to request the letter than it is to file a tax return. And now I know that it really will arrive, but it takes longer than 5-10 business days.

Heather, I am so sorry to hear about the disappointment your family is experiencing. We are in WI as well and thought I'd suggest UW-Platteville as a school to consider. I'm sorry I didn't read through enough of your posts to find out what your son wants to study, but if it's engineering, they are HIGHLY respected for engineering in Wisconsin and the surrounding region. They're also well known for criminal justice and offer many other majors as well. My son will be an engineering major next year, and multiple professional engineers have urged him to attend Platteville rather than Madison claiming that the practical/hands-on engineering education emphasized at Platteville is more desirable to employers than the primarily theory-based engineering education at Madison, and the students also have smaller classes and get more personal attention. Unless additional scholarships come through at any of the other schools he's considering, this is where he'll be attending and the price is much more affordable than most 4-year schools. They're the least expensive UW school with the exception of the 2 year UW colleges. $7,543 tuition and fees per year and then about $7000 per year room/board depending on which dorm and meal plan is chosen. There are no additional costs for textbooks either since they have a textbook rental system that is already included in the fees, so that's an additional savings! It's a lovely campus in a small town, a mid-sized school of just over 8000 students, and though there certainly aren't all the activities and culture available in a big city like Madison or Milwaukee, there are plenty of extracurriculars and outdoor activities to be had. It's also only 20 minutes away from Dubuque, Iowa, so it's not too far from a big city. We've visited the campus twice and it has felt like a good fit. (For comparison's sake, my son also loves Marquette, since I see that's another one of your son's choices. So even though my son likes the big city atmosphere of Marquette, he finds the small town feel of Platteville equally appealing but in a different way.) One other thing we've been considering is the cost of housing if/when ds decides not to stay in the dorms. We have a friend who has a child attending Madison and a child attending Platteville, and the child attending Madison pays double for rent compared to what the child in Platteville pays. The housing costs are very different in the two cities Otherwise, we know of top-notch students who are attending the 2 year UW Colleges and then transferring to save money. Tuition/fees are only roughly $5000 a year and they have a number of programs to make sure there is a seamless transition from the 2 year to the 4 year school. Several of them offer the introductory engineering courses as well. My son is bound and determined to go away to college but I do think it would make a great deal of financial sense to go this route considering our state is blessed to have such a great community college system with many transfer agreements in place with other schools. I'll be praying you find some workable options!

Yes, it's been 10 business days. We faxed the request in early in the morning on the 12th. I know it's just been barely 10 days, so I'm not too concerned yet. (I think I was focusing more on the "5" of that "5-10 business days" :laugh: which I probably shouldn't do, especially considering the state of the government right now). Arch at Home, that's good to know it took you three weeks to receive it. Hoping it comes this week!

Has anyone else gone through the process of requesting this because their child was selected for FAFSA verification and needed to provide this with the rest of the requested documents? If so, how long did it take to get it after requesting it? Everyday I'm praying it will arrive in the mail but so far, no such luck! DS applied to and was accepted to 5 universities. Three of them requested verification materials in November/December, we promptly submitted the materials, they were processed with no problems, and we got the financial aid award letters. Each school just needed the worksheet for their specific university filled out and copies of W-2s. We didn't have to get anything from the IRS for these because we (the parents) had used the online data retriever for our tax return and DS didn't need to file in 2016. A little over two weeks ago, we got the verification request from one of the other schools (the one ds will most likely attend due to cost) and, besides the standard materials stated above, they requested an IRS Verification of Non-Filing Letter stating that yes, it is true that ds didn't file a 2016 tax return. It appears that this is a new requirement this year at other schools because when I looked at the verification worksheet for the fifth university ds is considering (and the one school where they don't request verification unless the student actually enrolls), they also request this letter and state it is a new requirement for 2018-2019. Anyways, the instructions from the IRS stated that it takes 5 -10 days to receive the letter. 10 days has now passed this past Friday and I'm sitting here wondering when it will come so we can get an award letter from this school (and they also consider need for scholarships, and applications were due a month ago, so I'm sure decisions are being made- -- sure hope this doesn't affect scholarship decisions). After faxing it in, there's really no way of knowing if it was actually received and I can't find a phone number for this specific IRS office to call and check or anything. Anyone else requested one of these lately? I'm concerned that all the uncertainty with the federal gov't. and talk of shutdowns, etc. will affect the timeline as well. This is our oldest and I've been trying so hard to make sure we do everything correctly, on time, submitting documents as soon as possible, etc. but this one has me concerned. I sure wish we had known we were going to need this so I could have requested it a long time ago, but I had no clue since the other three universities never asked for it.

What do you all think is the best way to submit the verification information to colleges? The letters requesting the verification worksheet and W-2s have just started rolling in, and though I have all the information ready, I've been unsure of the most secure way to submit it. I find it a bit surprising that they suggest e-mail. I really don't feel comfortable sending copies of my husband's, my son's, and my W-2s via e-mail since they contain all of our personal information, including SSN. I haven't figured out how to use our all-in-one printer as a fax machine, so I guess that leaves regular mail, though of course, the security of that is never guaranteed either! Should I send it with a signature required when the college receives it so I know they got it? I can't remember ever mailing something before that has so much identifying personal information on it. Opinions on this are much appreciated! Thanks!

My question is about this below: "If the student has taken courses from a distance learning program, traditional secondary school, or institution of higher education, please list the course title and content, sponsoring institution, instruction setting and schedule, and frequency of interactions with instructors and fellow students (once per day, week, etc.). In addition, if the student has taken any standardized testing other than those listed on page 2 of the Common Application, please also describe below." Would you include Pennsylvania Homeschoolers or Derek Owens classes in this or not? They're not "institutions" so I'm leaning towards no, but just wanted to double check with you experienced ladies! My son has also taken classes at our local high school and a college, so I provided the information for those. On the transcript, I indicate with acronyms which courses were taken at the high school, the college, PA Homeschoolers, and Derek Owens. So I don't know if it would look weird to not include them in this Common App box since I specifically marked them on the transcript as outside providers, even though there's a difference between actual schools and a course provider. Thoughts? Or should I not be marking the course providers on the transcript and just including them in the course descriptions? Also, did you put PSAT and AP scores in this area? DS is hoping we can get this all submitted yet tonight for an EA deadline!! AAghh!!

Thanks for all the input regarding my question below about whether or not to send in school profile/school counselor info. even to schools that just request a transcript but are open to receiving more.Sounds like I should send the whole shebang to them all! That's what I was thinking, but I'm so afraid of screwing up! I don't want them to get irritated by too much information. So, I'm happy to hear that shouldn't be an issue. One more question that I wanted to make sure is seen, so I hope it's okay I started a new thread: I am thinking it would not be acceptable, however, to include a letter of recommendation written by a teacher he's had for four years for classes that directly relate to his major, correct? It should only be the materials that I write? (By the way, the college said it's acceptable to e-mail his homeschool transcript, so the whole packet will be e-mailed. I'd have to scan the letter in and include it with the documents, which I don't know if that's even very acceptable.)This college does not have required nor optional letters of recommendation that are submitted by applicants. Rather, they are allowed one letter of recommendation if applying for one of their top scholarships. My son has a different letter of recommendation for that. Students who go to school and have a guidance counselor can elect to have that person fill out a form provided by the college with stats and a few lines to make comments about the student's qualifications and how successful they predict the student will be in college. My counselor letter, however, would be taking the place of that. So even though admissions said that I can submit "anything I feel is necessary for his application," I'm not sure if it's pushing it to include an outside letter of recommendation. This letter clearly describes his strength in the skills that will make him successful in his future major. The letter of recommendation he's submitting for the scholarship, on the other hand, is more focused on his leadership skills, which is the focus of the scholarship. I've debated e-mailing the admissions dept. again and asking if sending in the recommendation letter for consideration for admissions would be okay, but I don't want to be pesty since I've asked a couple questions already. Thanks for any suggestions!

Thanks for all the input! Sounds like I should send the whole shebang to them all! That's what I was thinking, but I'm so afraid of screwing up! I don't want them to get irritated by too much information. So, I'm happy to hear that shouldn't be an issue. I am thinking it would not be acceptable, however, to include a letter of recommendation written by a teacher he's had for four years for classes that directly relate to his major, correct? It should only be the materials that I write? (By the way, the college said it's acceptable to e-mail his homeschool transcript, so the whole packet will be e-mailed. I'd have to scan the letter in and include it with the documents, which I don't know if that's even very acceptable.)This college does not have required nor optional letters of recommendation that are submitted by applicants. Rather, they are allowed one letter of recommendation if applying for one of their top scholarships. My son has a different letter of recommendation for that. Students who go to school and have a guidance counselor can elect to have that person fill out a form provided by the college with stats and a few lines to make comments about the student's qualifications and how successful they predict the student will be in college. My counselor letter, however, would be taking the place of that. So even though admissions said that I can submit "anything I feel is necessary for his application," I'm not sure if it's pushing it to include an outside letter of recommendation. This letter clearly describes his strength in the skills that will make him successful in his future major. The letter of recommendation he's submitting for the scholarship, on the other hand, is more focused on his leadership skills, which is the focus of the scholarship. I've debated e-mailing the admissions dept. again and asking if sending in the recommendation letter for consideration for admissions would be okay, but I don't want to be pesty since I've asked a couple questions already. Thanks for any suggestions!

Quick question: Would you recommend sending the school profile and counselor letter to colleges that don't require it (not Common App schools) but are open to receiving anything that a homeschool parent wants to submit with the transcript? I keep changing my mind about it. IThe two schools in question are colleges that focus primarily on technology/engineering and only request a transcript and SAT or ACT scores. One of them is the school that ds would prefer to go to out of all the schools on his list. Both are known to be homeschool-friendly, and I'm not concerned that he won't be accepted, but rather, it's just a matter of making him as desirable as possible for more merit aid than he already automatically qualifies for. Part of me thinks, yes, I should give them as much info. as possible to help them see who he is as a student and the rigors of our homeschool. It seems as if everything I've read on different websites advocates sending in as much information and support as you possibly can. However, part of me thinks like it may seem as if I'm trying too hard to convince them that he's a great kid/student by giving them more information than they really need, particularly because they would receive a lot of writing from me but hardly anything from him since there are no essays involved in the applications. Besides our homeschool, he also has a DE transcript and a transcript from our local high school where he's taken engineering and math courses every year. So, they'll see that his academic achievement is consistent across the board. Thoughts??

Thanks for all the replies! I think I'll just put the composite on his transcript or not at all. We'll still need to decide whether or not to send in one more test date to some of the schools. I was a bit confused about why he would need to delete the sophomore score, though, since he's not applying to any schools that state they require all scores to be sent in. Wouldn't that be the only circumstances in which a test would need to be deleted?

I should have also mention that, based on the applications, admissions requirements on the website, e-mail contacts with admissions regarding questions, etc. the various schools all have different "feels" to them that are having me consider sending just the composite with the highest math score to some and both junior and senior year test dates to others. For example, two of them are specifically engineering schools in which the applications are very cut and dried, no recommendations needed, no essays (except for scholarships), a statement that they only use the ACT scores from a single test date, and they specifically state that they look at the math subscore. For those schools, I'm leaning towards only using the junior year test date that had the highest science/math scores. However, the other schools are large universities that have a wide variety of majors. One specifically says that, while they only use the composite date from a single test date as the "official" test date, they will look holistically at scoring history. The other says that they strongly recommend students take the writing test once. Others don't say much of anything other than they require an ACT score to be considered for admission. For these, I'm considering sending in (and including on the transcript) both junior and senior year scores. I don't know if that's okay or not, though. Is it okay to include only one set of scores on the transcript for some schools but then add the other scores on there and have them sent to other schools? Thanks for any input!

Ok, so I'm understanding that only scores that are being officially sent in should be on the transcript. Now ds and I need to decide if we should have the second set officially sent in (same composite, just slightly different subscores). He already sent in one application that only included his junior year test date, so I think we're going to have to leave well enough alone on that one. However, he hasn't sent in any other applications yet. Regentrude, I was under the impression that we only had to submit the ACT score(s) that we wished unless a school specifically stated in their policy that they require all scores to be reported. Drats, am I assuming wrong? Now I'm concerned!

First off, I have learned so much from reading this forum as I get all the documents ready for my oldest child's college applications. Thanks so much for all of the wisdom! My question is in regards to which ACT scores to put on his transcript. He took the ACT three times, once as a sophomore with a good score but not as good as the other two times. That score will not be on his transcript nor sent to colleges. The second time at the end of junior year, he got an excellent composite score for the schools he's applying to, though his writing score was very low. He and I were both surprised as he is a strong writer and did excellent in a dual-enrollment college writing class too. In a conversation with him, it seems as if he had a hard time connecting with the topic and couldn't think of much to write about it, so I'm guessing the short length of it played a big role. None of the schools require the writing portion of the ACT, though one (not his first choice) "strongly recommends" it. In hindsight, I wish he had just not taken the writing portion at all. He took the ACT one more time at the beginning of senior year, though I couldn't convince him to take the writing portion again as much as I would have liked him to. He also had an obligation in the early afternoon that would have made it difficult for him to be at the testing location that long. He got the same composite; however, the composite scores were all just a little different though still strong. His math and science scores were a couple points higher, however, on the junior year test, and since he is majoring in engineering, we have only requested that that test date be sent to colleges (the one with the low writing score). Do you think that, when putting his ACT score on his transcript, I need to include his writing score? I know that colleges receive it since it's sent with the composite, but because most of the schools don't require nor recommend it, I'd prefer not to make it so obvious. Is that okay or would that look strange to not have it on there? Also, so far we haven't sent the second set of scores to colleges because his math/science went down a couple points. However, i'm thinking I'd like to put it on his transcript because he had a nearly perfect English score and perhaps that would help to show that he is strong in language arts even though he had such a low writing score. Can I put the scores on the transcript, though, without also having them officially sent? Or doesn't it hold any weight without the official scores also being sent? We could have them officially sent as well, just not sure if it matters. I'm also a bit afraid it will "look bad" that he didn't take the writing test again. By the way, none of the schools superscore, though one says that they will look holistically at his testing history. Thank you for any suggestions you may have! I will be so incredibly glad when this season is over (as will my younger 6 kids so mom isn't sitting at a computer all the time!)

DS had the opposite situation after filling out the FAFSa this past week. The Pell Grant he qualified for was approx. half of what he was expecting based on the FAFSA 4Caster website. According to the chart posted above, again, it seems much lower than it should. Has anyone else had this happen? I'm so concerned there's a mistake somewhere, but I don't know what it would be. I must say that I don't really like how, once you use the IRS Data Retrieval tool, you can't see what the numbers are. I guess we'll have to go back and look at our tax return.

Cool! Has anyone seen them at the actual stores or are they only available online?

I really have hesitated from saying anything, but even more than the Paypal issue, I am realizing how a person can have split personalities on the web. I've been a member of the HOD board for a couple years and have frequently seen your posts there. HOD is such a gentle, supportive board and I truly have a hard time believing that someone from that board would feel comfortable posting in such a different way elsewhere on the web. I understand that your feel strongly about this issue, but still, what we write on the web and how we react to people in terms of sarcasm and word choice is permanent. I am editing this on 9/2 to add that I apologize for posting my above comments. It was a poor choice in judgment for me and I apologize, Rebecca, for my inappropriate post. I don't know if you will ever even see this comment, but I did not want to post a new reply to the thread which will then, yet again, boost this thread to the top of the boards. I believe it's time for this thread to be over and don't want to help perpetuate it. I also need to clarify that, contrary to Rebecca's comments below, I absolutely did not try to post a link to this thread on the HOD board and never considered doing that. I am quite concerned about her belief that I did this because I'm not sure where she got the idea that I did. I went to the HOD boards and saw that recently the administrators had removed a thread for rule violations, but it was not a thread that I had started or participated in. So I'm guessing that Rebecca saw that a thread had been removed for rule violations and assumed it was me. Also, a poster comments below that some people may feel so convicted about this issue that they will report people to Paypal. While I believe in choosing "purchase" and started this thread because I was feeling frustrated at the time, this truly is not a huge deal for me in life (in fact it's quite low on my list of priorities) and I have way too many more important things in life that need to be done to spend my time doing volunteer work for Paypal to help them enforce their policies.

Also, I just wanted to mention that this is a great site to figure out the fees. http://www.rolbe.com/paypal.htm BTW, I have had transactions where the seller wanted me to send a check in order to avoid Paypal fees, and I've volunteered to just pay the fees because it usually comes out to hardly anything extra when you think about the stamp. I much prefer a situation in which I'm offering to pay the fees rather than having someone ask me to cover the fees. I'd feel really uncomfortable myself asking someone to pay for the fees if they're purchasing from me. I really don't understand what the fuss is about with just keeping in mind the fees when setting the original price. I guess I have the attitude that if a curriculum item is just sitting around and I have no use for it, then I'd love to see it get used by someone really wants it and I'll get some $ out of the deal, and the 50 cents or dollar less that I get for it is not going to make or break me. If you have a bunch of very low-priced items, then this wouldn't work for you but some people will request that you buy $5 minimum of items or something like that, which makes sense.

Wow, I had no idea that this thread would fill so many pages so quickly! I'm glad to see that there are so many of you who also believe in sticking to the guidelines and are uncomfortable with lying about it being personal. I was really starting to feel down that every purchase I've tried to make lately, I've been asked to send it as a personal payment. I guess there still are some honest homeschool moms out there! I've got to admit, I'm baffled by how some people feel that the rule can be interpreted in different ways. The user agreement clearly states that if goods are being sold/exchanged, then it is NOT a personal purchase. What is there to interpret?:glare:

Hi everyone, I don't want to come across as being on a "high horse", but I am really dismayed lately at a pattern I am finding when trying to purchase used homeschool materials. In the past week, every single homeschool purchase I've tried to make from this board and a couple others ends up with the mom giving me directions to send the payment as "personal" rather than as a "purchase" in order to avoid the new Paypal fees. In one case, the seller truly didn't seem to know that "purchase" had to be selected even though she's not a business or selling via eBay. Once I sent her the section of the User Agreement that explains it, she was fine with me sending it as a purchase. However, others really don't seem to care and I end up not being able to buy things that I really wanted. I will not lie and send it as a personal payment. What's ironic is that many of the curriculum items being sold are Christian items, even items intended to help cultivate Christian character in our children. I purchase other types of used items on other boards for my children that aren't homeschooling, and I've never been asked to send it as a personal payment. The fees have been discussed on those boards and the general concensus is to not be dishonest for various reasons. ( It's wrong to say it's not for a purchase, it's risky for the buyer because they lose all buyer protection when it's sent as a personal payment, and people don't want to risk losing their ability to accept personal payments (when it really is) is a personal payment, which is what can happen if Paypal notices you're receiving many personal payments and finds out they're for purchases.) I guess I'm thinking that homeschool moms would be the "honest ones" and these other boards would be the ones pushing for the dishonesty, yet I'm finding it's the other way around and it's very disheartening. Anyways, I guess I just had to vent that I'm finding it so difficult to buy used curriculum right now without having to lie to do it. I sell items too, but I, and many others, feel that the Paypal fees now are part of doing business and you just have to keep that in mind when setting your prices. I know it was wonderful when Paypal was free, but I still feel the convenience is worth it and we are saving the cost of the stamp to send a check or money order. Here's the User Agreement from the Paypal website that explains the difference: 4.2 Receiving Payments for Commercial Transactions and Personal Transactions. Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial transaction or a personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves buying and selling goods or services, and payments received when you send a “request money†using PayPal. A personal transaction involves sending money to and receiving money from friends and family without making a purchase. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a personal payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept personal payments.

I don't think it's gross at all! Wool is naturally antibacterial, so it's very difficult to absorb odor. Besides, think of how often we wear footwear worn by others when we rent skates, ski boots, bowling shoes, etc.

Hi! I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but you can download a free demo at http://www.thequartermile.com/. Otherwise, you can get a free demo CD from the company (there must be a link on their website somewhere since I ordered one from them awhile back), and it also comes with a booklet that lists all the topics and which CDs those topics are available on. It is very detailed about the differences between the different bundles. The demo, though it contains limited topics, lets your kids play the actual games so that they can see what it's like and you can see whether it's something they'd enjoy. For the record, my kids love QMM and I plan on ordering the newest version of it in the next couple of weeks. Just be aware that most of the used copies being sold are not the newest version, which isn't an issue unless you use Vista as your operating system. Our library has QMM (so you may want to check your library first), however, since we got our new computer we're not able to use it because it won't run on Vista. So I need to buy the newest version that will run on Vista. HTH, Kristin

Yes and no. My husband is a teacher and also teaches summer school, so he just finished that up a couple days ago. Now we have a few weeks to spend together as a family before school starts up. So I don't look forward to him having to go back and I enjoy all the free time our family has now. However, I do get excited about gearing up for the year. I just went to Walgreen's tonight and stocked up on their super-cheap school supplies! 9 cent posterboard, 19 cent packages of pens and pencils, etc. That was fun!

A Child's Story of America published by Christian Liberty Press is another option you may want to look into. It's written in a very interesting manner. A First Book in American History and Stories of Great Americans, both by Edward Eggleston, are other great options!

We used RS4K pre-level Chemistry this past year, and though my 3rd grader is an excellent reader and very bright, I can't imagine him doing it independently. There are just so many brand-new concepts to discuss. I suppose he could have followed the directions for the experiments on his own but I don't think he would have gotten nearly as much out of them as he did doing them as a family. While ds 9 was the only one who did all the writing, etc., we all loved doing them together, including my 6 and 4 year old.