could someone with the NEW WTM please tell me

[kate in seattle]

how she reconciles history and literature, or does she?

 

If we take HOAW at about 3 chapters a week, there isn't enough time in the last half of the year for all the 'classic' literature, which is mostly Greek and Roman. Or does one do the literature chronologically and the history independently and end up at about the same place by the end of the year?

 

I have always "hurried" through the earlier history and then slowed down once we had lots of literature to read. How do others handle this discrepency (years of history with little lit and then few years of history with LOTS of lit)?

 

Thanks

[Osmosis Mom]

Well, I read the chapter last night and as I can see then she says to spend 10 hours on history and Great books weekly, either 5 on each or half year doing one thing and then half year the other. She said just to make sure the student is actually reading and writing during the fx. daily 2 hours.

 

Different texts were given for history, saying it was the teacher's job to divide the textbook into amounts but that the student might decide to spend more time on a topic of his interest (and write a longer paper on that). I guess that would deduce that you might not necessarily finish the textbook. She wants exposure and for the student to know how to get info, not to "learn it all" or get exposed to it all.

[Rhondabee]

The History Foundation is to simply read the book (HOAW for Ancients) by dividing the total chapters by the number of weeks you intend to do school. At the end of each chapter, dc should record:

 

1. Dates

2. Names of 2-3 VIP's

3. 3-4 Events, and

4. Two events, people of ideas to investigate further

 

The Timetables of History and the DK History of the World are still being used as before (to provide context info).

 

Later (p. 499), she says not to worry about keeping history reading and Great Books reading "somehow parallel...the student will progress through them at different rates."

 

But, just before that she says you can choose to divide up the time between history and Great Books however you want - alternating by hours, days, weeks, or even semesters (all history first, then all lit).

 

I definitely want to read about, for example, the real Gilgamesh and the legend of Gilgamesh in HOAW *before* we read Gilgamesh as literature. (I'll probably pull out the flood story and read it after reading about the flood in HOAW.) I haven't made out my "master list" yet. But, since we're free to pretty much chop up the history and lit however it pleases us, I think I'll have ds read HOAW in a chunk, and then stop and do the literature that has either been mentioned in the text, or that fits that spot. For example, read parts of the Bhagavad Gita after the paraphrase of the Mahabharata in HOAW. Begin the Iliad after HOAW explains the mixing of fact and legend that brought it to life. Checking the back of the book, you can see where to fit in selections of Plutarch's lives - which I think will be nice spread out, rather than all at once.

 

And, she does a great job in HOAW of lining up the Biblical narrative and history. I think it was you who had mentioned using the Bible as a spine? I'm hoping I'll be able to figure out a way to incorporate some of that chronologically as well. (Read Nahum after HOAW quotes it, for example)

 

I doubt we will do much Herodotus or Thucidydes, because there's so much in HOAW already. But, they're here if ds is really interested.

 

Someone else posted that dc is supposed to write 2 one-page persuasive papers a week (divided between history, literature, or science). I'm guessing that step 4 above (things to investigate further) would culminate in maybe some extra research, leading to a thesis and a persuasive paper once a week? IDK - I'm still very fuzzy on this, and *really* wishing I could have gone to the conference!!!

 

Anyway, hth!

[Kathie in VA]

I definitely want to read about, for example, the real Gilgamesh and the legend of Gilgamesh in HOAW *before* we read Gilgamesh as literature. (I'll probably pull out the flood story and read it after reading about the flood in HOAW.) I haven't made out my "master list" yet. But, since we're free to pretty much chop up the history and lit however it pleases us, I think I'll have ds read HOAW in a chunk, and then stop and do the literature that has either been mentioned in the text, or that fits that spot. For example, read parts of the Bhagavad Gita after the paraphrase of the Mahabharata in HOAW. Begin the Iliad after HOAW explains the mixing of fact and legend that brought it to life. Checking the back of the book, you can see where to fit in selections of Plutarch's lives - which I think will be nice spread out, rather than all at once.

 

And, she does a great job in HOAW of lining up the Biblical narrative and history. I think it was you who had mentioned using the Bible as a spine? I'm hoping I'll be able to figure out a way to incorporate some of that chronologically as well. (Read Nahum after HOAW quotes it, for example)

 

.....

 

Someone else posted that dc is supposed to write 2 one-page persuasive papers a week (divided between history, literature, or science). I'm guessing that step 4 above (things to investigate further) would culminate in maybe some extra research, leading to a thesis and a persuasive paper once a week? IDK - I'm still very fuzzy on this, and *really* wishing I could have gone to the conference!!!

 

Anyway, hth!

 

3 Questions:

 

1. I would also like to read about the literature in our history before reading the actual literature but since I haven't read the Great Books I'm finding it really hard to look at the list and know where they fit within the history reading. Does the WTM book give guidance on this? I know the list is in chron order, and the WEM does summarize for me what they are all about, but it does seem a bit daunting to put together which I want to try to get to and when/where in history I should plan to read them. kwim? :confused:

 

2. Is the writing that is suggested the main writing that the student is to do? We will also be doing a separate writing program (CW) so I wonder if I should add her estimate on to that or find a balance between the two.

 

3. Okay, I have the first WTM edition and I think this is a big change in how history and literature are suggested. In the first edition, I noticed that at the Rhetoric stage literature suddenly takes the lead over history. Meaning that you no longer read a spine and fit in the literature. Instead you pick your next literature book (Great Book), find the related info in your history book and read it for background, read the timeline book & mark your timeline, etc. Then once all the background reading is done and some notes are taken on what the book will be about, the author, etc., then you begin reading the book. When you get to the next book, you read the history pages that relate to that book. She suggests not to worry about gaps as most will be covered as you read and re-read history sections for the various Great Books. So with the new edition are we back to reading a spine first?? :001_huh:

 

:bigear::lurk5:

[Liza Q]

not to worry about keeping history reading and Great Books reading "somehow parallel...the student will progress through them at different rates."

 

We did not try to keep things parallel and my girls were still able to make a lot of connections. But it was our third time through Ancient History so I think we all have a mental timeline, which makes it easier.

[Rhondabee]

We did not try to keep things parallel and my girls were still able to make a lot of connections. But it was our third time through Ancient History so I think we all have a mental timeline, which makes it easier.

 

This will only be our 2nd time through Ancient History. And really, our first was very quick. We started Ancients in January of ds's 5th grade, maybe went a couple of weeks into the summer, and then 2-3 weeks in his 6th grade year. So, while we remember *some*, I think we will be definitely helped by doing things the new way (and, reading the related history before delving into the literature).

 

Obviously, starting WTM in first grade would have been the better path - ;).

 

3 Questions:

 

1. I would also like to read about the literature in our history before reading the actual literature but since I haven't read the Great Books I'm finding it really hard to look at the list and know where they fit within the history reading. Does the WTM book give guidance on this? I know the list is in chron order, and the WEM does summarize for me what they are all about, but it does seem a bit daunting to put together which I want to try to get to and when/where in history I should plan to read them. kwim? :confused:

 

:bigear::lurk5:

 

As I posted above, we're not history or lit experts here, either. But, reading through HOAW for myself is making the connections for me. She really does a great job of explaining how the myths mirror reality, and mentioning different literature pieces & authors, so you'll know where to fit them in. Also, there are footnotes in the back to help you see which primary sources *she* used for each chapter, so you can fit them in there as well.

 

I'm really not sure how she would advise someone using CW, though it is now a recommended resource.

[RhondaM.]

 

And, she does a great job in HOAW of lining up the Biblical narrative and history. I think it was you who had mentioned using the Bible as a spine? I'm hoping I'll be able to figure out a way to incorporate some of that chronologically as well. (Read Nahum after HOAW quotes it, for example)

 

 

 

 

Rhondabee....check this out...

http://www.amazon.com/Reese-Chronological-Bible-Edward/dp/0871231158/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242648047&sr=8-1

 

The Reese Chronological Bible ..it is a King James Version and includes dates at the top of each page. I have not had a chance to look at it much, but I bought it hoping to somehow combine it w/ HOAW.

 

RhondaM.

Edited May 18, 2009 by RhondaM.