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Showing content with the highest reputation on 02/17/2019 in all areas

  1. When someone uses words like "inappropriate," "degenerate," and "destabilizing to society" with reference to the way women dress, there is definitely a moral judgement there, whether it's meant to apply to individual women or not. When the choice to dye one's hair or wear make-up and fashionable clothes requires justification, but going gray, makeup-free, and wearing frumpy clothes is seen as the "age appropriate" choice, then, yeah, there is a judgment there. Regarding the prior post about how you'd really dress if you could, you can do quite a lot of that without even looking weird! ModCloth sells dresses with 3/4 sleeves and full skirts, or you could make your own. Make them ankle-length if you want to hide hairy legs and socks. Or get some flowy, wide-legged pants. Buy some silk boxers, rock a cape, and get your hair cut in a super short pixie! Look at someone like Iris Apfel — wear whatever makes you happy with total confidence, and you'll look great! (And I would love for someone to try to tell me that Iris's makeup is supposed to make her look like a powerless, sexually available 20 yr old, lol)
    9 points
  2. Oh please. 🙄 She's an example of someone who wears whatever the heck she wants that makes her happy, even though it's well outside the norm, and she obviously could not care less about meeting American standards of youth or sexiness. So yeah I think that's pretty liberating, and it was just something I threw in at the end of that post as an encouragement to Garga to wear what makes her happy. Whether Iris spends money on her outfits or makes them herself is entirely beside the point — I could replicate her whole outfit for about $100 with a sewing machine, paper mache, and a set of paints if that's what floated my boat.
    7 points
  3. Garga, your post made me sad. Wear what you want, for the love of Pete! Life is too short and has enough regrets already without not wearing what you want. Iris Apfel is inspiring because she loves clothes and loves wearing them and for a lot of us who do love fashion and see it as a worthy art, she is amazing. So much of this conversation just makes me sad. I believe women are lovely and our bodies, old or young are a tremendous gift. Why wouldn't we decorate ourselves and aspire to beauty in so many simple ways? Ask the men or women who love you, you are beautiful and lovely and they notice when you believe that too. Cover up head to toe, bare your shoulder or midriff, wear whatever you want to make yourself feel as beautiful as the people who love you already think you are. And let others do the same. Men don't have to do anything to women in this conversation, women are doing all the finger pointing, shaming, and reducing women's choices to a vague and oppressive "society." But all I am seeing is women judging women's choices and trying to hide being tired arguments about biology, sex, and "society" to do it.
    6 points
  4. I think you’re confusing what’s available to buy with what people see actual children wearing. When I pick up my kindergartener from school the girls and boys are wearing jeans and T-shirts. I realize that you’ll dismiss this as individuals making choices, but society is made up of individuals. You can’t just repeatedly dismiss people using their free will to make choices. I read the Beauty Myth years ago when it first came out. Life is not that simple. Women make choices for a variety of reasons
    6 points
  5. I agree — there are fundamental differences here in the assumptions people are starting with, which is hard to get past — especially in the face of implications that anyone who disagrees with certain presuppositions is just too ignorant/brainwashed/unwoke to know better. Some people seem to take it as given that physical characteristics relating to youth, health, and fitness are only valuable to the extent that they signal sexual availability, therefore anything women do that in any way correlates with what younger women do (wear makeup, dye and style their hair, wear fashionable clothes) is by definition an attempt to signal sexual availability, and this is inappropriate (because apparently women over a certain age have no right to feel attractive, let alone sexy). And then having concluded that anything women do that enhances their physical appearance, in any way, is by definition sexual, the further assumption is that these things must have been forced on women by men — because women could not possibly feel empowered by their own sexuality. Which then gets us to the very weird argument that if a woman and man of similar age share a workspace, and they both wears slacks and a sweater to work, the fact that the woman's slacks and sweater may be a little more fitted, and her shoe may have a 1" heel instead of being totally flat, means she is being sexually objectified. And if <gasp> she also happens to wear makeup or dye her hair, the poor brainwashed woman has no idea that she is unknowingly sending the message (which apparently all men can read?) that she is basically a confused, powerless 20 yr old looking to get laid. IMO there is really not much difference between "we men want you to wear sexy clothes because we like it" and "we fellow women think you should not wear anything that might make you look in any way younger, healthier, fitter, or sexier than we think a 40/50/60 yr old should be allowed to look, because men might think you look good." Both of those positions are equally controlling of women's choices, and in both cases the pressure is based on what men want — either providing it or avoiding it.
    6 points
  6. Don't swim in the sea! (Off to find thread so I can read it......). 😂
    6 points
  7. I’m not so sure that women are trying to look young. For the most part, I think women want to be the best they can be at whatever age they happen to be. I’m 55 and I want to be the fittest and most attractive 55 year-old I can be, but I don’t care about looking 35. Just because women take care of their skin, hair, and bodies doesn’t mean they are trying to look young. If they are fit and fashionable, they will probably appear younger than their years, but it’s not that they are desperately trying to cling to their lost youth.
    6 points
  8. Are you a very bad baby? No. I'm good baby. Are you sure? Yes. Because I'm not sure you're even a baby anymore. Yes. I think you might be a toddler. No. A very immature toddler. No. Best baby ever!
    6 points
  9. That is so patronizing — all the other women in the world would agree with you if only they would stop lying to themselves. 🙄 Basically you are saying that since you don't like shaving your legs or dyeing your hair or wearing makeup, yet do those things anyway because you don't feel confident enough to buck those societal trends, you want every other women to give those up so that you won't stand out for your choices. And the fact that most women don't actually share your preferences is because we're too stupid to know that we've been manipulated into choosing things we really don't want. There are plenty of women who don't dye their hair, or wear makeup (including me), or routinely shave body hair (including me), and who really could not give a rat's ass what other people think of those choices, and who are still perfectly happy to let other women make the choices that they feel good about.
    5 points
  10. Target definitely sells boot-cut jeans and sweatpants and long skirts and long bermuda length shorts and board shorts and rash guards. I have a Target red card so it's one of my go-to places to shop for clothes, for me and the kids. Older dd is a manager at a trendy clothing store in the mall. They sell club-wear dresses and skirts, sexy tops etc. but even that store also sells basic non-skinny jeans, flannel shirts, and denim jackets. Younger dd actually likes to shop in the men's department for hoodies and tops, and she also wears hand-me-down sweats from her brother. She only wears jeggings (no regular jeans), leggings and sweat pants. And yes, the teen boys in my classes are wearing skinny jeans artfully shredded. Plus Google Jason Mamoa if you think men aren't objectified and shown wearing few clothes. (not that I'm complaining, you understand).
    5 points
  11. Okay, I'm going to be one of those people some people love to hate and admit that I haven't read the entire thread. But I have noticed a few references to men's clothing, particularly dress clothing, being comfortable, while women have to wear uncomfortable high heels, shapewear, etc. And I just want to ask: Am I the only one with a dh who hates men's dress clothes??? Because mine would rather have a root canal than have to wear a suit and tie, much less a tux. At a wedding we attended last year, I was far more comfortable in my dress, which had a full skirt and a top made of a stretchy, lacy material, than he was in his formal attire (except that I was hot, as it was August and outdoors, but so was he and I chose my dress knowing that I would be hot during the ceremony and could have picked something cooler, as most women there did -- he didn't have a choice. But I really loved that dress!). He despises dress shoes and has never found a pair, no matter how expensive, that he finds comfortable; I changed into flip-flops at the reception and no one was the wiser because of my long skirt. Regardless, he wears dress pants and button-down shirts and dress shoes to work every single day. I wonder how much of this has to do with body type. My dh is an *ahem* bigger guy, and men's styles, simple as they often are, don't fit his body type well. His belt pinches and his shirts are usually too big in the arms and shoulders because the proportions don't suit him (unless he has them tailored, which he's usually too lazy to do). I have the same problem, especially when I have been heavier, as I am now. But as a woman, I have a lot more options. If jeans aren't comfortable, I can wear leggings and a tunic, or a cute dress. It's hard for me to find styles that I feel good in sometimes, but I have many more choices than he does.
    5 points
  12. You keep reducing women’s motivation to a simple x=y. Some people run and do experience a runner’s high. Plenty of runners never do. This is something commonly discussed on running blogs. Many people exercise for a variety of reasons - prevent or reverse type 2 diabetes, prevent or mitigate deterioration due to muscle loss balance loss in old age, prevent osteoporosis, help mitigate hormonal swings in menopause. All of these reasons have been mentioned in exercise threads on this site. None of these reasons have anything to do with sexual attractiveness or men. Women are more complex that that.
    5 points
  13. I don’t think anyone on this thread disagrees that the sexualization of young girls is bad. And I personally don’t understand why any parent would purchase such clothing or allow their daughters to wear it. There are plenty of other alternatives out there. But grown women are not young children. They have a lot more freedom and choices. I’ve never understood some threads when women are complaining about the inability to find modest, attractive clothing. For the life of me, I can’t imagine where they are shopping. It’s easily available on-line and in person. And it’s not that I don’t think there is any cultural or social influence. I just think it’s not very strong for most women IRL in the US today. There are a very wide variety of acceptable choices available for women today. I know my eighty year old mom is jealous of many nurses wearing comfortable cotton scrubs these days. Back when she was a young nurse, she had to wear white nylons, a fairly short while polyester dress, and a perky hat that served no purpose. While what some are describing might be the norm on TV or in pop culture, I think it bears little resemblance to real life for most women.
    5 points
  14. THAT TOOK AN HOUR! I'm exhausted. I've never gotten over 1,000 steps folding laundry. I usually get like 200. Tomorrow is church, fellowship, and packing, Monday is kid's dentist, oil change, and packing, Tuesday is final packing day, Wednesday is pods, Thursday we go to my dad's. I'm never moving again. I'm never going to Disneyland again. I'm never doing anything ever again.
    5 points
  15. What's the quote? "Well, I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong." 😬
    5 points
  16. This is a bit of begging the question by assuming that is what's going on in the question itself. You're assuming the reasoning and then asking why it's happening. Your assumption is that dyeing hair, wearing makeup, dressing a certain way are trying to expand the emphasis on youth and fertility or getting a mate. That assumes a lot to start off with! And so the answers you get back are, "Well, but, I know so-and-so and so-and-so that just like to experiment with hair color, they aren't trying to pretend to be younger," or, "I'm happily married and wear makeup because I like to, not because I'm trying to find a mate!" And you get frustrated. And the people reading the question get frustrated. Because the people that are discussing this with you aren't making the same basic assumptions about what is going on. Also, I even if there were one answer to the question, I don't think it would be the same for older married women and what we see happening with younger kids in competitive dance. So I feel like lumping them together as biologically unavailable is unhelpful and muddying the waters a bit. At any rate, I don't think you are going to get a clear answer to this question because so much of these things are driven by individual preferences and reasons for doing these things even though they happen more in one group than another group. You can still break out subsets of women who don't dye their hair or wear as much makeup as other women, and then you could ask, well why do these women wear more makeup than these other women? There is no one set answer to this socially or otherwise. Everyone deciding to do something to their appearance is doing so for their own individual reason(s). But yet, you want the question answered on a macro level that I don't think exists because I don't think the premise is correct -- I don't think that women as a group are expanding their emphasis or presentation of youth and fertility on children or older women. You're begging the question here by inserting a reasoning for what is happening into the question So then you get a bunch of responses of, well, I know plenty of people who do X and not for the reason you think it's happening. And we all go around the circle again with different levels of frustration.
    5 points
  17. How could women possibly not realize that it is normal for them to have gray hair by the time they’re 60 if they are already coloring their hair in their 30’s and 40’s to “look younger?” By your reasoning, women would be terribly upset by even a few gray hairs, and would immediately start coloring those grays, so I would think that if a woman fears looking older, she is probably quite aware of things like when her hair is likely to go gray. And why does it matter if women think they look better without gray hair? Many women have hair that goes gray in odd patterns or isn’t a flattering shade, so they decide to color their it. Women have colored their hair for a very, very long time, and I see no reason why they shouldn’t change the color if it makes them happy. Honestly, sometimes I think people go out of their way to look for any little reason to make it appear that women are oppressed and that they will do anything in order to be attractive to men. It’s never about what the women want for themselves — and if a woman says she is doing things like coloring her hair because she enjoys doing it, the argument is that she is basically too clueless to realize that she is being controlled by the media or that she is subconsciously doing it all because it’s what men want her to do.
    5 points
  18. Oh come on — if a 50 year old woman with a successful career and a happy marriage dyes her hair and wears a little bit of makeup, she's doing it in order to look like a powerless and confused 20 yr old, because that's what men want from women? Seriously??? A. What makes you think that women in their 40s, 50s, 60s are trying to look like 20 yr olds instead of successful and attractive 40/50/60 year olds? B. Why do you think women in their 20s are powerless and confused??? I would certainly not have described myself, or any of my friends, as powerless and confused in our 20s. Most of us were kicking ass in grad school and building our careers. C. Men's beauty is not judged any less on physical characteristics associated with youth, health, fitness, symmetry, and all the other usual attributed of physical beauty, than women are. Money and power may also be perceived as attractive, generally moreso for men than women, but that has nothing to do with physical looks. I'm sure Jeff Bezos would not have any trouble getting dates, but it's not because women are looking at him thinking "wow that guy is so hot."
    5 points
  19. I too often think that if people would just agree with my basic premise many discussions would be much more fruitful. 😛 😄 (That was good natured and self-ddepreciation and snarky all in one. Meant for levity not as a hostile jab.)
    5 points
  20. The person I know who was like your son was told as a kid, "You know, Michael, not everything has to be turned into a joke." Many decades later, he has had a very high paying job for the last 20 years being super humorous on the radio. Please don't think I'm dismissing your concern -- I'm not! -- but what a gift he has. I think I'd work with him on controlling his jokes and bringing them out at the right moments. Then when he did "hold back," I'd profusely give him atta boys for waiting for the right time. (You might even have hand signals that mean "not now" or "now is fine.") You also might Google Jerry Seinfeld and how he constructs jokes. He's very open about it. Overall, I'd say your son is gifted. Alley
    5 points
  21. It is a 13 min YouTube video and touch on the race to calculus as well. “Published on Jan 23, 2019 School math is a ruthless and ineffectual substitute for the real thing. Students often experience “math as a race” where quick memorization of tools pays dividends and powerful and authentic mathematical behaviors are marginalized – along with the students themselves. Jennifer Earles Szydlik is a Professor of Mathematics at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh, where she specializes in preparing future teachers and studies students’ beliefs about the nature of mathematics. She earned her Ph.D. in mathematics at the University of Wisconsin – Madison with a specialty in mathematics education.”
    4 points
  22. I have never been to any Target or WalMart, anywhere in this country, that did not offer plain, unsexualized jeans, tee shirts, sweatshirts, etc. It is ridiculous hyperbole to insist that there are literally no clothes available in those stores that aren't totally sexualized and inappropriate.
    4 points
  23. Sunday school (late again). Church. Made the kids' lists of "work" to do today. Caught up on social media etc. To do: Lots of work reports out. Cleaning and stuff. Really really need to get back on a yoga kick. Laundry. Might read to the kids so we finish the book we started last fall. Whatever else gets done.
    4 points
  24. I had better progress this past week! I finished Martyn Lloyd-Jones's Spiritual Depression: Its Causes and Cure. Lloyd-Jones describes a number of ways a believer might have become what he calls a "miserable Christian," and he prescribes antidotes for each cause. His words are grounded in Scripture and are very practical. It was convicting at times and encouraging at other times. I also read Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book, which I'd never read. This was both a "check off my TBR list" and a pre-read for the kids. I found it enjoyable enough. I'll give it to DD#2 (she's been requesting it) as her next school book. Currently working on The Turn of the Screw (Henry James). I might go with Math with Bad Drawings (Ben Orlin) if I can start another book this week - it's the newest (most recently published) book I own, even though it's 2018 rather than 2019.
    4 points
  25. We are back from church. It’s cold and rainy out. I think I will make broccoli-cheddar soup for lunch. That sounds yummy!!!
    4 points
  26. It's always better to get this sort of thing evaluated than to wonder and worry that you ought to have it evaluated.
    4 points
  27. Are you seriously saying that no store anywhere near you carries women's pants other than skinny jeans, jeggings, and leggings? Target sells multiple styles of regular women's jeans in a huge range of sizes from petite to plus. In the summer they sell capris, maxi dresses, long-sleeved gauzy tops, and lots of covered-up styles. I don't remember if they sell board shorts, but Macy's certainly does. I have a teen daughter, who happens to like skinny jeans (which are also worn by most of her male friends, BTW), but I also know for a fact that Target sells regular girls jeans, and DD has no trouble finding the oversized hoodies and flannel shirts she likes to wear on top. I'm not buying the argument that women's clothes are so sexualized it's impossible to find "modest" clothes anywhere.
    4 points
  28. Females are not expected to show more skin, they are allowed to show more skin, in the sense that they have a much wider choice of clothing styles than men do if they want to show more skin. It's not as if all women are forced to wear off-the-shoulder sundresses whether they want to or not. For every off-the-shoulder sundress at Target, or any other store, there are about a thousand outfits that are more covered up. What the heck is wrong with allowing women to wear whatever they want and show as much skin as they want?
    4 points
  29. High volume + monotone is fairly common among kids on the spectrum, I think.
    4 points
  30. We could also argue the female form is objectively more beautiful than males. That's what I would argue but it's really neither here nor there. I don't think one slate of Target ads, or even tons of Target ads is indicative of anything. I could go over to BR and find a woman fully dressed in a nice business suit, I would guess. (ETA: Nope, it was bootcut/flared jeans, a sweater, and a leater motorcyle jacket ETAA: a big ad for crew neck sweaters for her). I just truly don't understand what world people are living in where women are expected to show more skin? I live in a world where some females show more skin. I walk around every day about as covered as the males in those Target ads and have no problems doing so. I buy some of my clothes at Target. But advertising pretty sun dresses with shoulders showing is not pinging my objectification/sexy meter any more than seeing David Beckham in a nice suit doing an ad for cologne or something. I truly don't understand. Are women seeing those ads and thinking they have to walk around with bare shoulders? I see those ads and think, "That's pretty, but I need something that I won't get sunburned in," and click over to the t-shirts. Who are the women seeing those ads and feeling pressured to wear exactly what they see even though they don't want to show their shoulders? That is a real problem, but not one of advertising I don't think.
    4 points
  31. The question is, what is it within our culture that leads us to put female bodies on display in ways that male bodies are not put on display. We could I suppose hypothesize that male bodies or male skin are viewed as too ugly or shameful to be made visible...
    4 points
  32. Skin is not evil. And all sorts of lengths of hems and sleeves are available.
    4 points
  33. Church Work on quilt Clean bathroom Stir fry for dinner (maybe sandwiches for lunch?) Soak beans for tomorrow Game night Trying to not do too much and rest today. We have all been busy recently and it is wearing us out.
    4 points
  34. Good morning! We have church and after everything I did yesterday to avoid it, I have to stop at the store on the way home. I'm going to get some of that new fangled lower carb brown sugar Angi was telling me about last night.
    4 points
  35. Good morning! What is it with the price of trash cans? Church. Two kids have a children's choir concert this afternoon. The musical pot-luck dinner has been postponed until next week due to illness. Coffee!
    4 points
  36. Good Sunday Morning! Several of us have coughing, two of the kids have had fever this weekend. 17yo ds went to the homeschool dance last night and dh chaperoned. Youngest and I were out of town yesterday for a swim meet. Moreover, she has an orchestra concert this afternoon. So, I don't think any of us are making it to church today. Coffee is brewing!
    4 points
  37. It’s almost 2 in the morning so you know I’m not lucid, but here is how I would dress/look if there were no social mores:: I would shave off all my hair because my hair is stupid and always looks flat and so I spend a lot of time trying to make it look lively. That works about as well as when you try to get a surly teenager to be excited about something. So, I’d just shave it all off and never have to spend time curling it or putting product in it ever again. And I would save money on haircuts. I would wear a dress made out of silk, because it feels good on my skin, that has a mock turtle neck because I’m siitting here in bed and my upper chest is cold because my pjs have a v-neck and my chest gets cold. The sleeves would be 3/4 length so they don’t get in the way, but also I don’t have to ever feel self-consious if my upper arms are flabby. The dress would go to my knees and have a full skirt so I could twirl and make it go out because that’s just sinkin’ awesome! I’d twirl around outside and no one would care. I’d wear something rather like boxer/briefs that men wear, but more boxer than brief. I’d like a little more room in my undies. No bra because I don’t really need the support, unless I’m jumping around exercising and then a sports bra that fastens in the front so it’s easy to get on and off. I’d be in crew length socks with sandals. If I wear shoes without socks my feet get uncomfortably sweaty and there’s nothing to wick away the sweat and the shoes or sandals get really gross. If I wear enclosed shoes with socks, my feet still get sweaty, but now the socks are wet and can’t dry out. So, I’d wear socks and sandals. And not short socks because I just don’t like them. I’d also sometimes wear a Superman (Supergirl?) cape, just because they look amazing. Maybe when I go jogging I’d wear the cape so it would fly around behind me. No makeup, no hairdye (on my shaved head), and I’d be covered in hair everywhere else, because I am sick of shaving my legs. I’d be sooo hairy and happy. Shaving is such a pain. I’d look like a loon!!! But boy would I be happy. I wish we really could wear what we really, really want without people raising eyebrows.
    4 points
  38. I did all of this, dyed my hair, took about eight bags to the dumpster, loaded the car up with things for people at church and now I'm about to fold six loads of laundry...
    4 points
  39. Exactly — I can think of lots of older women who look stunning with gray or white hair: Jamie Lee Curtis, Helen Mirren, Julie Walters, Cindy Josephs, Judi Dench, and there are quite a few older models now with gray hair who look absolutely beautiful. Helen Mirren is in her 70s and she wears gorgeous clothes and makeup and frankly still looks sexy as hell, gray hair and wrinkles and all. I do not look good with gray hair, I look totally washed out and half-dead, because my natural color is dark blonde and it just looks like a really mousy beige color when it's half gray. I get highlights, so it's a mix of different colors of blonde with a little bit of gray. "Preferring not to look half dead" does not equal "desperately trying to reclaim my youth and looking for a hook up."
    4 points
  40. In other words, if women would just stop dressing like women, then affairs wouldn't happen because men wouldn't be so tempted to screw around? The blame for consensual affairs between coworkers falls 100% on all those sexy temptresses in their navy suits and bow blouses and sensible pumps and nude lipstick, because men just can't help themselves??? How do you think women should dress? That question has been asked at least half a dozen times but has never been answered. Should we impose a generic unisex uniform like Mao did in China — shapeless blue cotton suits and basic haircuts for everyone? Baggy trousers and unfitted, crew neck sweaters that avoid showing any outline of breasts? Do you think that would put an end to sex in the workplace?
    4 points
  41. Well, I still don't accept a lot of the presumptions here, and that seems to be ignored in this discussion so I'm not sure how to get past that. But in any case none of that means that men aren't doing things, different things, than women in order to appear attractive. Just because it's not makeup and high heels doesn't mean it's not happening in different ways. Because anatomy and biology. And just because women are doing those things or wearing certain clothing does not mean they are doing so for reasons that you or I might attribute to a certain standard of dress or makeup. For example, just as anecdote, my husband uses more hair product than I do in order to have his hair look a certain way when he goes to work. When he does it, it's to appear neat and groomed. If I were to do my hair for work, would it be assumed I was doing it because there was some sort of unknown-to-me societal standard influencing me to look younger or sexier?
    4 points
  42. I agree! It’s very insulting to 20 year-olds to think of them as being powerless and confused. How is that a helpful stereotype to promote? How is that a helpful way for women to talk about other women? And the ridiculous assumption about middle-aged and older women wanting to emulate 20 year-olds is just plain ludicrous. Give women some credit instead of acting like they are vapid, shallow idiots! If a man had posted comments like that, he would be raked over the coals.
    4 points
  43. Today was a total bust as far as the to-do list. One load of laundry and things backed up into the tub so no more laundry until the guy comes to fix things tomorrow (pump out). I did another month of Quickbooks entries, so there's that. I spent way too much time following the thread about whether make-up and hair dye mean you're signaling to the world you are sexual available, and it's destabilizing society when women over 50 do it. Or women who work. Or something. I'm not really sure what the point was now. I started reading a book I borrowed from my digital library but I think I want to watch a movie. I just feel tired and unmotivated to do anything. Which is not good considering all I have to do. Maybe I just need more sleep and should go to bed early.
    4 points
  44. While expecting women to dress in a more sexual way might be the expectation in some work environments, say for people on TV or in certain industries, I really don’t think it’s the norm, at least not in my part of the country. I think TV often portrays this to be the case, but I’m just not seeing it in real life. I’m surrounded by people who work in law, medicine, academia, government, business, etc. And I’m just as likely to see a woman in a dress with make-up and heels, as I am to see one in pants with sensible shoes and no make-up. Just like some men are wearing suits and ties and have obviously invested quite a bit in grooming products and haircuts, while others have on jeans or khakis and a collared shirt. And I don’t think anyone disagrees that it’s a bad idea for society to sexualize prepubescent girls.
    4 points
  45. But a nicely dressed, well-groomed man is a sexual object in the workplace, too. Women aren’t blind, and they aren’t immune to the appearance of an attractive man. Whether or not they make any comments about or directly to the attractive man, they still notice him.
    4 points
  46. Likewise, I was also surprised in this day and age of widely available modest but stylish clothing, subdued makeup trends (trying to cover up blemishes without looking made up), flats and Hunter rainboots (galoshes!! Rubber mud boots!!) with outdoorsy shapeless safari jackets being trendy amongst co-eds and moms...that we are thinking Cosmo bikini beauty still takes up any space in people's heads as something theu have to compete with.
    4 points
  47. And for whoever suggested that I would want to insist all women wear long floral dresses or something - I'm not sure where that's coming from? Is it like a sect of conservative Christianity or something? I don't wear floral dresses, I'm not Christian, and I have already stated on this thread that I do bow to a lot of social pressure re: female appearance, and would probably bow to more if I were in a social situation that demanded it (i.e. if I worked outside the home in a professional capacity, or went to many formal events, or were on TV, or something). My refusal to wear makeup at home really means almost nothing. My refusal to wear it to the grocery store is not a huge deal. If I were a national politician in the US, say 65 years old, and I refused to either wear makeup or dye my hair, I'd be an exception, and I'm not personally strong-willed enough to pull that off. (but I'm also not strong-willed enough to be a politician, so that works out for me). I saw an interview between what I think was a leftist woman (she was referencing the patriarchy, so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume leftist) and what I think was a conservative man (he was discussing the purpose of makeup). She was questioning his position on makeup re: blush - why does he think it promotes a youthful appearance, or is intended to represent ripe fruit (redness) or entice men or something. He said to her, look, why do you think women wear blush? She had no answer. He said why do you personally wear makeup? She said well, in my role (I guess interviewer on TV? or intellectual presenter? not quite sure, it was a short clip) not wearing makeup would be a political statement. Wearing it is value-neutral. Now after that he challenged her view of why makeup is required socially and they got off on a tangent with which I disagree, but I thought it was quite interesting that this lady, an intellectual leftist woman who sees male and female relations in the West under the paradigm of an (to her, I think) undesirable Patriarchy, makeup was still something that was value-neutral, socially required, and meant less if you wore it as a woman than if you didn't. What does that say? She clearly doesn't want to attract a mate, she's not trying to look beautiful necessarily, she's not experiementing or having fun or whatever - she just knows it's part of the required uniform for women. Why is makeup, especially makeup that enhances lip color and cheek color, part of the required social uniform for most women in public life? And not only why is it socially required, but what does that mean and what does it do to gender relations?
    4 points
  48. That same advice applies to men as well. Age discrimination for people over 50 is rampant.
    4 points
  49. All the colors. To me, personally, that's the whole point. I love that with the 5 of us, I can mix & match and create different feels for the seasons, etc. Or when we have everyone over, everyone gets a color. Plus if the new color each year is one I like, it's an automatic "no thinking necessary" gift DH can get me at Christmas. My favorites are the various blues, though.
    4 points
  50. Maybe the next time she walks by you can mention that I am taking the kids to the park on Tuesday morning. Would you like to ride along? type thing. She might be craving some socialization or not but this way she could say yes or no thank you. Or if you are outside with the kids ask her if she would like to stop and sit and have a cup of coffee, tea, water, etc. Then she could easily say yes or no and if she says yes she can easily leave when she wants. I think that reaching out to her would be nice.
    4 points
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