Okay...rephrasing...starting WTM in 11th...where to start with Logic? Rhetoric?

[Robin in DFW]

Okay...I'm rephrasing my title!

 

If starting WTM in 11th grade, what should we use for Logic (never had Logic) and Rhetoric? Should she start at the lowest levels or are some of the suggestions for these courses able to be jumped into regardless of previous experience?

 

Dd's writing ability is very good, has a good grasp of how to flesh out underlying themes in literature, etc.

 

I just don't know where to begin in these areas since we are missing some foundational coursework recommended from previous years.

 

Also, would she be okay beginning Vocabulary From Classical Roots with level A and just working as far as she can?

 

And grammar...she's done grammar over the years, but did not for 10th...would like to work on this until graduation...R&S 9 and 10 or Analytical Grammar?

 

I have a decent handle on History and Great Books, just need to organize. Math is taken care of as is Spanish, a technology course, music and PE.

 

Logic and Rhetoric are foriegn to me so I'm finding making a decision for this very difficult.

 

Thanks again,

Robin

[Jane in NC]

The Traditional Logic program would probably work quite well for your 11th grader. Here is a terrific post that Tina in Ouray, our resident logician, made on the old boards. You might want to search for other posts from Tina for more information on curricular materials or approaches in the teaching of logic.

 

My son has used Vocab from Classical Roots with great success. Do you have a homeschool store near you? Or a curriculum fair? This would give you a chance to scan the series to see if you want to begin with A or jump to B or C. If you do not, I can pull A off our shelf to report on its contents. Just PM me for a clearer idea on the vocabulary in some of its lessons.

 

You may also want to pick up a copy of A Rulebook for Arguments. This helped my son tremendously.

 

Best,

 

Jane

[Colleen in NS]

Also, would she be okay beginning Vocabulary From Classical Roots with level A and just working as far as she can?

 

I have books A-E and they seem to go from most commonly used words to least commonly used words, or from concrete words to more abstract words.

[Kathie in VA]

Okay, my first comment is that the word 'logic' has two meanings. There is the logic stage of learning, also known as dialectic stage and there is the study of logic (which includes formal and informal logic). Now just because you didn't specifically teach to typical logic stage goals doesn't actually mean your dc doesn't have these skills at all. ;) If you haven't done a formal logic course, then it's okay to do one now. It can be done at the same time as the study of rhetoric (at least that's what I read somewhere).

 

Check the WTM on the logic and rhetoric stages and what is done at those points for history/lit. You might be surprised to learn that you dc can do at least some of the logic type work and maybe even some of the rhetoric work as well. If you are going to follow the WTM for history/logic then you will have all the flexiblity that you'll need to bounce the stages at first.

 

Also check the WTM for the 'starting in the middle' or 'starting late' chapters...

 

For formal logic, Traditional Logic I and II could be done within one year... and it's a good, popular pick here. The other course some choose is Introductory Logic. TL focuses more on the logic of language and the IL focuses more on symbolic logic. If you want to hit on informal logic you can do the Art of Argument (workbook form) or something like Fallacy Detective. We did Fallacy Detective aloud together, it was fun that way and made for a nice break. Thinking Toolbox is on my shelf, hopefully I'll get to it soon.

 

Voc from Classical Roots is a good program. I'm also looking into Vocabulary for the High School Student books.

 

hths

[Robin in DFW]

You're a gem. No, I mean it.

 

Here's what I "think" is looking do-able...

 

VfCR-begin with A and get as far as we can

 

Traditional Logic I, then move on to A Rulebook for Arguments and follow the Rhetoric suggestions until graduation, completing what she can (with no regrets about not getting it all done :tongue_smilie:

 

Read HOAW and The Civilization of the Middle Ages over the summer for background reading (she did a World History survey this year, but I really want her to read HOAW:D...I'll be reading it, too) and maybe add in 1 novel from each time frame. She loves to read, so this should be easy-peasy for her.

 

Then, use America: A Narrative History Book 1 with other WTM suggestions for 11th plus incorporate American Government rec's (Holt or Idiot's Guide) for that dreaded Gov/Econ credit!

 

She will choose 8 books from the book list in WTM/WEM and we will discuss and she will write. I may try to round up some SparksNotes and a Norton Anthology or two to help us out as well.

 

I may have to copy my own post so I don't forget all this!

 

Thanks for your help!

Robin