One idea if you're considering trying out TOG is just to buy a unit. That way you're not in over your head financially and it helps you to stay focused on that unit's topic. Just a thought.

My son is taking lessons from a private instructor for drums. He practices roughly 1/2 hour each day. He also plays each Sunday at our church with our praise band as the only drummer. They practice for roughly two hours one night per week. Could he get some type of high school credit for this?

Absolutely agree. We're stopping TOG for now as I'm having a new baby and the library book research and putting things on hold and planning are not how I want to spend her first year with us. That said, TOG is an awesome program, it's just very mom intensive if you don't have tons of money to spend on buying books. Blessings on your new baby, enjoy this time!

Here are some titles I have... from generations of virtue site - Beautifully Made - a three book series on explaining the changes of adolescence site: http://www.generationsofvirtue.org/product_info.php?cPath=23_26&products_id=210&osCsid=623a746fa826c01a7aaa392e4de67c42 Your Girl by Vicki Courtney - a general book about raising girls http://www.amazon.com/Your-Girl-Raising-Daughter-Ungodly/dp/0805430539 and two written by Carolyn Mahaney - she has three daughters and wrote a great (IMHO) book on Titus 2 called Feminine Appeal - covers loving your husband, children, loving God, etc. and her book spcifically about raising daughters - Girl Talk http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/102-4387586-8895308?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=carolyn+mahaney She also has a blog although I find that more random in it's postings than just on raising girls - it covers lots of topics but you may find somethings to help there We're having a mothers raising daughters night at our church next week - and I've found some great christian resources if you're really interested - I can give you some free teaching links to listen to... Stephanie

I never heard that about the pairs - thanks for posting it. Maybe you should write something for those of us with less smarts in that area, I'm mean experience :)

I am so surprised and embarrassed by some of the comments made here about churches. I guess I'm just very blessed to be in our fellowship! I can't imagine people talking to others the way you all have reported here. I'm sorry and am upset at the inability of people to show the love of Christ. Sounds like you need to keep looking for a church that's focused on the Word and teaching it faithfully to it's membership.

I'd rather not have that same ole' same ole' roast chicken again and I don't have time to do anything that requires me cooking then shaving meat off the bone. I'm preg and still have nausea so nothing! with (gag) cream of @#$%@# soup in it. Thanks. thanks Stephanie ps - I know I asked for last minute help with pot roast the other night, I'm sure you all are saying get a meal plan for heaven's sake - I have one but we have an abundance of meat this week I needed to cook and didn't plan for plus I just can't think ahead this week - must be a hormonal issue. Everything's muddy and soo much work - waaah.

I have physical science for sale - we're just finishing it and moving to biology. email me at fivehalfs @ hotmail dot com great timing Stephanie

Yeah :D Sandra, I was hoping someone who had experience with TOG would post. I'm thrilled to hear it's working well. Thank you so much for your reply. We can't wait to implement SL into our schoolday - we're both eager for a change. Have a great day and thanks again for taking time to post that. Stephanie

Need to use it for dinner tonight. Looked online but no help. Thanks in advance Stephanie

Did you credit this as World History? I am planning on giving 1 cr World History (adding in Spielvogel Human Odyssey readings) 1 cr Bible or Church History and 1 cr literature - look about right to you? Thanks for your reply. One more question, did this take you all year or did you finish earlier - the history looks easier than the lit. Stephanie

Thank you Mandy for replying. I have a mentor - inhis dad so we should be good there. As for the writing, IEW worked really well for us so we'll just add in SL writing assignments after we finish their courses. It's a relief to know we have that to fall back on if SL isn't "enough" instruction. I appreciate your insight into the literary terms, we may have something on our shelves that can help if need be. Have a great day. Stephanie

Hi all, we went from TOG to Sonlight 200. Just pushed the order button last night with ds and dh's glowing approval. Now, of course! I'm having doubts I did the right thing. I'm a bit worried about the "helps" available with SL upper core. How's the writing instruction - will we be ok with IEW TWSS discs in conjunction with SL assignments? What about the literature instruction? Will I need to supplement that? I hope not! Are there more to the teacher's notes - discussion info - than what's available on the core 200 sample? I read that in the upper core the notes are extensive but on the two samples I looked at it seemed there were just discussion questions. I need a less teacher intensive program and something with high interest reading for this ds now. I can't go back anyway - we're having a baby, I'm burnt out on TOG and ds is super! excited that his literature isn't going to be tied to his history. I also wonder if any of you have had success using SL 200 with a 13 year old? He's an awesome reader - we just read Gilgamesh and he understood that fine and I'm trying to ignore the comments in the catalog of the dangers of using SL for the 1st time with a 13 yr old. We've been reading those same books for years and I THINK he can handle it. We just tried WTM for one day last week and between the lost look of "what do I do" for history from him and going to the library (which I really want to cut back on!) I don't think that's going to work. He will SCREAM if we go back to Tapestry, lol. His favorite subject is bible and he's very mature "spiritually" speaking and extremely interested right now in missions and evangelism. I think it will work I'd just love to hear from those that are using it. Thanks. Stephanie ps - don't read back through my previous posts, we've been curricula jumping lately and I'll seem very pschitophrenic to you all:eek:

Luanne, I think if you do a search of the K-8 boards for posts by karenciavo you'll find a bunch of information she did on these two programs. It may prove helpful to you in your search. Stephanie

Are you using this with your high schooler or yourself? For yourself - use the Well Educated Mind going through whatever her list is in the book. BUT, for the high school plan - my thought was that we follow the list in The Well Trained Mind and use the Well Educated Mind to discuss them. Stephanie

Like another poster I didn't have baskets in any bedrooms - until we utiilized a bedroom upstairs. Sadly, that's the one person's laundry that doesn't get done regularly enough and I attribute it all to the evil basket:mad: We have a very small laundry space and the only available place for a basket in there is on top of the washer. We have 5 people in our home and I'm rarely stuck under a mountain so this method seems to be working for us... we keep that one laundry basket on top of the washer. When it's full!!and not until then - I pull out the majority of a load - either white or darks (YES I SORT, I can't even imagine those ladies that don't, haha). I do a load DAILY. I have a buzzer set on my appliances that reminds me laundry's done! and time to transfer to the dryer or hang up outside. I don't ever pile my laundry to fold later - wrinkles. I think that's the worst thing we can do in terms of this chore because that pile turns into dirty, doesn't fit, needs sewn, throw away pile also. Occasionally we do end up with a bigger mountain than usual. I then steel myself to the fact it's a laundry day - and do the above process as many times as needed to empty that basket. This happens mostly on Mondays I've learned because I don't do laundry over the weekend except for sheets if needed. How do the clothes get there? We have a nightly clean up before anyone gets into their bed and they pick up their clothes in that process and take them to the basket. EVERY night. Hope these tips help - I used to hate! this chore and now it's not so bad. Oh yes, all of my children put their own laundry away. It stays in folded stacks on the dryer until any of us opens the door to the room. Then that person doles out the clothes in neatly folded stacks to be put away. When I have my 4th baby I'll be adding her laundry pile to my own to put away and this whole process may go right out the window. I can just see the small laundry room piled with clothes falling all over me - ok, back to reality. Stephanie ps My dh also loves starched shirts and I try to iron once a week for him - earns me brownie points:cool: Posting this made me realize what a big part of my daily life laundry is! I really think the key is doing a little bit every day. It can overtake you if you're not careful. Beware the baskets I say.

This all helps very much. We actually got a Gilgamesh version - Gilgamesh New English Version by Stephen Mitchell. He's asked me to keep reading and when I finished for the day took it from me and is reading about the battle with the bull! Looks like this TWTM idea may work for us after all. We'll see. Thanks again for your comments. Stephanie ps We're sticking with HO also!

wow you ladies are very fast! AND you make it sound so easy. I have spent the time since I posted re-reading TWTM and I can see there is actual work involved besides just reading and discussing. I also am getting a better idea of how the history is tied into the great book study. I'm just curious now that I have your attention, or had it. Did you all read Gilgamesh? Did your 9th grader understand it? I think my ds is awesome at literature but he and I are both having a hard time getting through what we are reading of the online version. I read in TWTM SWB says if they're having trouble, move on. Again just curious if any of your students actually read and understood this. My dad made me laugh today - he said - Gilgamesh - where's that?

Hey Cindy, were you considering SL Core 200? I was just looking it over and it looks pretty heavy theologically but parts of it - especially the bible and literature aspects look very interesting. Although I've never used SL myself I've read at the hs levels it's written to the students. Stephanie

I am seriously considering jumping off the curricula ship and trying my hand at WTM for high school. I have Human Odyssey by Spielvogel and Kingfisher's encyclopedia but I'm not sure HO is okay for high school (at least 9th grade anyway). That's the first question. Next one: what about the "work" of this plan? I'm not sure about what would constitute a credit's worth of work. Do you all randomly assign reports or papers or even quizzes or tests? I see in TWTM she asks students to keep a notebook on dates and important events. Is that all we'd have to do besides read and discuss as directed in TWTM? Please forgive the ignorance shown here - I am sure it's on page ___ of one of the books I have but it's all foggy at this point. Thanks for any help you can offer on how you do TWTM or TWEM and Spielvogel.

We're doing a mothers raising daughters night at our church. We're discussing mostly spiritual things such as discipling our daughters, building upon their gifts, setting limits, etc. You could concentrate on practical things if this isn't a christian group. How much time is enough...what resources have proven helpful in raising daughters...modesty guidelines...self esteem and friendship issues like gossip, etc. Plenty of ways to go with this one...

One thing not mentioned yet is the sheer number of books to buy/request/or borrow. This in itself is a big factor. Honestly if you're looking at doing a Sonlight level I'd stick with SL for the lower years if you're wanting something more than just SOTW. There's plenty of time for the big dog work of TOG later. Right now, don't rush it. I know there's the statement K to mom going around about TOG and how wonderful it is to teach yourself as you go. Doesn't sound like that's what you're looking for now. Remember what ps kids get in school regarding history and I'm sure you'll be relieved. I have TOG and we're doing it with 9th, 4th and 1st grade. The younger two could really do without it at this point knowing what they'll get next time around. You could just have the books in a basket for them to look at if you wanted to and they'd benefit from that, really. You're really just going for a vague familiarity at this young age and you can do that with just books. From your post, sounds like you shouldn't stress the decision, save TOG till later. Stephanie

Cindy, I bet you're doing better than you think at this! You're a great mom and the kids are going to totally benefit from that. After reading these boards for quite a few months now I realize I have compounded this super school in my head. A bit of everyone's shining accomplishments, ya know? My goals for our home are success scholastically but much more than that. With many children there are many distractions from what is truly important. Concentrate on those - seek ye first the Kingdom right and ALL these things will be added. Our spiritual emphasis fades into the background when I start concentrating on doing a "bang up" job educationally. Look at the long term - what you're learning over time instead of day to day. Hope these meager words help to encourage you - I've always admired your dedication to the Lord and your attempt to raise your children for HIM. With all of your church commitments also I'm sure the kids are gaining useful things from there also. I do know what you mean with juggling the different grades and needs of the children but He is more than faithful. No practical advice, just a friendly chat. Stephanie ps you should see my big ole' belly :eek:

BTDT. The only advice I can hope to give seeing as mine is almost 14 and we're not quite through this stage is what I've learned so far. Instruction is just as important as behavior correction - be sure you aren't just trying to fix the outward issue. For too long I concentrated only on how inconvenient the disrespect was and how it either embarrassed me or angered me. I have since learned that what is going on outwardly is reflecting what is going on inwardly. From what you've gone into sounds like your son is playing you :) big time. Of course he knows his behavior is wrong, but going into why it's not okay and having clear consquences for such episodes may help him to understand it from a new perspective. I also know that each instance of his disrespect is showing me there is something going on that we need to delve into - laziness, selfishness, anger, and even sometimes something as simple as being overtired or hormonal. One scary thing...it's sad to say but he's learned his behavior so much from the way I handle aggravation because we're together so much. I've gotten much better since I've become a christian and am learning to rely on God to grant me self control and patience. I know many parents don't agree but I think it's important to show the same respect to my kids that I demand. When this does not happen, my soon to be adult son really sees it and takes it to heart as what it really is - hypocrisy :( I'd just encourage you to keep on in your parental role of teaching him that his behavior has consequences and lauding the merits of treating people with respect. There's much more I'd love to go into because I've read so much about it from a christian perspective lately but this is enough of my thoughts for one day. Parenting is hard work - but it is so worth it. Keep at it. Stephanie

Just got back from the ultrasound today. I did NOT want to find out but everyone else in my family (the 4 of them) wanted to know. It didn't hurt the surprise one bit. I was totally surprised = cried and thanked God. It's a healthy baby and now it's time to SHOP :)