With all the talk about chores and allowances, I was wondering how many of you don't ask your kids to do any (age and ability appropriate) chores at all? When my son said he didn't understand why *he* had to do them because none of his friends did, I thought, "Yeah -- right -- I've heard that before." But I've since learned that, in fact, very few of his friends or acquaintances are actually responsible for helping around the house. And the cooking skills are almost limited to being able to microwave popcorn. The Moms usually say it's just easier to do it themselves, and I certainly understand this sentiment. When my boy started doing the dishes, most of them had to be rewashed several times. Now, a few months later, he does a fine job, with the exception of the occasional bit of stubborn cheese or egg, but that's about it. But I just don't think I'd be doing my son any favors if he grew up thinking the house magically cleaned itself?

Yes -- congratulations on raising such a fine son who knows what he wants and goes for it!

It's only in the past year or so my 15 yo has been able to stay up until about 10:00. For some reason, before that, if he wasn't in bed by 8:00, there was no getting him up in the morning until 9:00 or 10:00. As he was getting older, we tried many times to move it to 9:00, but it just didn't work out. He never did like going to bed even as a baby -- he was afraid he'd miss something, I guess. He didn't sleep through the night until he was three!! He was always up wandering around the house. And then up at the crack of dawn. But as he got older, he still didn't want to go to sleep, but he was a bear to get up in the mornings. That part really hasn't changed much, but at least now he has other incentives to get him up.

Jodi and Beth -- This is my realization also -- I'm just expecting too much too soon. I'm really working on it, but it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. I was an ace in school, and that doesn't help at all. I just don't understand why he's not more like me. LOL!! My folks weren't involved in my education because they didn't have to be. I much preferred to work on my own and I only really remember needing help one time -- when we moved from Oregon to California in fifth grade and I was *way* behind in math. My Dad spent every night for two weeks teaching me fractions. :-) Of course, that was back in the good ol' days when we walked ten miles to school, in the snow, uphill both ways, fighting dinosaurs on the way. :-D The other issue I have is focusing on what he's doing wrong, rather than what he's doing right, because it's what he's doing wrong that needs attention and takes up so much time. When I actually sit back and look at all that he's accomplished in the last two years, it really is amazing -- skills, attitude -- I am thrilled. I just have to make sure he knows that. :-) I want to wish you two the best of luck, but I don't think luck has anything to do with it. It's a lot of hard work, for us and our kids -- but it's definitely worth it. But for lack of a better phrase, good luck! :-)

Jodi -- I just wanted to let you know that I asked a similar question on the old boards a few months ago. I was really frustrated that my son (9th grade) wasn't working more independently. I don't have the same problems that you do, as I only have the one child to work with, but I really was expecting him to work more to find his own answers before asking me. I was reminded at that time (I'm sorry, I can't remember who posted it) that kids in PS still receive quite a bit of "hand holding" -- and I had forgotten that. I know it seems that everyone here has really academic kids, but actually I think there's a good mix of those who are and those who struggle in one area or another -- otherwise these boards wouldn't be so busy. ;-) As a matter of fact, it was simply because everyone else's kids seemed to be doing so well that I wondered what the problem was, and asked the question in the first place. He has really progressed since that time. We spend quite a bit of time working on his math, but other than that he is pretty much working independently now that he is used to the work he needs to do, and how it is expected to be done. I also started telling him to try to figure it out for himself while I finished up with this or that. Before long, most of the time, he found that he *could* do it himself. We still spend a lot of time working on math together. But in the other areas, he seems to be able to work through it on his own now. It may just be a matter of time, after she's had a chance to mature a little more and gain more confidence? Another problem I think we had is that we were expecting too much of him at this age, and he was expecting too much, too. We had always had the problem in school that, if he didn't understand something, he wouldn't ask for help. As near as we could figure, he had been told for so long by us and his teachers that he was so smart -- somehow he got the idea that he was just supposed to already know everything and wasn't supposed to need help! We fought that battle for awhile too, and maybe he went too far the other way. But we seem to have reached a happy medium now. HTH (Now that I've said this, he'll probably forget everything tomorrow. <g>)

Thanks for posting this, Rhonda. I'm having the same problem, but "eventually" is just a few minutes or an hour. I'd like to know the answer to this one, too. I've never had this problem with similar boards. Kris

Hi, Regena -- We are doing this, too. I tried lumping it all into one, but he's doing *so* much work, I think he should get credit for that. My son didn't get a lot of (if any -- it's looking like there wasn't any at all) grammar, etc., in PS, so we're doing quite a bit of the "mechanics" in 9th grade -- enough to earn one credit. So the lit work, and the writing and analysis that goes with it, are a separate credit. I'm calling one "English Comp" and the other "English Lit." I'm not sure, but I think I got this idea from TWTM in the transcript section.

Well, I have reputations now, but someone clicked the wrong button. ;-)

This post hit me right between the eyes. I'm the strict one. My hubby is so relaxed he almost falls over! :D We don't have a parent actually trying to work in the house -- my hubby is a truck driver and gone most of the time. I have projects that I work on, but nothing really that important. We also don't have a child trying to practice four (wow!) instruments, but we do have the house issue in common. We've completely re-done this place and I was really uptight about any damage. I'm not saying it's easy, but I really am working on it and we're all so much happier. My family isn't close. Most of us can't stand each other. I was raised in a very strict house and I don't know how much that has to do with our ongoing relationships, but I realized one day that I didn't want to be sitting at home waiting for a call on Mother's Day that never comes. I got a wake up call one day when I was telling my son, "Why can't you stop acting like a --" and my husband said, "A kid?!" Bingo! My son is still a KID! He's a very *big* kid, but he's a kid -- and since I've relaxed I've found that he's a pretty cool kid with a quick wit and a wicked sense of humor. I don't feel like I'm losing any of my "authority figure" status when we laugh together. We decided to have only one bathroom in this house and I quickly found that we needed another! But then I realized that in a few more years, we won't need it. He'll be out on his own -- gone. I gently urge your DH to think about his ongoing relationship with his son. I certainly don't mean to suggest that they don't have a good relationship, but you are saying you need to play peacemaker. Hubby had that role for a long, long time, and sometimes still does. I know I've thrown a lot of odd things in here, but the main message is this: if he can just try to relax a little bit, he might find that he can really enjoy this time. Your son is certainly old enough to respect boundaries and rules, and he wouldn't be crashing about the house like a wild thing. The practicing all those instruments thing, though, wow -- you've got me stumped on that. My son tried music with several different instruments and nothing suited him, so that was that. I hope this works out for you! I have always been a little envious of the "free-wheeling, child-centered, homeschool-loving, almost hippy-ish" mamas I've ever met. :)

Thanks for posting this -- it's interesting to see what others are doing. I guess I'm a little on the high side, but -- As of last summer, my 15 yo was getting $10.00 per week if he did his chores. We originally didn't pay him for those, also believing that it was his responsibility to help as a member of the family. But I spent too much time with nagging and do-overs. Once he was being paid for satisfactory work, that didn't end completely, but it did help a lot. Then he came to me one day and asked if he could have $20.00 if he did more work -- and listed the additional things he was willing to do. I was really impressed, partially because one of them was doing the dishes, which he *hates* to do. So I told him we'd try it, but I wasn't going to play Cop -- if he didn't get his chores done, he wouldn't get his allowance. It's worked pretty well so far -- up until just this last week. For some reason, he just took a vacation. So my wallet did, too. :-) And there's no grey area -- no partial payment. Either I'm happy with what he's done, or I'm not. So either he gets paid or he doesn't. I don't put any restrictions on what he does with his money. I thought about it, but wanted to see what he would do. Actually, I think he's doing pretty well with his priorities, i.e., how much he saves and what he spends it on.

I'm sorry, but I don't see what the big deal is. If you click on the scales, you get two choices -- "I approve" or "I disapprove." I don't see anything more inflammatory than that. I think the toy is poorly named, i.e., "reputation" -- I think that could be better worded. I certainly don't expect every person reading my posts to "approve" or agree with what I say. It's better if they only think that? Actually, I find I'm usually in the minority on most things. Like now. :-) Please -- feel free to disapprove of this post! :-D

Honestly, I'm a nicer Mom now that we are homeschooling, but I only have one to deal with. I really don't know if I could handle more. He's a nicer kid, now, too! Some of it might be just that he's growing up, but when he was in public school, I realize now, we were both stressed out messes. I was constantly having to deal with "authority figures" which is not my strength. And he was dealing with a lot, too, and as time goes on I learn more and more about all the problems he was having with the kids, the teachers, the bus drivers. I was breathing a sigh of relief when he left in the morning and I dreaded when he would come home in the afternoons -- the notes, the phone calls and the lies (like, no I don't have any homework -- then come to find out he wasn't doing *anything*). Things are *so* much better now. Stuff just doesn't bother me -- or him -- like it used to. But, like I said, if I had to do it with more than one, I don't think that would be the case.

Hi, Heather! Oh no -- I haven't posted that tome before. What I meant was that I kept starting over to try to make it more concise. Didn't work. :D We have something here in Missouri that sounds a bit like the Georgia program you have. I think they take the first 2,500 students for free, but I didn't find out about it, of course, until it was full. You can pay for the courses if you want, but as I recall they have the same limitations on the number of courses you can take, and though I don't recall the cost, I do remember it was considerable. :)

Hi, Heather -- I've written this response over and over and over and each time it just gets longer and longer. So I'll just make a -- hopefully -- simple list and if you have any questions, just let me know. The cost is one good thing about the program. Since most of the courses have no textbooks to buy, that helps. The course materials are apparently written and generated at BYU -- you get a package of pages that you can put into a binder. So that helps with the cost. This is the only positive I can think of right now. There really was no specific person to ask questions of. I specifically asked them if we were supposed to be supplementing the material, and they said no. They do have a message board, but it wasn't active. I never saw any instructors posting there, and most questions were going unanswered. It seemed to be mostly a social thing. The Algebra 1 class did not have enough practice problems. I remember there being only about five or ten at the end of each lesson. I confirmed this with a math teacher -- I showed her the course materials -- and she said there was definitely not enough practice for the concepts. If he had any questions about anything, the only way I could help him was to do the lesson myself -- and then there was no way to tell if *I* was doing it right. It seemed that the kids were expected to work alone -- with no help. I didn't have a problem with that, but when he got more and more lost, there were no resources. I have mentioned before that my son is bright but lazy and not very motivated. But I don't think that was the problem here. He worked very, very hard on these courses (I can't remember all of them, but we had at least Algebra 1 and Spanish 1) and was more and more frustrated as it went on. He was thrilled to be starting high school subjects and really put his heart into it. One of the reasons I returned the courses for a refund and went on to TWTM is because I was "losing him -- he was really discouraged. We had an ethics course that he did very well in, probably because of his reading level (read the selection and answer the questions). But we didn't bother with the final for that because it had to be proctored and we weren't using the rest of the program at that point. He worked on this for almost two months. You could withdraw from the class and get a refund for the lessons that weren't completed, so if I recall correctly we got about half our money back. That took another two or three months -- to get the refund. I also remember that I didn't think the courses were long enough. They were supposed to be for a full semester, I believe, but only had about eight lessons each that could be done in about one or two days. This didn't seem to me to be anywhere near the hours usually required for high school credit. They did require that you take, I think, eight weeks to complete a course. So that's another reason I thought we would need to supplement with something, but was told that was not the case. All in all, it was a horrid experience. I felt so sorry for him and he was *so* frustrated to be working so hard and going backwards with each lesson. I really don't see how a student who doesn't already know the material would be able to master it with what is provided, and the teachers I spoke to thought so, too. Well, this is still too long, and I'm sorry. This program *must* work for some kids because they've had it in place for a long time and BYU is a respected university, which is why I was so excited that they had this program. But I really can't think of what we might have done differently to make it successful. Hard work certainly didn't do it. I really tried to think of some more positive aspects because as I read over this it is *so* negative. But I really can't think of any. HTH (and sorry it's so long -- so much for a simple list!) Kris

I usually don't post to "Introduction" threads because I can't ever think of anything to say -- but here goes: I've just turned 50 and first homeschooled my daughter 20-some years ago using Calvert. We noticed one night, when she was in fifth grade, that it was 10:00 p.m. and she was still working on homework. She didn't know her multiplication tables, but was trying to do long division. Since she was a pretty bright kid, I wondered what was going on, and asked her teacher why she was doing long division when she didn't know multiplication yet. The teacher told me "they couldn't wait for her." I also took that opportunity to ask the teacher why she was getting such good grades on her compositions, even though they were filled with spelling and other errors. I was told that it was the ideas they were looking for, and grammar and spelling "didn't count." I was going to just try to work with her at night to get her caught up, but the end of that week I got a note from the teacher that was so poorly written that I could barely read it. She never went back to public school and I never regretted a minute of it. Within just a month or so with the Calvert program she was caught up and getting A's again. So when I found that my son was on the way, I was determined to homeschool him from the very beginning, but I met with resistance on every front, especially from my son. He wanted to go to school, and he did very well, so I didn't worry. What I found out was that he wanted to go to school because he liked recess! As soon as he hit the grades where he didn't have recess anymore, his "class clown" act caught up with him. He was constantly in trouble and not doing his work. Every week I got notes or calls from the principal. He was doing just enough to get by. It was a constant battle. He had been nominated for the gifted program by his second grade teacher, but never did well enough on the tests to be admitted. He told me later he "didn't know those tests were important" and hadn't taken them seriously. It didn't help that it took almost three years for them to do the testing, and he got discouraged. He was excited about the program, but the delays took care of that. When he was in seventh grade and first semester grades were coming out, I called the principal to see how he was doing (I never did hear from *any* of his teachers at *any* time and my calls and notes to them were unanswered.) The principal told me that he had personally spoken to all of his teachers and that he "isn't setting the world on fire, but he is passing." Imagine my surprise when I got his report card -- nothing but D's and F's. I don't think he even passed PE. I had been telling him that I wanted to homeschool him, so if he wanted to stay in school with his friends, he better clean up his act. He obviously hadn't done that. And I also didn't understand what kind of school considered D's and F's "passing." So that was the end of that. I pulled him out mid-year. I found out later that he had other problems at the school besides just grades -- bullying and things like that that we didn't know anything about. Since my son is a completely different kid from my daughter, I will admit that I was not really excited about having him home all the time. He's definitely very bright, but not at all motivated, definitely lazy, and by the time I took him out of school he hated reading of any kind -- even though he was reading at 11th grade level. I wanted to use the Calvert program again since I was already familiar with it and we were both crushed after he took the placement test and we found that he was working two years below grade level. So my seventh grade son was doing fifth grade work and he was devastated. But I have to say he worked really, really hard and he is now where he should be, age-wise. The only problem he had that we needed help with was his writing skills. He was really struggling and I didn't seem to be able to help him with it. I wasn't sure if I was expecting too much. He went to Sylvan Learning Centers for a few months and is now writing at college level. It did take a few months for us to "get our feet under us." But that was two years ago and he's doing great. We follow TWTM pretty closely and he loves it -- including the books that he is reading! His friends are all in high school now and at least once a week one of them will call to ask him to come back to school -- and he always tells them he isn't interested. He wants to go to college and admits that he spent too much time messing around with his friends and didn't get his school work done. I have always been a loner and admit that I don't really understand him -- and I doubt I ever will. But he is a really great, social kid, and we make sure that he has plenty of outside activities and has his friends over so he doesn't feel isolated. That can be hard to do as we live in such a rural area -- it isn't a matter of walking down the block to visit. But we're making it work and we are both *so* much happier. I guess I managed to find a few things to say. :-)

Our experience with Brigham Young University Independent Study was a disaster. I would suggest trying one course to see if it works for you. It definitely didn't work for us.

My son loved them. He's done the "A" series and the "B" series. I have the "C" series, but he's got so much work to do, he hasn't been able to fit these last books in yet.

It was a horrible experience and it's taken me over two years to get my son interested in reading after the AR program. He never was the book worm that I was, but after the AR experience, I couldn't even get him to read a comic book. He read books very much below his grade level to get the quick points -- despite the fact that his reading was scoring at college level. All efforts to get his teachers to insist on above-grade level books were futile -- they couldn't be bothered. The fact that I told *him* to read above-level books as a waste of time, too, since he didn't have access to the library that contained them. I have nothing good to say about AR. This year, he's read The Iliad, The Odyssey, and he's just starting on Greek drama. He's also reading four or five news magazines per month and he actually will go to the bookcase and pull something out for pleasure reading. This is after over two years of homeschooling where he's been exposed to more than first, second or third grade books. I don't place *all* the blame on the school. He didn't do what he was told, either, and it became a mess. But AR reading was the catalyst. And by the way -- I think 40 or 50 points per quarter is *way* too much.

I just wanted to say that I love this new board -- and was relieved to see that it had been implemented, but I am familiar with the interface from other sites that I visit. The old boards were impossible for me to follow and I gave up after a month or so. For one thing, having to pull up each page and do a CTRL+F to search was ineffective, and I never did find a way to search the actual messages themselves. As with most things, it's just what you're used to -- and what you're expecting to be able to find. There are a lot of tools to help you find threads that you've responded to, and what's been posted. You can also keep track of what your friends have posted. A few days of digging around should reveal a lot, but specifically the links across the top of the page (to the control panel, etc.) and the icons that are listed at the bottom of the list of messages will help a lot. HTH

Thanks for these pointers, Brenda. I really appreciate the help.

Thank you so much for this information. I've had a hard time grading my son's writing assignments -- and there are *so* many of them! I have "Teaching the Essay" but we haven't used it yet (he's had so much other work to do) but this gives me a starting point. We use Home School Tracker, so up to now I've just been marking his writing assignments as completed because I didn't want to assign grades that were too high or too low. So now I have quite a bit to go back through and actually grade. :) Thanks again for posting this.

Hi -- I am using this program with my son (9th grade). He doesn't like it, but that's because he just doesn't like grammar -- if he had his way he would be doing nothing but science. He *is* doing well with it, though. And I like it because even though I haven't done grammar in more years than I'd like to think about, it's coming back to me quickly, too, so I don't feel out of the loop. Good luck!