Which Hemingway to add to our American Lit list?

[LynnG in Arizona]

I'm putting together our list of American Literature to be covered next year by my rising junior.

 

I am painfully ignorant of Hemingway, other than my high school reading of Old Man and the Sea, which I really hated. My brother - a huge Hemingway fan - assures me that Old Man and the Sea is one of his worst novels.

 

So I'm trying to add one Hemingway novel to our list next year and am looking for suggestions. Since my dd will be doing AP US History next year, I'm leaning toward doing Farewell to Arms, which would be our only WWI-era novel.

 

For the same reason, I'm leaning away from For Whom the Bell Tolls, since it is set during the Spanish Civil War.

 

Would Farewell to Arms be a good choice for us, or is one of his other novels (such as Sun Also Rises) significantly better?

 

Thanks for your input! :)

[Karen in CO]

Are you reading The Great Gatsby? If you are, then there are some themes that can be brought out that are shared between The Sun Also Rises and Gatsby. But then again, if you are, you might have had enough reading about those themes and enough descriptions of drinking and parties and want something different. If your reading list isn't heavy on war type books,then For Whom the Bell Tolls is a great piece. Hemingway is a master at describing scenes, but he does it with such sparse and direct language that it is very powerful. There are some very strong, memorable war scenes in For Whom the Bell Tolls. It is the only book I have ever read about the Spanish Civil war. It does an excellent job of describing why a civil war is different than other types of wars.

 

I would choose based on what type of story you need more or less of in your list. I haven't read Farewell to Arms, so I can't tell you about that one.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Karen in CO

[LynnG in Arizona]

Good point, Karen. We are in fact doing Great Gatsby, and I thought some of the themes in Sun Also Rises might be redundant (based on what I can tell from Amazon).

 

Thank you!

[Jane in NC]

I don't think A Farewell to Arms may be the best selection for high school. (Maybe read a synopsis and you'll see why I am suggesting this.) My son will be reading Big Two Hearted River I & II which is not about WWI per se but about the aftermath (Post traumatic stress). My son likes to fish and hike so I think that he will relate to a young man undergoing a healing process by being in the wilderness.

 

Obviously this is a choice based on what I think my son will enjoy.

 

By the way, I agree with your brother about Old Man and the Sea.

 

Jane

[MamaT]

My 9th grader read A Farewell to Arms this year. It is one of my dh's favorite books.

[LynnG in Arizona]

I don't think A Farewell to Arms may be the best selection for high school. (Maybe read a synopsis and you'll see why I am suggesting this.) My son will be reading Big Two Hearted River I & II which is not about WWI per se but about the aftermath (Post traumatic stress). My son likes to fish and hike so I think that he will relate to a young man undergoing a healing process by being in the wilderness.

 

Obviously this is a choice based on what I think my son will enjoy.

 

By the way, I agree with your brother about Old Man and the Sea.

 

Jane

 

Jane, I try not to read the synopsis too carefully since I will be reading it myself next year with dd. :) Is the plot somewhat mature/inappropriate? Can you elaborate a bit?

 

We tend to be fairly liberal with our teens on that kind of thing. Not that I want them reading p*rn, obviously, but I don't mind mature themes in otherwise good literature.

[LynnG in Arizona]

My 9th grader read A Farewell to Arms this year. It is one of my dh's favorite books.

 

Good to know - thanks! :)

[Jane in NC]

Jane, I try not to read the synopsis too carefully since I will be reading it myself next year with dd. :) Is the plot somewhat mature/inappropriate? Can you elaborate a bit?

 

We tend to be fairly liberal with our teens on that kind of thing. Not that I want them reading p*rn, obviously, but I don't mind mature themes in otherwise good literature.

 

Your comment leads me to believe that you'd rather not have a synopsis so it is hard to elaborate without going in that direction. Suffice it to say that the story concerns both an intense love affair and decisions made in the heat of the war zone.

 

One of my son's friends was assigned this book in 9th or 10th grade. His mother told me that the class found it to be awkward to discuss. Perhaps one on one or a small group would not be as problematic due to the mature content?

[elizabeth]

Hills like White Elephants is a wonderful short story for complex themes and symbolism. We are readng this short story next year as part of our foray into The Lost Generation. It has a wealth of discussion topics for such a brief story . It is for a mature student .

[SusanAR]

We just mentioned The Chrysanthemums (short story) tonight. It is strange, but has a lot of symbolism.

susan

[Laura R (FL)]

Now isn't that funny...my 9th grader's English class read the Old Man and the Sea and she liked it. Now she probably liked it because it was short, lol! I second the opinion about Farewell to Arms...might be awkward.

[Laurie4b]

We read Old Man and the Sea, a short story. I liked it. Ds didn't. LOL! He disliked 20th cent American lit in general though--too dark for his tastes.

[Carol in Cal.]

Can't stand anything by Hemingway at all.

 

For Steinbeck, a good short novel is "The Moon Is Down" which has a LOT to talk about. "East of Eden" is also very provocative.

 

I am not sure why Steinbeck and Hemingway are so conflated in people's minds. They both are 'manly men' who write in short sentences and have big themes and messages. But for reasons that I can't quite articulate, I love Steinbeck and detest Hemingway.

[LynnG in Arizona]

Can't stand anything by Hemingway at all.

 

For Steinbeck, a good short novel is "The Moon Is Down" which has a LOT to talk about. "East of Eden" is also very provocative.

 

I am not sure why Steinbeck and Hemingway are so conflated in people's minds. They both are 'manly men' who write in short sentences and have big themes and messages. But for reasons that I can't quite articulate, I love Steinbeck and detest Hemingway.

 

Good points. I generally love Steinbeck; East of Eden is one of my very favorite novels. (Though I admittedly can't stand Of Mice and Men.)

 

I'm looking forward to giving Hemingway a fresh try with another novel besides Old Man and the Sea. ;)

[Kathy in MD]

Can't stand anything by Hemingway at all.

 

For Steinbeck, a good short novel is "The Moon Is Down" which has a LOT to talk about. "East of Eden" is also very provocative.

 

I am not sure why Steinbeck and Hemingway are so conflated in people's minds. They both are 'manly men' who write in short sentences and have big themes and messages. But for reasons that I can't quite articulate, I love Steinbeck and detest Hemingway.

 

Different strokes for different folks. :D As a tomboy, I always prefered the "manly" themes. I soaked up military biographies and boy's adventure lit starting in grade school. I lived for science fiction. Hemingway was great for my tastes. "Girl" lit was the biggest turnoff.

 

But I can explain why I preferred Hemingway to Steinbeck. Hemingway, though often sad, always had a great heroic theme running through it. Steinbeck was just depressing, with no hint of happiness or a reason for living. His motto must have been, "Life's tough. And then you die." Why would I want to dwell and wallow in that type of attitude? PS. I do know that Steinbeck wrote lighter works, but that's not what I found for years.

[Carol in Cal.]

Different strokes for different folks. :D As a tomboy, I always prefered the "manly" themes. I soaked up military biographies and boy's adventure lit starting in grade school. I lived for science fiction. Hemingway was great for my tastes. "Girl" lit was the biggest turnoff.

 

But I can explain why I preferred Hemingway to Steinbeck. Hemingway, though often sad, always had a great heroic theme running through it. Steinbeck was just depressing, with no hint of happiness or a reason for living. His motto must have been, "Life's tough. And then you die." Why would I want to dwell and wallow in that type of attitude? PS. I do know that Steinbeck wrote lighter works, but that's not what I found for years.

 

I liked manly books, too, although I wasn't a tomboy. I especially like Leon Uris, and A. Drury, as I recall, and Robert Heinlein for light stuff. I read almost as many Mad Scientists' Club books as Nancy Drew. But, then I read a lot of girls books as well. I think that mostly I just liked to read!

 

I felt just the opposite about Hemingway vs. Steinbeck, but maybe it's more because of which books I ran across first. Hemingway just seems depressing, in a "it's manly to be depressed and soldier on to show how virile you are" sort of way. Women are almost completely discounted--they are just props. (I hasten to add, this is based on extremely limited reading--I probably should give him a better chance now that I'm older, and ask for advice as to what to read first. But I don't wanna!)

 

Steinbeck, OTOH, was so idealistic and upbeat! "The Moon Is Down" is one of the most interesting defenses of democratic principles that I have ever read. It is profoundly optimistic, in that it appeals to people's unbreakable spirits. "East of Eden" strikes me more or less the same way. I have read a fair amount of his other work, but those two are my favorites. I liked the one about the power of the trees in coastal range California, a great deal. Same idea--made me think, seemed very optimistic in many ways, and posited drawing great strength from wild nature, even when you're taming it to some extent. "Tortilla Flats", of course, was a complete waste of perfectly good paper.

 

Well, I'm not opinionated at all, am I??? (Smile)

 

I would welcome a suggestion of which Hemingway to read. Hated "A Farewell to Arms" if that is any help. Thought that his glorification of bullfighting as truly manly was really pathetically laughable, in general. He always seems to be trying a little bit too hard.

[Jane in NC]

I would welcome a suggestion of which Hemingway to read. Hated "A Farewell to Arms" if that is any help. Thought that his glorification of bullfighting as truly manly was really pathetically laughable, in general. He always seems to be trying a little bit too hard.

 

Are you referring to the bullfighting in The Sun Also Rises? Or his non-fiction work, Death in the Afternoon? For the sake of clarity, I wanted to mention that there is no bullfighting in Farewell (at least as far as I can remember!)

[Carol in Cal.]

Are you referring to the bullfighting in The Sun Also Rises? Or his non-fiction work, Death in the Afternoon? For the sake of clarity, I wanted to mention that there is no bullfighting in Farewell (at least as far as I can remember!)

 

You're right, I was conflating my various dislikes but didn't mean to make it sound like they were about the same work. No bullfighting in Farewell--I was just listing out things I don't like about Hemingway, mixed together in an ineffective written paragraph that I definitely would not have accepted from my DD as homework. Ah the internet!

[Jane in NC]

You're right, I was conflating my various dislikes but didn't mean to make it sound like they were about the same work. No bullfighting in Farewell--I was just listing out things I don't like about Hemingway, mixed together in an ineffective written paragraph that I definitely would not have accepted from my DD as homework. Ah the internet!

 

I suspected as much but wanted to clarify for those looking over our shoulders and considering which if any works by Hemingway should go on the reading list. Bullfighting is one of those things that just doesn't sit well with everyone.

[Kathy in MD]

I liked manly books, too, although I wasn't a tomboy. I especially like Leon Uris, and A. Drury, as I recall, and Robert Heinlein for light stuff. I read almost as many Mad Scientists' Club books as Nancy Drew. But, then I read a lot of girls books as well. I think that mostly I just liked to read!

 

I felt just the opposite about Hemingway vs. Steinbeck, but maybe it's more because of which books I ran across first. Hemingway just seems depressing, in a "it's manly to be depressed and soldier on to show how virile you are" sort of way. Women are almost completely discounted--they are just props. (I hasten to add, this is based on extremely limited reading--I probably should give him a better chance now that I'm older, and ask for advice as to what to read first. But I don't wanna!)

 

 

It very possibly is what we ran into first. I read the assigned selection of TGoW in our lit book and then The Red Pony. I decided to give him one more chance, because if he's this important he must have writen SOMETHING good. I think my next selection was The Pearl???, and Steinbeck was deep sixed.

 

 

Steinbeck, OTOH, was so idealistic and upbeat! "The Moon Is Down" is one of the most interesting defenses of democratic principles that I have ever read. It is profoundly optimistic, in that it appeals to people's unbreakable spirits. "East of Eden" strikes me more or less the same way. I have read a fair amount of his other work, but those two are my favorites. I liked the one about the power of the trees in coastal range California, a great deal. Same idea--made me think, seemed very optimistic in many ways, and posited drawing great strength from wild nature, even when you're taming it to some extent. "Tortilla Flats", of course, was a complete waste of perfectly good paper.

 

Well, I'm not opinionated at all, am I??? (Smile)

 

I would welcome a suggestion of which Hemingway to read. Hated "A Farewell to Arms" if that is any help. Thought that his glorification of bullfighting as truly manly was really pathetically laughable, in general. He always seems to be trying a little bit too hard.

 

I'm ot sure if I'm the right person to advise you. I enjoyed A Farewell to Arms. My other favorite of his at that age was For Whom the Bells Toll. But that may have been because the intro introduced me to Donne's poem, which I love.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm ot sure if I'm the right person to advise you. I enjoyed A Farewell to Arms. My other favorite of his at that age was For Whom the Bells Toll. But that may have been because the intro introduced me to Donne's poem, which I love.

 

I have just two words for you--"No wonder!"

 

Yes, that is a very hopeless book. Pretty much utterly.

 

You're right.

 

However, you might really, really like "The Moon Is Down". And it's pretty short!

 

I should maybe look for "For Whom the Bell Tolls" and give old Papa H another chance. I do respect your opinion!