monalisa
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Posts posted by monalisa
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I'm looking for advice from anyone who has taught cursive to a first grader...
What program did you use? any advice?
I've been using HWT K book and now 1st grade book with my dd who is 6.5. Her writing is SOOOOO SLOOOOOW. Even math is painful (for me esp. )because of writing numbers and how long it takes her. She goes sl slow that she makes her writing worse. She is begging to do cursive and I wonder if the loops would be easier than all the straight up & down lines in HWT. Some of her print letters are more curved like cursive. She often holds her pencil in her right hand with a hook, kind of like you see lefties sometimes do. I have to constantly tell her to correct it. Her fine motor skills are fine other wise.
I've read all the articles that talk about how printing was introduced with sight reading in the 30s so I am not at all worried about abandoning print for now -- just wondering what a good cursive program would be. I've looked at Memoria's New American Cursive and A Reason for Handwriting. I do not like the HWT cursive that is straight up and down -- totally defeats the thing I'm trying to remedy.
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You probably know this, but because I did weeks of research trying to figure out what do with my dd for phonics & spelling. Using Writing Road to Reading (by Romalda Spalding) will not be much if any different than what you are doing with Sound Beginnings. Sound Beginnings was based on WRTR methodology from what I understand. I seriously considered getting it. Yes, WRTR is all inclusive but it is not for everyone.
We are using Ordinary Parents Guide, All About Spelling, and Handwriting without Tears . I started out the year using a more complex phonics program but OPG is working better and takes very little time for a great result. I don't have dd read from the book all the time - I write out the words on my big white board on the wall, and sometimes have her do the writing which she loves (on the whiteboard). My dd REALLLY struggles with writing, so HWT is great for her. She doesn't like AAS too much yet, but I'm going to give it some time. I really wanted to use WRTR and even looked at Sound Beginnings, but the intensive handwriting focus would have made dd and me insane. Plus, she doesn't like having to say the AAS phonograms, so that would have been another downer. There are WRTR devotees that say its the only thing, but not everything works for everyone.
HWT is pretty inexpensive (get the teacher guide, it has great tips & teaching helps), and you have OPG, so you could at least try those for a low investment. The 2 slates are worth it too. Have your son read the stories in OPG lessons until he gets to a spot where he struggles, then start at that lesson. You could start at lesson 1, but the first 41 lessons are reviewing the individual letter sounds so that might be too simple for him. If you added AAS, the first step is learning the phonograms for all 26 letters so you'd have covered that anyhow.
just my 2cents.
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Christine Miller has an excellent writeup on her website, Classical Christian Homeschooling, on how to use WRTR simply. http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/curriculum/grammar-orthography.html Also, Spalding.org sells user guides written for grades K-3 (one for each grade) but they are about $70 each, and intended primarily for classroom use from what I understand. I too wanted to use WRTR but couldn't quite figure it out for us -- my ds doesn't have great fine motor skills, and really it is writing based since you are to be teaching writing along with spelling/reading. I ended up ordering All About Spelling since it is also Orton Gillingham based, but not writing intensive, and is very multi-sensory with the letter tiles.
There are some hardcore WRTR fans that probably could give you better advice (there's a yahoo group even), but that's my 2 cents after doing several weeks of research. A private school we considered uses this approach, which partly was why I wanted to use it since my ds may go there at some point; but I had to finally admit it was just beyond my capability (and my ds really).
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I know there are alot of SWR devotees...but I bought it and after looking at it for a week I sent it back. I made my head spin. I wanted to use it but it was TOOOOO teacher unfriendly for me. The author REALLY needed a technical editor to make the curriculum usable in my opinion.
For me AAS is great. Over all the levels of AAS, I am pretty sure it does teach all the same rules. It does include the Ayres list. I love that AAS doesn't teach the silly "y" says short i at the end of words like "baby" which SWR teaches (the THINK TO SPELL deal); AAS includes the long e sound as one of the sounds of Y, while SWR does not. My 1st grade dd just started memorizing the phonograms this week (which she doesn't love practicing, but she's never done anything with flashcards so once we start spelling I think she will like the program). Some think its too teacher intensive (since you aren't just handing them a spelling workbook, you have to teach it; but that's no different than SWR). But it is truly open & go. I think the multi sensory part, with the tiles, will be great for us. It has a money back guarantee for a year, so really you have nothing to lose to try it (other than you spent your money on SWR, but you can sell it for a pretty good price I think). The only downside to AAS I see is that it is expensive once you buy all the levels (but that would probably be over 4 years or more I think). I think I spent about $60 for level 1 plus the starter kit of the tiles etc, including shipping.
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If the Q looks like a 2, that is the old traditional type of cursive I think. I thought maybe it would be Zaner Bloser but on this page it shows the Q round. However, the D'Nealian Cursive has a 2 shaped Q, and a F that might be what you're describing.
http://www.writingwizard.longcountdown.com/alphabet_worksheets.html
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I've been going through a similar struggle, except for a 6 year old who can read and has gone through K in private school. I've read alot of the other postings here, but not all, so I"m sorry if I repeat too much you've already heard.
I actually have ordered AAS, SWR and a 5th edition of WRTR ( you can get it used for pretty cheap on Amazon or ebay by the way). Something is going back, and it's probably AAS but I'm not 100% sure yet.
Here's what I think:
For a 4 year, just work on phonograms (you can get the cards from any of the programs or make your own; I think its lots easier to buy them pre-printed) read aloud tons and let him read as much as he wants.
You might want to think about HOW you are going to do handwriting though, because SWR (based on WRTR) has a specific way to do it that I think would be easier if your ds hadn't already done another program (Like Handwriting w/out Tears, Zaner BLoser etc).
Don't waste your time with non Orton-Gillingham type phonics which is what all these are (so don't even consider Abeka, BJU, etc). If he is already reading, he will be bored. If he loves workbooks, get some cheap ones like ETC just for fun.
Wait until he's 5 going on 6 to start doing something like AAS or SWR. Looking at both but having used neither, I have to agree with everyone who's stated that SWR looks WAAAAAY more complicated. I too am a linear thinker and find that SWR to be written totally not that way. I definitely wouldn't do it with a 4 or 5 year old, but like someone else said there is a section about what to do with a preschooler prior to officially starting the program.
Join the SWR yahoo group and read in the Files section where members have written comparisons to other programs, especially AAS. Having read that, and having it in person, I see how different AAS and SWR are; they are coming from 2 different angles (though both based on Orton GIllingham) but I am sure you could be successful with either.
If you don't mind paying return shipping, it would probably help you alot to order both AAS and SWR and look at them yourself. I ordered AAS thinking I could in no way do SWR from what I read online, but now that I see it (and see what kind of support you can get from yahoo groups, DVDs etc) I am sure I can. If you also can find a copy of WRTR (get the 5th edition !!! the earlier editions are HARD to follow) at the library or used, would also be a big help for you.
My 2 cents.
Lisa
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I just came across an Orton-Gillingham based program called Go Phonics. You can read a review of it on Cathy Duffy's website and also on The Old School House I think. THey have their own website (google it). It looks really good esp. for remedial phonics, but I haven't used it myself.
Lisa
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I am finishing the HWT level K with my dd and I think the teacher manual is worth it. It has a many good tips in it. Plus, the HWT website has great information -- watch the little videos in the teacher section. We are doing the first grade level next year, and I'm definitely getting the teacher edition.
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For what it is worth, I just went through this evaluation between OPGTR and PP (have them both right now from the library). I tried them both out with m daughter (we are starting well into the books since she just completed kindergarten and is reading) and she liked PP, so I just ordered it from Amazon. The tightly scripted format of OPTGR is a little hard for me to deal with.
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Thanks! These replies give me some good insights. Based on the books she's been able to read lately, I'd say my dd is reading on a mid-2nd grade level. I think I'll do some phonics reinforcement with either OPGTR or PP before launching into AAS just to make sure there are no gaps. After looking through both of those, I'm quite sure she hasn't had a number of the later, more complex rules explicitly taught to her. She has a huge sight word vocabulary though. Any opinions on whether OPGTR or PP would be better to use for a child who is already reading well? My inclination is that the scripted format in OPGTR is a little awkward for doing review, vs. teaching from ground zero.
Lisa
dd 6.5
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Hi,
My DD just finished private kindergarten, so this will be our 1st year homeschooling (I'm planning to do mostly classical approach). I'm stumped at what to do with her for phonics. She can read quite well (she can read Frog & Toad are Friends for example; and follows along when I read chapter books to her), but I can't exactly determine how much she can sound out versus having a huge sight word vocabulary. I could never quite get my arms around how they were doing phonics in her kindergarten - they didn't use a written curriculum; it was something the K teachers designed themselves that combined phonics and sight words. I want to make sure she doesn't have phonics gaps, but at the same time I don't want to do too much that would be slow and boring for her (not to mention a waste of time). I am a very left brained, structured person (an engineer by training), so as a teacher I need something I can follow, not something I have to create or something that is loose & free flowing. For that reason, I'm tempted to use something like a packaged first grade phonics curriculum (Saxon Phonics 1, BJU Phonics & English etc) but since I'm also going to do FLL, WWE, and All About Spelling, I wonder if that is overkill. The WRTR approach appeals to me somewhat at, but is a bit overwhelming (which is why I ordered AAS). I'm wondering if AAS will fill in any phonics gaps, or should I try to figure out where she is and use OPGTR along with AAS (starting well into the book)? Her handwriting is the weakest link for her (TWTR wouldn't be too good in that respect), so I'm already using Hand Writing without Tears K with her this summer; I really don't want to use another writing workbook type thing. For this reason, I subscribed to Explode the Code Online, which she's started on a little (in book 2 online). I'm also planning to use BJU Reading 1, again because I want something to follow and I've read good reviews of it (plus I've seen it - her school would use it if she had stayed there).
So here's my Language arts plan so far - is it enough?:
FLL 1
WWE1
AAS Level 1
ETC Online (for fun & practice)
BJU Reading 1
Should I add OPTGR and start part way through the book?
Thanks in advance for thoughts & advice!!!
Lisa (nervous 1st time hs'er) :001_smile:
dd 6.5
LA for kindergartner that can read?
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
And my advice is do OPGTR. Start with lesson 42 or when the sounds of invidual letters are completed. I'd start it in K if I was you. I have a 1st grader reading on a 2nd/3rd level, but she is benefitting from going through OPGTR. I started out with a more formal phonics that was TOOOOO basic (and too expensive and complicated), but OPG is perfect for us. On the earlier lessons I"d do 2 or more at a time just having her read the stories to me to be sure she had the phonics because I was suspecting she was a sight reader in part (she did K in a private school so I didn't teach her to read). Now that we're up to lesson 60, she is slowing down to 1 or 2 a day. Yes she knows how to read (she is reading a chapter book to herself right now), but when she reads aloud to me it is obvious that she does need to practice those individual phonograms to get them straight in her brain. I am not doing any work book like ETC right now, but might add it later.
We are also doing AAS a couple of times a week. It takes very little time, so this plus OPG (esp. at one lesson per day) is not much and they work together well. Plus FLL a couple times a week and WWE a couple times a week. This SOUNDS like a lot, but in time it is not at all. If she were not grasping it, I would slow down. OPGTR + FLL + WWE + AAS work really well as a basic LA program that aren't super time consuming. AAS level 1 really is written on a 1st grade level (even K).
For handwriting I am using HWT. It is OK. My dd has handwriting issues that she's had since K (they barely taught it in her private K really - more of "copy this"). I think part of it is that printing is hard because of the up & down and I'm probably going to go to cursive when I figure out what program to use. If I was starting from scratch, I would teach her cursive and not manuscript. Those straight lines are HARD for little hands; she naturally wants to write more loopy, and there are articles written that say cursive first is better (and what was taught in first grade prior to sight reading being introduced with the Dick & Jane readers). Just more food for thought. I even went to a HWT training class (not a good use of money IMHO) and I am still not convinced HWT is that wonderful; it works great for some people but it is not the be all end all. I had hoped to get more from the training than I got from reading the teacher manual, but really I did not. Probably more than you really wanted to know !!! :)