Here's my X (assuming the sky's the limit): ;) [Note: The colors don't mean anything, but that is how I think of things (in colors)] -- Yellow (Birth-3 years) The mother is able and willing to be home with the child, at least most of the time. She is nurturing, affectionate, patient, and reliable. She bonds with her child through feeding, bathing, snuggling, singing, talking, and playing. The young child feels secure and calm in the family's (usually) predictable routines. The home is reasonably clean, organized, and well-maintained. The child receives excellent nutrition, fresh air, sunshine, exercise, medical care, and rest. The entire family is tobacco-, alcohol-, and drug-free. Usage of electronic entertainment is kept to a minimum. There are appropriate toys, games, puzzles, and books in the home. Parents, grandparents, and other family members directly interact with the child daily, using proper speech patterns (i.e., not "baby talk") and a large vocabulary. Conversations are a normal part of family life. Arguments are rare. The child's parents have a healthy, stable marriage. Family members are emotionally healthy, or are steadfastly working their way to a state of health and wellness. Parents are mature, responsible, diligent, knowledgeable, capable, and willing to be in charge of themselves, their homes, and their children (i.e., "in authority"). The child begins to understand acceptable limitations on behavior (e.g., "no" means "no"), experiences gentle-but-firm discipline (when necessary), and recognizes and respects the parents' authority. Towards the end of this age range, the child starts to perform simple household tasks, under direct supervision and instruction. For example, the child can pick up toys, match socks, fold wash cloths, rake leaves, wash dishes (bowls), and (perhaps) feed a pet. The child spends significant time in nature, learning through first-hand observation and immersion. The park, the garden, the beach, the forest, the backyard, the farm, the farm market -- these are the young child's earliest and best "science classroom." The child spends time in the larger community -- with grandparents and other family members, at church, at the library, at the zoo, at the aquarium -- beginning to know the world and its wonders. For the most part, though, the young child is at home, with his or her mother (and siblings), learning from everyday life in the home setting. Green (3-6 years) The mother continues to be able and willing to be home with the child, at least most of the time. The same stability of life that characterized the early years endures throughout these preschool years. Perhaps at this point, the parents begin to focus the child's attention on distinctions of vocabulary (e.g., the differences between birds, as in "Blue Jay" or "American Robin"). They verbally (and more specifically) label "all the things" encountered by their child -- colors, textures, temperatures, tastes, foods, smells, sounds, musical instruments, flowers, trees, other plants, mammals, reptiles, birds, fish, amphibians, insects, invertebrates, games, toys, articles of clothing, body parts, vehicles, buildings, and so on. The child begins to acquire a more specific vocabulary in many areas. Parents in some way incorporate music into the preschool years. This could be as elaborate as Kinder Music classes or private music lessons (which I don't think are truly necessary, but not harmful if there's no pressure on the child), or as simple as singing, marching, and banging a drum at home to a Wee Sing CD (which was extremely fun for all involved!) Parents in some way continue to keep the child immersed in nature. This could be accomplished through formal "nature study" classes (perhaps at a local park), or through family hikes in the woods. The child could have a tiny plot of earth, or soil in a pot, in which to plant a few things -- zinnias, dill, basil, and green bush beans. Parents regularly read to the child, from picture books and chapter books. They make trips to the library and fill up a wagon with books (literally). Towards the end of this age range, the child begins to learn how to read, with consistent instruction a few minutes (10-15) a day, from The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading, followed by BOB books or easy readers from the library (or the readers from All About Reading). If the child shows an interest, the mother can begin to teach simple letter formation (copywork), starting with lower case letters. The child learns to print his or her name. The child orally learns the parents' full names, home address, home phone number, birthdate, age, full names of siblings, and any other information the parents consider essential for safety. The child learns to use safety scissors, a glue stick, and how to fold paper. The child plays with clay, sand, playdough, burlap embroidery, beads, and other craft materials to develop hand strength and hand-eye-brain coordination. However, the overall focus of these years is not on "seatwork," but on vocabulary building (through conversations, experiences, and books) and large muscle development (through work, exercise, play, nutrition, and rest). While the child continues to experience life in the wider community, for the most part, the day is spent primarily at home with the mother (and siblings). Blue (6-9 years) Violet (9-12 years) Red (12-15 years) Orange (15-18 years) Brown (18-21? 22? years) Black (21? 22?-God only knows when)

Our neighbor does this with his goats. They eat poison ivy, weeds, just about anything. They really clear out the brush, better than a lawn mower or weed whacker. But, yes, goat rental is expensive. I'm trying to barter with him -- I'll take care of his goats when he goes on vacation, and he'll bring his goats over in the spring and fall to clean up our poison ivy patches. Alas, his son still lives at home, so I am not needed. For now....

No, that would be cruel. Chickens need friends. Seriously, one chicken? So lonely! :crying:

Actually... these people may be your neighbors! ;) Even without goats, homesteading in LA is a possibility. http://inhabitat.com/this-family-produces-6000-pounds-of-food-per-year-on-4000-square-feet-of-land/

I want goats. Later, when math is done, we'll get goats.

At age 8, it's too early to be concerned about plagiarism. He's doing the best he can at this point, even if it's little more than copywork. But if you want to help your student avoid copying word-for-word, you might teach him to go through a passage and underline the key words. Perhaps you could photocopy the passage you want him to read (for information), then use that to show him how to highlight the key words. Most children that age love using highlighters, LOL! :) Then, he could copy the key words onto another piece of paper, put the original article away, and begin to write. Over time, he will learn to use his own words more smoothly. When you get to WWS 1 (around age 11? 12?), there are lessons dealing specifically with plagiarism -- what it is, why it needs to be avoided, and how to avoid it. There are also lessons that teach students how to reword phrases and sentences to suit their purposes -- for example, how to turn descriptive adjectives into nouns (and vice versa), how to turn passive verbs into active verbs (and vice versa), how to use a thesaurus to find related words, and how to incorporate direct quotations into an essay. All of these skills build over time, and help the student avoid plagiarism. Honestly, I wouldn't even call it that with an eight year old. In his mind, he's just writing his report. Later, when he understands the effort that a writer puts into a piece of writing, he'll have a better appreciation for why we do not "steal" a writer's work without attributing credit. HTH.

:iagree: If she's reading at that level, then it's fine to "just read" for a while. Read plenty of picture books (don't drop these too early) and chapter books. I wouldn't worry about basal readers or a phonics program, but I might move on to spelling (All About Spelling). Read aloud to her and have her read aloud to you. My girls are in 4th, 4th, and 6th, and I still want to hear them reading aloud from various resources -- science books, history books, chapter books, poetry, Shakespeare, the Bible, the dictionary, an atlas, a map, a cookbook (can they read the measurements?), my aunt's old-fashioned cursive writing, and so on. ;) We've gotten a few laughs from their pronunciations of things! ;) We like this set of books (instead of McGuffey). I like the idea of McGuffey, but some of the content is too heavy on Dead Mothers and Birds with Broken Wings. :sad: Glooooooomy. So we like these books instead. HTH. https://www.christianbook.com/classics-for-young-readers-kit/pd/728543?event=CPOF

:iagree: We never used ABeka here, but people I've talked to who have burned out have burned out (in a year or two) using ABeka. I've also heard of this happening at Christian schools, too, not only with homeschoolers. When my oldest was beginning Kindergarten (at home), someone gave me the 1st grade materials from ABeka, the whole set. We never used it. The course seemed like a ton of busywork, so many parts and pieces (though it may be different now?), and too cumbersome to really use well at home with other little ones to care for. That was our only experience with ABeka, and I'm glad we had it, because after that, whenever someone we knew burned out on ABeka, I could somewhat understand why. HTH. Edited to add: Actually, we did, now that I think of it. :blushing: We used Health, Safety & Manners one year for Health. I think we used the 3rd grade book, when the girls were in 2nd, 2nd, and 4th (just to be in the middle, so to speak). It was full of "shoulds, musts, and oughts," which I think is fairly typical ABeka. Also, my (polite) New Jersey girls thought that some of the sections on manners were... interesting. I could relate, having lived in Missouri for several years, but they had never heard of children addressing adults with "sir" or "ma'am." I thought it was good exposure to other norms, but if children did that around here, they would stand out as odd (or from somewhere else). Other manners that stood out to them included boys opening doors and pulling out chairs for girls ("Why can't we open our own door?" "It's cultural, Sweetie." "Oh."), taking your hat off in church (we do this here, too, but my girls are not boys, obviously, so they hadn't heard of this before), and a few other things that might be relevant to raising children in peninsular Florida, but maybe not the Northeast? I did think that the health and safety/basic first aid information was well-done and I'm glad we did this course. In fact, after we finished the course that year, I had them independently re-read each chapter over the following school year. The girls still remember quite a bit from that book! We did much of it orally, as a group. So, all that to say, I think there might be resources within ABeka that are worthwhile. Oh! And we use the Bird cards, Flower cards, Grammar charts, Tree charts, and other Science charts all the time! LOVE the Bird cards! LOVE the Flower cards! Duh! How could I forget those? :svengo: Use the resources from ABeka that work for you, and leave behind whatever doesn't. HTH.

What we accomplished today... Wednesday 11/2 Regular chores, meals, laundry, exercise, pets, hygiene, rest School work -- Group: Bible Lesson, Science Lesson with Labs 6th: Math, Composition, Vocabulary, Spelling, Grammar, French, Piano 4th: Math, A.I.R. (with written work), Vocabulary, Spelling, Grammar, French, Piano Church midweek (girls) Grocery shopping (hubby) Laundry & tidying up (me)

It's commendable that you are looking for ways to encourage parents (who are in the box) to think outside the box. Any time we can encourage parents to consider what learning really is, that is a good thing to do. But I honestly think we need to talk about The Box. Preschool, Kindergarten, 1st Grade, 2nd Grade.... what comes next? Third Grade. General Science, Biology, Chemistry... what comes next? Physics. Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Geometry... what comes next? Algebra 2. We all know the right "answers," because we are products of The Box. The Box is the system that encourages a fairly shallow form of exposure to numerous subjects, mastery of almost nothing, and years of passive assignment acceptance. In that system, the "good students" are those who most willingly, capably, and punctually do what they're told to do by a higher authority. A few years ago, an (asthmatic) young relative of ours had bronchitis and missed three days of school. When he returned, he was told, "You have three days to make up all the missed work, plus keep up with your ongoing assignments." The valiant boy tried. He got pneumonia. He missed four days of school. When he returned, he was told, "You have four days to make up all the missed work, plus keep up with your ongoing assignments." The valiant boy tried. He nearly died (literally) in 11th grade, because The Box could only say what it was programmed to say. The Box had no interest in his very life, no interest in his (actual) learning, no concern for his health, no words of comfort or encouragement for his spirit, and no underlying environment of joy. IMO, at times it is brutal. I realize that this is simply our anecdotal experience with The Box. However, if it feels like a beast intent on chewing up your children, I suppose a person's natural inclination might be to fight it? Or avoid it? My personal answer to getting "outside the box" was to avoid it entirely and start from scratch. Edited to add: But the older my children get, the more concerned I become with the checklists and expectations of the system. Whether or not I "agree" with what those are -- and I don't entirely disagree, I just think blind adherence can be destructive and dehumanizing -- those expectations are with us, and our children are going out into that world someday. So they should be prepared for the world in which they will eventually have to function. I would encourage parents to look as far past the school calendar, school subjects, and school requirements as they possibly can, to the point where those things begin to be blurry and fade from view. Now, what do you see? Instead of years of putting in time and going through the motions, imagine your children learning and thriving. What does that look like? How do they learn? Imagine all of them as healthy as possible, as rested as possible, as content as possible, as joyful as possible. If a parent can imagine that, there is the place to begin. Next -- take that rested, healthy, content, and joyful child. Add reading. Read aloud, day after day. Add audiobooks. Listen to stories, day after day. Add narrations. Tell stories back, day after day. Add copywork, dictation, and math. That, plus play time and snuggles, is the basic day (for younger children, but also older children who need that foundation solidly laid). Do things together. Cooking, chores, games, puzzles, sports, exercise, pets, family time, travel, personal hygiene, gardening, yard work, crafting, hobbies, anything real (not so much virtual). Practice practical skills. Practice habits of productivity. Encourage parents to limit electronics (their own and their child's). Encourage family time and conversations. Encourage family worship, faith formation, and scripture reading. Talk about character traits and how to develop good habits. What builds general knowledge? Parents can incorporate reading, experiments, conversation, experiences, documentaries, travel, community service, and more into their routines as ways of growing their child's understanding of how the world works. What develops a child's appreciation of beauty? Parents can explore nature, art, music, dance, drama, architecture, and world cultures with their children. Even though we have plenty of breathing room here where we live, I still endeavor to create a rich and full life for our children, educational and otherwise. But I always come back to that basic foundation of health, rest, contentment, and joy. Parents who are already in the box don't need another checklist of things "to do" with their children, so much as encouragement to look beyond the checklists that are already dominating their lives. HTH.

What we accomplished Tuesday... Tuesday 11/1 Regular chores, meals, laundry, exercise, pets, hygiene, rest School work: Group -- History lesson, Book Club read aloud (The Railway Children) 6th -- Math, Assigned Independent Reading, Grammar, JBQ, Bible MW, French, Choir homework 4th & 4th -- Math, Composition, Vocabulary, JBQ, Bible MW, French, Choir homework Early bedtime for girls

What we accomplished on Monday... Monday 10/31 Regular chores, meals, laundry, exercise, pets, hygiene, rest School work: Group -- Bible lesson, Science 6th -- Math, Composition, Vocabulary, Grammar, Spelling, French, Piano 4th & 4th -- Math, Assigned Independent Reading, Grammar, Spelling, French, Piano Trick-or-treating with friends, potluck afterwards

(OLD THREAD) OhElizabeth, did you end up using James Madison? If so, what did you think of it? Did your daughter enjoy it? Would it be a good course for a diligent, verbal, story-loving, history-loving 7th grader? I'm starting to think about adding on Logic next year. We haven't done much with it yet, just some Perplexors, a few Mind Benders, a bit of Sudoku and Chess, and some Analogies. We have Thinking Toolbox and Fallacy Detectives, but I couldn't stand the Bluedorn boys' tone (condescending, critical of everyone, IMO). I have tried several times (unsuccessfully) to work myself through Cothran's Traditional Logic I. Ugh, whine, moan, it's so dry. I know she would hate it. She'll do whatever I say she has to do, but I'd hate to torture her with TL I. Up until next year, I want to focus her brain power on for Math, Grammar, and Composition. If we can solidify Grammar and make good strides ahead in Composition this year, I think she'll have room on her plate for Logic in 7th grade. What were your experiences with James Madison?

I have one daughter who can at times be frustratingly slow (my 6th grader). I think she just loses track of the time. What helps is putting timeframes on her work list. I tell her that, while I don't want her to panic or freak out if she goes a bit over, I do want her to AIM at those timeframes and not let Assignment X take half the day. Example: Composition, WWS 1, Week ___, Day ___ (outline) Target Time = 10:45 am (based on when she starts) Math, Lesson ____ Target Time = ___________ (whatever I decide) Spelling Approx. 15 minutes, so _______________ am/pm French Approx. 20 minutes, so _______________ am/pm Wordly Wise, Unit ___, Exercises A & B Approx. 20 minutes, so _______________ am/pm And so on, all the way through her listed work. Either I put in the times, or she puts in the times, based on an estimate of how long it should take. This seems to have helped her keep herself moving along. ;) She doesn't always need it now, but from time to time, she returns to Slow Mode, and so the times go back on the work list. Another thing that helped us here was to (1) determine how long I wanted my school day to be, and (2) determine a reasonable load for a week. At the appointed time each day, we are "done," whether or not she accomplished that day's work. At the end of the week, though, we roll everything not accomplished over onto Saturday. That motivates us all to move it along during the regular school week. Perhaps a few weekends of catching up will help your son to decide to move it during the week? Otherwise, you'll be finishing up 8th grade in July or August. HTH.

Bill -- Let's suppose that I am one of those neglectful, slothful, math-dunce homeschool moms you like to talk about... ... and I come here, to the Well-Trained Mind boards... :blink: [How the heck did I end up here?] ... and I post exactly what the OP posted about wanting to start more formal math work with my eight year old... ... and it reads, "If you delay starting a formal math program, when do you start and what do you use? Do you do anything in particular to prepare your students for the transition?" (which I think is quite friendly and positive-sounding, actually)... ... and I read your first response, alluding to my "misguided ideology"... :001_unsure: Tell me, how does what you've said change anything, except the direction of the thread? So now, instead of actually answering the OP with something practical and useful, we get to clarify to you once again that, nooooo, this isn't another one of those instances of gross neglect that you somehow keep seeing on these forums. Tell me, how could what you said even reach a mother like the one you seem to assume is posting? Because I can tell you that, if I were that mother, your comment would not even begin to make sense to me. It would fly right over my empty head. And since I am not that mother, and am not misperceiving what you are saying, it is simply offensive. I think that if a person truly wants to see math education improve for homeschooled students, then that person will refrain from derailing countless math threads with accusations of "Neglect!"

Granted, there are neglectful homeschoolers. IME, there are neglectful "everythings" out there. Pick any category. I'm sure someone doing Job X is neglectful at it. It isn't that I disagree with your assertions that rankles, Bill. It's that you tend to come onto a thread (like this one) that has nothing to do with your soapbox, and yet you still get up on your soapbox, I'm not exactly sure why. It does seem to me that you jump at any opportunity, even if it isn't really there, to read EDUCATIONAL NEGLECT into a situation where it certainly isn't an issue. Simply because the OP mentions the word "late," is it justifiable to caution her against missing out on "the critical window of early learning" due to "misguided ideology?" I think that's a leap on your part. You remind me of the robot on "Lost in Space," waving its arms and calling, "Warning! Warning! Will Robinson! Danger! Danger!" Except with you it is always "Educational Neglect! Lazy Homeschoolers! Delayed Math Ruins Lives!" -- because someone asks how to start her eight year old on a more formal math program? I don't get it.

I agree with this. I remember when my girls were little, purchasing all these lovely math manipulatives and then thinking, "Now what?" I truly had no idea what to do with them at that point. :blushing: I certainly had never used a C-rod before in my life. I was raised entirely on (poorly taught) procedural math, and I was still struggling to grasp certain concepts in my 40s. I realized that without more guidance, these manipulatives were going to be little more than expensive toys. These resources were helpful to me in learning how to do "math labs," back in those early days: Hands-On Standards (Grades Pre-K & K) Hands-On Standards (Grades 1 & 2) Hands-On Standards (Grades 3 & 4) Those books taught me how to use the manipulatives to teach basic mathematical concepts. Next topic: Bill, I do think that sometimes, in your zeal, you underestimate the enormous effort that many homeschool moms put out on behalf of their children, over years and years of their lives. You tend to come across as though you think we are all neglectful and lazy, doomed to ruin our children's lives because we don't do things exactly your way. Do you realize you do that? Do you have any idea how offensive and hurtful that is?

To be more specific, I think my list is missing a connection to its present-day faith community, if that makes sense. The list of topics covers things like book structure, reference skills, geographical context, cultural/historical context, literary genre(s), study methods, canonization (if applicable), and original language(s). It's missing a study of its role, place, meaning, and authority in the community that still believes in it and lives by it. What does it mean to live by this text? That isn't really in there much, I don't think. It should be, because in order to understand a text, we need to at least try to understand what it means to a believer of it, a disciple of it. For example, my entire life is lived out in the light of what I find in the Bible. My everyday choices, routines, habits, relationships, hopes, emotions, thoughts, actions, disciplines, prayers, work, rest, and sense of God's personal, loving presence -- these are all profoundly shaped by that specific text, which I do believe is the Word of God. For me, the Bible is not merely a piece of literature to be studied according to "The Seven Methods." No, it is a Book that has authority over me, a book that I believe tells me how I ought to live, and that I try to live out with every fiber of my being. If you look at my list (above), there really isn't anything on there that addresses this. Help me with this one. I'm trying to articulate it in the same style as the other items on that list.

Yes, I think it might be possible to take that list (or similar) and use it to study another text. I don't know what the specifics might be, but I do think it's generic in the main points and fleshed out with specific examples for a study of the Bible (because that's what I know). I felt like I was forgetting something, though. Anyone?

I'll tell you what we've done (so far) that could apply to other texts. Our text is the Holy Bible, both the Old Testament and the New Testament. 1. Learn the structure of the text, according to your faith tradition. [For us, Kindergarten, 1st, 2nd, 3rd grades] The basic structure of the Bible (for us) is: Old Testament (39 books) + New Testament (27 books) = 66 books Students learn to sing, recite, and correctly spell all the names of the Bible books. The Old Testament (for us) is divided into the following groups of books:Books of the Law (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) Books of History (Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther) Books of Hebrew Wisdom & Poetry (Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs) Books of Prophecy"Major Prophets" (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel) "Minor Prophets" (Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi) The New Testament (for us) is divided into the following groups of books:Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) Historical theology (Acts) Epistles = "a letter sent by an apostle" (simple definitions at this point)Pauline Epistles (Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon) General Epistles (Hebrews, James, 1 & 2 Peter, 1 & 2 & 3 John, Jude) Apocalypse (Revelation) 2. Learn basic reference skills related to the text. [For us, 3rd, 4th, 5th grades] Students learn how to "look up" passages in the text. (Ex.: "Find Psalm 100:4") Students practice looking up passages to become more proficient in this basic skill. Students study the tools within the text itself, just as the TOC, glossary, maps, index, concordance, book introductions, possibly notes. We discuss which parts of the text are "sacred and inspired" and which parts are added by Bible revision committees. ;) Students learn how to use a simple Bible atlas. Students learn how to use a simple Bible concordance. Students learn how to use a basic Bible handbook. Students learn how to use a Bible encyclopedia. Students learn how to use a Bible commentary. Students learn how to use other relevant reference tools and skills. (Ongoing) Consider which (if any) reference skills and tools may be related to the specific text being studied, and apply those at the time. 3. Learn the geographical context related to the text. [For us, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th grades] At this point, we start to do some basic map work on the Bible regions in ancient times -- Mesopotamia (Sumer, Assyria, Babylon, Persia), Egypt, Israel, Edom, Moab, Lebanon, Syria, Asia Minor, Greece, Rome, and so on. Where on the map do we find ____________? What is near that? Who were their neighbors? What routes go through there? And so on. We also take a look at topographical maps, because these often reveal what "flat" maps lack. For example, why does the psalmist say "go up to the house of the LORD?" The topo map shows us that Jerusalem was on an escarpment, so to get there from any direction, you literally go up. (Ongoing) Consider geographical aspects related to the specific text being studied, and apply those at the time. 4. Learn the cultural context(s) related to the text. [For us, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th grades & up] Study the agriculture, animal husbandry, clothing, housing, cooking, trades, and daily life of Bible-era people. Study the family patterns, education, hospitality, wedding traditions, birth traditions, funeral traditions, and other relational aspects of Bible-era people. Study the calendar, festivals, fasts, religious symbols, religious structures, and traditions of Bible-era people. (Ongoing) Consider cultural context related to the specific text being studied, and apply those at the time. 5. Learn the literary genres within the text and how to read these genres. [For us, 7th, 8th, 9th grades] Students explore each biblical literary genre and learn some generally accepted "rules" for how to read it:Choosing a translation Epistles Hebrew Narrative Acts Gospels Parables Law Prophets Psalms Wisdom Revelation How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth, by Gordon Fee is probably the accompanying text we will use when we solidly reach this point (7th/8th grade?). The list of topics (above) is taken directly from Fee's table of contents. 6. Learn some of the story behind the text, that is, its composition and canonization. [For us, 8th, 9th, 10th?] Again, we are not at this point, except for a basic overview of "How the Bible Came to Be." As the girls mature, we hope to investigate how the specific books of what we call "The Holy Bible" came to be considered so. What were the church councils that related to canonization? Who were the key persons? What were the arguments for or against something? What other viewpoints were there? What did other people say? I also think that this is possibly the time to reveal some of the "messiness" of a scriptural text. What do detractors and skeptics say? What are the arguments against this text being "the Word of God?" What do we have to say to those arguments, if anything? What are you willing to accept on faith, and what needs a different kind of evidence? How do you know that this text is what you've always believed it to be (e.g., God's inerrant and inspired revelation of himself and his plan of salvation)? How do we move beyond a "memorized answer" approach to the serious questions people raise about the Bible? Are you able to build your life on that belief? What are your options? 7. Learn systematic study methods for the text being considered. [Possibly 8th-high school?] We have a resource I want to use at this point, to work on these skills, I just can't remember the title. Edited to add: I found it! A Treasury of Bible Information: Survey of the Bible, by William Hendriksen. https://www.christianbook.com/survey-of-the-bible/william-hendriksen/9780801054150/pd/9674?event=ESRCG Understanding and Applying the Bible, by Robertson McQuilkin might be a place to start. Also, at this point, I'd like to explore various other methods of Bible study:Topical Study (a particular keyword, e.g., "hospitality") Character Study (one person, e.g., Moses) Chronological Study (events in order of occurrence) Book Study (a single book or set of books, e.g., Ephesians) Word Study (investigating the uses of a particular word) 8. Learn the original languages of the text being studied. [TBD] For us, these would be Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek. We may or may not attempt either or both of these. At this point, we are steadily working on Greek roots and the Greek alphabet. Nothing with Hebrew at this point, and no formal study of either biblical language. Perhaps someday?

:iagree: I'm not sure I'd want him for my child's piano teacher. He's not really much of a role model, is he? That's like a coach telling the players at the game, "I've decided that this game is cancelled because Joe isn't here. The rest of you can all go home now." How immature. What's the point of being on that team? Of course, if we had had teachers like that in school, imagine the possibilities. :D "I've decided that there will be no test today, because Susan isn't here to participate. The rest of you who studied can all go home now." :rolleyes:

I only have three students (at two levels!), and I'm still finding this to be so true, in particular with CLE grammar. I've had to slow it down, do the work with them, use the extra practice pages and diagramming practice, review and question their understanding, and actively teach the material. Some of this may be because we are new to CLE LA this year, but I can see that it is going to require me to carefully, patiently teach it. I've gone back to studying FLL (for the script) and R&S (for the diagramming) in my spare time! ;) Honestly? I don't know how you moms of many do it. There are days when actively teaching (and mothering) these three takes nearly all day. Well, most days, really. If we had younger children in the mix, we would have to work it like Eight does -- littles in the morning, while the olders read, then work with the olders the rest of the day. Maybe some of the needed wisdom lies in choosing materials that work, and some of it is in how we configure the day, and some of it is in being disciplined and diligent over a long haul? If we can get all of that perfectly balanced, then perhaps it is doable (but hard work). If not.... Even so, if I had four, five, six kids, I would expect my days to be very, very long -- longer than they already are. If my youngest two weren't twins, or if they were on totally different levels for English and Math, that would add to the teaching load. If we had a third grade level, a fourth grade level.... yeah, it would add up. We do all of our content studies -- Bible, Science, Literature, History, Geography, Bible Memory Work, Junior Bible Quiz, Hymns, Composer Study, Music Theory, Artist Study, Art & Handicrafts, and some French -- as a group. I'm trying to imagine having multiple levels for content subjects, in addition to grade-level work. :svengo:

PM'ed you. HTH.

I agree with Lori D. -- for the most part, the instruments in a band are also in an orchestra. A few possible exceptions would be the saxophone (not usually in an orchestra) and perhaps some percussion instruments. I've looked for a band book, too, in years past. I never found one, either. :( We did enjoy listening to The Story of Classical Music, by Darren Henley (on CDs, read by Marin Alsop). She was pleasant to listen to, and the recording was well-done, IMO. We also enjoyed Famous Composers (same author, same reader) and More Famous Composers (same author, same reader). Also well-done, but there was a bit of overlap from the TSoCM CDs. Still worth listening to, though. HTH.

I have to get our day started, but I want to come back to this (I have an idea). I'll PM you. :grouphug: Be encouraged. I don't think you're failing them! If you're working on Math, Composition, Grammar, and Bible consistently; and building General Knowledge in various ways; and building practical skills (chores, cooking, sewing, electronics); and they get healthy meals, clean clothes, and some form of exercise; and your little ones are safe and loved -- then you do have your bases covered. :grouphug: One more thought before I go -- WWS is tough, IMO, but worth the work. My daughter (Sugar Lump) went through WWE 1-3, but she still at times needs me to break it down and work with her, or she could become frustrated (it's happened). I study the assignments ahead of time, and provide the support I think she'll need to "get" the assignment. It has been rewarding to see her confidence grow as she gains specific skills and concepts. Stick with it. If necessary, back up to WWE 4 (or alternate weeks between WWS 1 and WWE 4), and their writing skills will grow. HTH.