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Showing content with the highest reputation on 06/07/2021 in all areas

  1. I don't think loving someone who does not conform to my moral code (and there are many people whose behavior does not conform to my moral code in various aspects) is about putting personal allegiance above moral conviction. I think it is about following the highest of my moral convictions--love God and love my neighbor. I don't love people in spite of my moral code. I love people because of it. The rest of the moral code is secondary and their morality is ultimately not for me to judge. (This doesn't for me mean that I don't make efforts to shore up areas of morality as I perceive them, nor does it mean that I have to actively support or celebrate everything a person does in order to love them.)
    18 points
  2. Why is it ok to tell someone we expect them to have lifelong celibacy? Like, as a very straight person, I find the idea of personally kissing a girl unappealing. If that was the only option I had because I lived in a homo-normative world, I would be consigned to loneliness or lying to a female partner that I found her attractive. Why is that ok? It’s not. Y’all are horrified by the idea. Why do we put these same constraints onto our gay fellow church goers? Being gay isn’t a choice.
    16 points
  3. Um. Say what now? No matter what my moral conviction about the choices other people make, my Christian duty is to act in love towards them. That does not mean I have to agree or accept or condone it. But I do have to love them. Sometimes love hurts and requires sacrifice. Sometimes they may not think I’m acting in love.
    16 points
  4. It is very, very unloving to ask someone you "love" to live their lives without romantic love, coupling, partnership, and a lifelong commitment if that is what they want, just because of who they are "as a fundamental part of their nature" ,as that romantic relationship does not cause harm to anyone else.
    15 points
  5. I no longer have a moral code informed by religion, but instead one that is broader and has evolved over time. I actually think for me it is healthier because so am beyond the ranking of people by the laundry list of the church, and see people in more nuanced ways. No matter what, personal allegiance has no bearing on what I think is right or wrong. But, I view basic civil rights, basic human rights to be so important that it informs how I treat and think about people. I can love someone and even enjoy time spent with them without the need to rank them or approve/disapprove of their decisions unless those decisions have a very negative effect on me or my immediate family in which case, I can love from afar, but not include in my day to day life. I think the Bible makes for a very poor guidebook on morality. For example, telling Israel to massacre/genocide a group and steal some virgins, stone a mouthy son, and if a woman doesn't scream and someone hears it when she is raped, then stone her. Appalling! Consensual sex between two same sex adults, death worthy. Kidnapping and rape? Just fine! No thanks. I will pass on that.
    15 points
  6. And how do we rank sins? We are all sinners? Why do accept people who commit some and not others? Who do we let do their ranking? I know a lot of people who don’t care well for the poor or who are proud in heart and yet they seem a lot more welcome in church than people who are gay.
    14 points
  7. Did you watch Star Wars Revenge of the Sith? (The entire series is crap imnsho which is blasphemy to my Dh. But that’s another topic.) I have never seen more than a few minutes of it here and there over the years because it bores me to sleep. But there is this one scene where Padma is fat pregnant and realizing the father of her babies is a child mass murdering psychopath. And she is crying and she tells him. Begs him actually. That she loves him but he is going where she cannot follow and it is breaking her heart. Then the psychopath strangled her just enough to make her pass out but not kill her, like that means he isn’t really all that bad I guess? 🤨 But I’m there with Padma. I love all my people deeply. But if they cross that mortal moral line, I cannot follow them across it. And it breaks my heart for them and me. But there it is. All I can do is tell them I love them but I will not go there with them and I will never be okay with them being on that other side of the line. Because I see no good in that for them. And ultimately, love is wanting the good of another.
    14 points
  8. Yeah, I know lots of Mormons, since I’m a Mormon.
    13 points
  9. Right. In case anyone needs to hear this, if your child comes out to you please, please do not say any version of “Ok. I'll love you anyway”. That “anyway” speaks volumes, it is telling your child they are flawed. It is a rejection of your child no matter how you try to justify it. It is, in essence, “love the sinner hate the sin” and it is not okay. Once again, being queer isn’t entirely about sex. Insisting it is and pretending you can reject just one aspect of a person isn’t ok. It isn’t loving, it is hurtful and devaluing. Even if you don’t believe it.
    13 points
  10. I am not sure I have ever had a "moral code," but reading the Bible and many other holy/spiritual books has helped me to have a more mature understanding of what is moral. If your question specifically relates to gay people (I'm not sure if it does), I was originally educated to believe homosexuality was immoral, but knowing gay people personally and believing what they say, I became convinced that some people are born gay, and that means God made them that way. And my position on that is that God doesn't make mistakes. And Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. So do I put the words of Paul and Moses ahead of God's creation and Jesus' words? No. There are many inconsistencies in the Bible, so I don't have a problem believing that some of the words aren't a perfect reflection of God's mind. As far as loving people, I am unaware of any Biblical reason to not love somebody.
    13 points
  11. Instead of a tangible gift, the kids (and I) host the Annual Father's Day Ice Cream Taste Testing Contest! The kids (even now that they are older teens) help find a "prize" for the winner, make posters & decorate with streamers, and print out Official Ballots. My role is to find 5 different kinds of ice cream (nut free!), and scoop 1 large spoonful into a pre-numbered Dixie cups. So each contestant gets 5 Dixie cups, numbered 1-5, and we each take our best guess. You get 1 point for the general flavor, 1 point for the brand name (because we had to make it harder due to Grammy's amazing ice cream abilities), and 1 point for the EXACTLY WORDED name of the ice cream (had to make it even harder). Afterwards we all argue over which one is best, and dish out leftovers to anyone who needs to "check #2 just one more time." 🙂 It's a hoot, we ham it up like crazy, make the dads feel special, and they don't need to store yet another tie or garden tool they don't really need. ❤️
    13 points
  12. Well, if it makes you uncomfortable, don’t answer. 🤷‍♀️ I didn’t take the OP's question as offensive. She clearly understands that there are generational differences and it’s an interesting—and timely—topic of discussion. It’s likely that most Boomers first knew of far fewer queer folks than Gen Zers do—at least that they were initially aware of. Geography plays a role, too, which is why many people included where they lived, as do religious and social circles. I think it’s a terrific discussion because it exposes a lot of posters to angles they hadn’t previously considered. I came out because I believe visibility matters—some people here have said they know *no one* who is queer, and yet…they probably do. Sometimes it actually is the mom next door. Lol. And recent history shows us that when queerness isn’t an abstract, when “all of a sudden” it’s people we already know and trust and love…it’s not so scary. We are offered an opportunity to reassess the prejudices we were taught, we start to question our religious beliefs, we learn to check our judgements, we open our hearts…and we do better. 🙂
    12 points
  13. I find it more interesting that they equate heterosexuals choosing celibacy to homosexuals being required to be celibate. One famous story I’ll never forget from this board long ago was one poster equating her mom’s celibacy at one point in her marriage (despite already having children and grandchildren!) to what her church required of gays (no sexual stuff of any type at all ever). I think people want to try and equate things that are basically similar in name only because it makes it not seem so bad or so hard.
    12 points
  14. I do think I get what you're saying, but I also do think it's interesting to discuss this because there has been such a societal shift over the decades/generations. A lot of people I went to school with have since come out as gay, who weren't comfortable doing so then. So, peers, but in the early 90s, none of them were open about it. Fast forward a decade or two, and things have shifted enough that they're comfortable being open now. Which is a thing to celebrate -- not in a "pat me on the back, aren't I awesome that I know so many people in this category" way, but in a "isn't it amazing that we've reached a point in society where it's actually pointed out as awkward to ask about "openly gay" because of how ridiculous that sounds now" way. So maybe the OP didn't ask the right question, or maybe the timing is off for asking during Pride Month, but it IS noteworthy, at least to me, that more people are comfortable being "out" than were before, and that the need to stay closeted is going down so much. Which, isn't that also kind of the point of Pride Month?
    11 points
  15. Yes, I have changed my mind about moral and religious issues over time, but not because of stances of my children. But, let's talk about things Scripture really hates. You know what God apparently hates? Mildew. If we get mildew, we aren't supposed to get tilex. We're supposed to call the priest and if we get mold a second time, we are supposed to tear down our house and throw the stones outside of the town. I have decided that this is not a core part of Scripture that I need to follow. As an Episcopalian, I've never been a sola Scriptura person. I actually really like the Wesleyan quadrilateral of balancing Scripture, tradition, reason, and experience in developing my moral compass. And my moral compass has decided that tilex is a better way of dealing with mold than calling up Pastor Dave. Scripture also really hates wealth, but I have interpreted that in terms of tradition, reason, and experience to allow living in a household where my husband has a pretty decent job and we have some savings. I imagine that God loves us at least as much as I love my children. Any command that requires me to act towards my fellow man in a way that is less loving than how I feel towards my children feels like it's breaking my moral code. I am a Micah 6: 8 Christian. I totally pick and choose how I interpret Scripture, and the lens through which I read the Bible is through the idea that grace is relentless and that God wants us to love Him and to love each other. When I am eventually judged, I am okay with being judged for having loved too much.
    11 points
  16. I think part of the problem is that some people on this thread seem to equate being gay only with sex. It’s just so.much more nuanced than that. And by fixating only on sex (which, tbh is pretty creepy) is to dismiss all the layers and complexities that go into a person's orientation. So by saying sure I can love you but don’t love who you are as a person is ummm… not something that can go over well.
    11 points
  17. Thank you for sharing this. My daughter is bisexual/leaning lesbian. Her "coming out" to us was somewhat anticlimactic, because we have no religious or moral baggage attached to non-heterosexuality, and I had basically known she was not straight from the time she was a child. I do not intend to minimize her experience, because I do know she struggled with it, but there has never been any friction on our end of this. However, as she has matured and become part of the LGBTQ+ community, she has gathered into her circle so many young adults who carry so much pain and trauma resulting from how their loved ones reacted to their coming out, and it just hurts my heart every time I hear these stories. These young people have lost families, friends, churches . . . They make do with grudgingly doled out "love" in diminished relationships limited by other people's determination to prize their own moral purity above what I consider the primary purpose of being human, which is to care for and about other living beings. Love that attempts to control someone else doesn't feel like love to me. And beliefs that require one to inflict pain on another human are, I believe, inherently pretty flawed. We all evolve and learn from our experiences. At least I hope we do.
    11 points
  18. It's one of the world's great mysteries that so many bright women seem to.
    11 points
  19. My views about what is moral have changed. I used to believe that homosexual activity was a very serious sin. My mind was changed by knowing gay people and realizing that they were not different from heterosexual people. I also began to understand that "love the sinner, hate the sin" was still bigoted because how could I "hate" something that was a fundamental part of person and claim to love them? I also began to question how something could be a very serious sin when people were made that way. I've been thinking about this recently. I'm not sure how the 'traditional' Christian church continues without accepting homosexuality. I had a conversation with DD tonight. She went to a slumber party a few days ago with a group of 10 and 11 YO girls from Catholic school. Three of the girls claim to be bi-sexual. DD said they talked about pronouns. Morality has shifted. I see traditional people doubling down in reaction to this but how do you keep your kids away from this unless you completely isolate? And what I've seen over and over again is that when homosexuality is personal instead of abstract, people accept it. This isn't the first evolution of morality. Who cares now about divorce? When Ronald Reagan ran for the presidency in 1980, it was a big deal because he was divorced. Who cares today? Does anyone look down on people who are divorced and re-married?
    11 points
  20. I have changed my mind on moral stances over time. - I had some major changes when I accepted the Christian worldview in the first place -- having previously been a make-my-own-rules teenager. I gave up on some previous moral standards, for example: It's okay to try to cheat people because it's their job to stop you, and that's fair because it respects both people's freedom. - As a later adult I have shifted my views on the morality of various 'hot topic' but theologically 'nonessential' ethical issues. My shifts include... towards believing that the corporal punishment of children is unethical, away from believing that abortion should be illegal, and away from the belief that homosexuality and transgender 'lifestyles' are immoral. - As my kids become adults, I anticipate a tension developing regarding premarital sexual relationships and activities. I still think that those are immoral choices, but I have plenty of people around me that I love and respect who aren't living within those limits. My kids might go that way. I think that will be hard, but I can draw on my previous experiences of being unjudgmental in less close relationships as a foundation for not being a jerk. - In the future, I anticipate (based on some current pressure within my heart) that I need to begin to shift away from a few things that I am currently morally okay with. I feel the unspecific beginnings of a shift in my attitudes and practices in terms of my personal wealth and my commercial participation in economies of oppression. I also sense that my values and my actions are not well aligned in the ways I use fossil fuels, generate pollution, and create waste in the world (or have others generate it on my behalf). - I also sense that I have a ways to go in terms of unconscious racial bias and support for systemic racism. I consider moral development to be a lifelong process, and, as uncomfortable as I am with that feeling of having-been-wrong-before, I need to make space and give myself permission to grow. Ethics aren't a one-time-deal for me.
    10 points
  21. SEX belongs behind closed doors. Who you are attracted to does not, or no one would ever go on a date at a restaurant, theater, or other public place. Or have photos of their spouse on their desk, etc. Saying I had clients that were in same sex relationships is not anymore intrusive than saying I know heterosexual couples.
    10 points
  22. I’m better. I’m home from work today, but I expect to go in tommorow. My boss has already texted me because he didn't succeed in processing someone's payment on our LawPay account. 🙄 My back still hurts, but less than it did. Im not having too much else in the way of generally feeling poorly. Thanks for asking!
    10 points
  23. This reminds me of something my dad used to tell me, and which has always influenced my understanding of morality: Your right to extend your fist ends when you reach my face. (or, someone else's). Homosexuality harms no one, but asking such a person to ignore and stifle and closet their very being, does. For me, I will always choose not to inflict harm.
    10 points
  24. Thank you for saying this. The only LGBTQ+ people I know who are "hurting" because of their orientation are feeling that hurt based on the actions of others who feel it necessary to "hate the sin."
    10 points
  25. For me, the thinking goes like this: In reading the Bible, particularly the New Testament, and especially Jesus' words in the gospels, Jesus makes it exceedingly clear that His command is to love one another. Over and over and over again, He tells the disciples -- (paraphrasing) Look, I'm leaving, I won't be here to love people, so your job when I leave is to love people. So that they will know Me. In the book of John in particular, He really hammers this home to them. Elsewhere He says that the greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, strength, and the second is like it, to love our neighbor as ourselves. So, #1 priority -- Love God. But then #2 priority -- Love Others. And according to Jesus, all the law can be summed up *and fulfilled* in those two things. So how that plays out in my life: I live my life, as best as I can (with admittedly plenty of mistakes, I'm sure), according to God's word. I try my best to have my actions, my life, my decisions, follow the word of God. I interact with people, as best as I can (with, again, plenty of mistakes I'm sure), as I feel that Jesus would have. I determine that by reading His word, looking at His actions, looking at what He said for his disciples to do. In each case that I've read and seen in the Bible, He loves people first. And then He tells them to leave their sin behind. But only *after* He's loved them. Met their needs of the moment. Fed them. Cared for them. Healed them. And then, unless the gospels just ignore it and leave this out, He doesn't hound them, follow them, and govern their morality. He *first* meets their physical needs and relates to them as people. And *then* He mentions their need to turn away from sin. And yet, when He was leaving, He says that he sent the Holy Spirit to judge and convict of sin.....and He tells the disciples that *their job* is to love people. In fact, He says a lot that His job isn't to judge, but to love. That He's not here to judge, but to love. And with him leaving, that is what our job becomes -- to love. So, that is what I do. I don't compromise my morals, or feel that personal allegiance is above/more important than my moral convictions......because one of my moral convictions, perhaps the largest one, is that I'm supposed to love my neighbor. So, what that boils down to: If a person in my life, for example, goes out and gets drunk every weekend....I can be their friend, but I won't give them fine wine or a favorite beer as a Christmas gift. On the other hand, though, if I invite them to my house to watch a football game or something, I won't forbid them from having a beer with us. I won't drink more than one, because that's my personal limit (2, if DH & I are sharing both and it's a long day), but I won't keep count of theirs -- my morality governs my actions, not other people's. If a person in my life, for example, tells me he is gay....I will say (and have said), "Okay, cool; so, what are you doing this weekend?" and continue on being their friend just as I was before. If I have an event where I'm inviting people and their plus one, I would invite this friend and his plus one. Because loving others means (to me) accepting them. Because (as best I can tell), Jesus' example means meeting people where they are. Meeting their physical needs. Ministering to them, loving them. And because (as best as I can read/interpret it), He then said that convicting of sin is the job of the Holy Spirit, not the disciples (us). So I would invite this person over. With their plus one. How do I reach this conclusion: For me, it's like this.....I sub in a "normal" sin. For example, how would I treat a Dallas Cowboys fan*?? I would endeavor to treat them like anyone else, and realize that we all have our flaws, sins, etc, but I won't hold that against them, even though for me & mine, that violates Rule Number One of football season. They can come to my house and watch football. They can even wear their jersey. They can't make me wear their jersey, though, or go to a Dallas game. So that's the litmus test I apply to other situations, too. If I wouldn't do to a Cowboys Fan what I'm thinking of doing (or excluding, treating, inviting, etc.) to this other person who has this other sin, then I know I'm being unfair and not loving people how Jesus wants me to. *please know I'm being partly tongue-in-cheek, because I didn't want to sub in any other actual sin b/c I know the definition of sin varies greatly from one denomination, tradition, etc. to another. The Cowboys thing *is* legitimate, though, at my house. And yet, I still used a Realtor who is such a Cowboys fan she has personalized plates and everything. I still rode in her car to view houses -- she wasn't trying to put her plate on my car, so it was a non-issue.
    10 points
  26. Fortunately, my views changed regarding the LGBT community (and other issues) prior to my dc coming out. At some point I just realized I actually didn’t know everything and should err on the side of love instead of judgement. I fully believe God understands this and my faith and relationship with God hasn’t suffered at all.
    10 points
  27. I'm aware of this. But I can't square laying aside all his previous 'sexual sins', evidenced by those children, plus the pre-marriage birth of his latest child, with the Church giving no way for same sex relationships to be accepted.
    10 points
  28. The word we see as homosexual in most English translations of the Bible is the Greek word arsenokoitai. It translates as boy molesters, not homosexual. The problem was pedastery, not homosexuality. For more on this point: https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-“homosexual”-always-been-in-the-bible/ http://religiousinstitute.org/denom_statements/homosexuality-not-a-sin-not-a-sickness-part-ii-what-the-bible-does-and-does-not-say/ I said above I would explain later with re: to what the Bible says v. what the church says.....this is an example of that. So, that was the baby step for me in leaving my faith. From there I went through a complete deconstruction and have talked about that elsewhere.
    10 points
  29. Meet Buzz and Fuzz. Two feral farm kitties who appeared to be abandoned because every adult cat they approached ran away from them and no one responded to their cries of hunger, so the humans had to step in. They are named Buzz and Fuzz because one hisses every time we touch them and my Dad used to call cat hissing fuzzing. 😂 The other one meows, and we ask it "what are you buzzing for now?" I'm guessing they are about 4ish weeks, give or take a day or two, due to the shape of their ears and the ability to eat soft food. So, I am cat momma'ing for a few weeks until they are old enough to go to new homes. They get so stinky and dirty so fast, walking through their food and kitten milk!
    9 points
  30. I think that’s because there is wrong that is wrong (stealing, murdering, assaulting) and there is “wrong” that is part of a moral code that can change with greater understanding. It’s easy to think something is arbitrarily wrong when you’re not actually acquainted with it and it has no bearing on your life. Then when confronted with it, you can see it more clearly and your view might naturally change. Some people think interracial marriage is wrong. If they change their mind because they meet an interracial couple, that’s not them throwing their moral code out, it’s them realizing they were wrong and didn’t really understand the thing. Through all this “love the sinner hate the sin” discussion, I think it’s the very fact that being gay is considered a grave sin that makes it almost impossible for the person to truly feel loved. It’s simply not the same at all as comparing it to them having committed a crime or other moral evil against someone, and when people compare it to that, it just makes it worse for the person who is gay. I keep thinking of interracial marriage as the best analogy I can come up with. If you are white and marry a person of color and your parents believe the Bible tells them clearly that people of different races should not intermarry. It’s unlikely to be much comfort that your parents say they still love you deeply “despite” the fact that you are committing the grave sin of being married to a person of color. By rejecting the most important, precious thing in your life (your marriage), they might as well be rejecting you.
    9 points
  31. Also, considering love to be a “sin” just not something I can wrap my brain around.
    9 points
  32. I just wanted to acknowledge this and say that I'm glad you felt safe being out here. Even with all the back & forth going on in this thread.
    9 points
  33. This kind of thread always makes me wonder if people would be better and kinder if they didn’t have God and the Bible to blame things on or if god and the Bible are actually reining them in and they’d be even worse people without them. SMH
    9 points
  34. It’s pretty common for others to see us more clearly than we see ourselves though. I wouldn’t worry about it. I'm only “officially” out to DH and my high school BFF (and now here— #brave), and they both already knew. I mean, looking back it's always been so obvious. 🙂
    9 points
  35. I think that was what I was saying, Scarlett. Look, I don’t owe you the details of my life. I told you how I got there—looking to the higher commandments helped me let go of the rigidity of it all. ———// You’ve put a lot of conditions on the support you offer people who make choices that conflict with your views on morality. As in, they must meet your morality standards or you don’t support them. Why? Sincere questions. Do you think god is going to cut off your salvation if you do so? Are you afraid of losing standing in your community? Are you so sure that your position is right and theirs is wrong? What are you gaining from that? Is your sense of self so fragile that that it can’t handle the incoherence of disagreeing with a thing and supporting a person? I truly don’t understand it. A (now ex-) friend kicked out her teen child when they came out as gay. I think she is an awful person for doing so. She thought she was being consistent in her moral views.
    9 points
  36. 50-90% of students in Catholic schools are non-Catholic? DD's future school is probably almost 100% Catholic students. Every kid who was at that slumber party was Catholic. How do you say to someone that you love them but tell them that they cannot act on something that is a fundamental part of who they are? You are asking them to be celibate their entire lives. To live without a family. Gay people don't consider that to be love for them.
    9 points
  37. You don't hear of openly straight because straight is the default, even now. "Openly gay" became a common phrase because being gay was regarded as something to be hidden, and being open about it was dangerous. No one remarks on someone being openly straight, because it has always been both safe and accepted to be straight. If you never have to go in the closet, you never have to come out.
    9 points
  38. I have a transgender (ftm) son in his early 30s. Fortunately as child, I briefly knew a girl who would have been diagnosed today as transgender. Thus, early on by preschooler age, I recognized some subtle and more blatant clues in my son. When I would attempt to explain to other mothers, they would blow it off as "being a tomboy" which it clearly was NOT. I stopped discussing the matter with people. Reading posts on this board about trans people is what drove me away for a number of years. I am encouraged by the acceptance and compassion that many extend to people these days who identify as LTBTQIA. My son has lived as male since age 15 although he did not begin hormone treatment until 18 and got mastectomy for college graduation gift. My just-married 30 year old daughter just announced that she is non-binary. Gee thanks, another newfangled term to learn 🙂 ; whatever became of gender-fluid? Again, there were signs throughout life that her gender flowed on a spectrum so no surprise there. Happily, she is married to a wonderful, compassionate, supportive, highly intelligent young lady. Since two of my children are trans and NB, naturally I know quite a few of their LTBTQIA friends, many of whom are like extended family members.
    8 points
  39. Yes, I change what I think of as my moral code ALL THE TIME. There's a line from a song in Beauty and the Beast I really identify with that goes something like, "I was innocent and certain, now I'm wiser but unsure." One example... I used to really like the Duggars. 10 years ago I defended them on this board and thought the people critical of them were being far too radical. I slowly realized how much they whitewashed the cult they are in, and how truly terrible and abusive it is. I assumed because my faith had been mostly good that it was (mostly) good for everyone. I was truly naive about how AWFUL their cult is for most people. And I totally missed the whole aspect of their religion that said it wasn't okay to question their rules. Questioning rules is the very heart of Protestant faith. If you can't question it, and get thrown out and isolated if you do, it's a cult. I've gone through various changes in my judgment about many things over the years. Usually because I learned about nuances I wasn't aware of before.
    8 points
  40. I have changed my views of sexual morality, but not because of my kids. It was partially driven by knowing gay people, which caused me to feel empathy which I never had before. I was shocked to discover that there were Christian scholars who didn’t agree with my church’s teachings on homosexuality. I read. I listened to others. I empathized. I changed. It had nothing to do with personal allegiance.
    8 points
  41. Okay. let’s say my kid says they are homosexual. Well. I’m going to tell them I love them, God loves them, I don’t see a healthy future in this decision and I will help in any way possible for them to handle this struggle. But I’m not going to accept or welcome them having homosexual sex. let’s say my heterosexual sexual kid runs off with a girl and shacks up with her. Well I’m going to tell him I love him. God loves him. I don’t think this is a healthy relationship decision, and I’ll support healthy decisions for them as best I can. But they are not going to get to share a room when we go on a family vacation and I’m not going to call her my daughter in law when she isn’t. I will pay for premarriage counseling though. let’s say my daughter has an abortion. I’m going to tell her I love her. God loves her. I’m sorry she felt that was her only option. I’ll pay for counseling and I’ll encourage her to go confession and Rachel’s Vineyard. I would not go with her to get one. I would not support that horrible act.
    8 points
  42. You can tell your kid to stop being stupid and robbing banks. And in the next breath, you tell them how much you love them. You don't ever have to embrace the sin to keep loving them.
    8 points
  43. No. But my moral code doesn't have to be everyone's moral code. I love my kid regardless of his beliefs. I love my neighbor regardless of his beliefs. Actually, that is my moral code--to love my neighbor (insert anyone here) as I love myself and love God with everything I have.
    8 points
  44. So, if you were entitled to an insurance or FEMA repair costing tens of thousands of dollars or more and you believed it was truly on its way, you'd feel comfortable leaving that money on the table and taking it from your grandchild? Because there's no way in hell my grandmother would have done that. She was pretty docile about a lot of things, but taking money from her grandchildren would have been a hard no for her and I suspect that's true of a lot of that older generation. If I had to maintain my household here and have a household in NYC and had to have security on both, that salary would barely cover it. Since she's single and not a family of four like I have, I'm sure she's doing okay, but that's not an especially impressive amount to me in terms of disposable income. Like, I'm sure she could have figured it out if grandma had wanted the money in the first place. But this isn't a situation to me like if Jeff Bezos's grandmother was waiting for repairs. Because he clearly has so much disposable income that it would be obscene. This is not anywhere near that scale.
    8 points
  45. Sigh. We don't announce (or assign or find out or observe) a gender. The baby's SEX is observed. Gender is what society piles on top of that simple fact. Eg 'gender reveals', pink for girls, saying 'who's a big strong lad' to boys and 'oh, she's so sweet' of girls (In the bad old day, some babies were assigned a sex, due to ambiguous genitalia at birth/during infancy. Thankfully, this doesn't happen as frequently anymore because we have a wider range of techniques to determine the sex of an infant, even one with a difference of sexual development.) But babies without a DSD have their sex, not a gender, observed at or before birth.
    8 points
  46. I feel it's important to clarify that this is not a surefire sign of someone being gay 😂
    8 points
  47. Yes, but I think it's also possible for people to believe that they are loving another but it isn't actually love. Are we loving someone when we reject a fundamental part of who they are?
    7 points
  48. That’s part of the logic that brought me to the place of thinking gay marriage should be accepted. Let them get married and that’s no longer true. I believe the negative statements about homosexual acts in the Bible are because at that time, it was associated with prostitution and promiscuity. They are very similar to statements about other kinds of fornication. There was no concept of committed gay marriage. I always wonder if people would have an issue with gay marriage if the couple pledges to be celibate. The Biblical objections I’ve heard are all based on the sex being the wrong thing about it. Some gay people are asexual. Would it be different for them to marry?
    7 points
  49. But does she really love him if she doesn't accept him and she hurts him?
    7 points
  50. I don't want to get into my personal struggles, but I have faced some decisions in recent years that have stretched my faith. I have a moral code that is based on the Bible, and that can't change no matter how I personally feel about it or want to feel. It would be "easy" to change how I feel about things to go with the flow in some ways, but then I am not being true to myself or to God. Some things are right and some are wrong. It doesn't mean that I don't pray about it, study about it, and seek guidance from trusted friends and fellow Christians. But, I will not change my morality because my child goes down a path that I can't support. I still love my child, and my child knows that. We still have a very close relationship, but agree to disagree about certain things.
    7 points
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