Spielvogel Western Civilization curriculum?

[Guest Gavaisky]

Serious newbie question: is there a ready-made curriculum or set of lesson plans out there for Spielvogel's Western Civilization (besides Omnibus)?

[Kathie in VA]

I know the WTM methods suggests this but it's not a set of 'ready made' lesson plans that differ per chapter.

 

But, I did just find this really neat site. It's an online, interactive "Companion" for this book. It has concentrations games, essay questions, timeline work, etc.

http://www.wadsworth.com/cgi-wadsworth/course_products_wp.pl?fid=M20b&product_isbn_issn=0534646026&discipline_number=21

 

hth

Kathie

[Cathy in SoCal]

That is really a nice resource, Kathie. Thanks for sharing!

[5Youngs]

I am confused as to why so many people have chosen this text for high school.

I borrowed a copy from the library and I am astounded by the amount of 'glossing over' there is on SO many subjects!

The coverage of wars, in particular, is astounding.

(I should say, the lack thereof)

No mention of the cost of lives anywhere in the Human Odyssey, and I've looked!

Not in the Bolshevik revolution, Moussilini's Italy, Hitler's Germany or Mao's China.

The section on the Russian overthrow actually states that 'there was little loss of life.'

HMMM, 40 MILLION Russian civilians murdered, and that's 'little loss of life'?

Who is this guy?:confused:

Where did he get his information?

The lack of real history in schoolds is one of the reasons that I chose to homeschool.

Apparently, that lack extends into college.

I am still searching for a good text, and until then, we'll read autobiographies and historical accounts, I guess..........

[jonesloonybin]

Western Civilization is a College Text

 

Human Odyssey is a High School Text and therefore there is a lot more "oversight" and such before a book is approved for Public High School use.

 

Have you compared it to Western Civilization by Spielvogel or World History by Dunker and Spielvogel (another College Text)?

Edited March 26, 2009 by jonesloonybin

[5Youngs]

Western Civilization is a College Text

 

Human Odyssey is a High School Text and therefore there is alot more "oversight" and such before a book is approved for Public High School use.

 

Have you compared it to Western Civilization by Spielvogel or World History by Dunker and Spielvogel (another College Text)?

 

Does anyone have a copy of both Spielvogel texts that they have looked through?

I'm not paying for either book, based on what I've read in Human Odyssey.

The page count isn't that different, according to Amazon.com details.

 

I just found it astounding that wars would be discussed with high schoolers, and there would be NO discussion of the loss of life that occurred.

That may be an implied fact for adults, but it shouldn't be implied when learning mature content about events in a historical context.

Obviously, we're not discussing the death tolls of wars in elementary and middle school.

I would think that high schoolers were mature enough to have access and discussion about that facet of war, considering that they would be old enough to die for their country before learning about the real cost of war in college.............

[jonesloonybin]

I have the World History Text by Spielvogel and Dunker. Do you have a specific topic you would like me to look up and we could compare my book to yours? I do not have the Human Odyssey.

[5Youngs]

I have the World History Text by Spielvogel and Dunker. Do you have a specific topic you would like me to look up and we could compare my book to yours? I do not have the Human Odyssey.

 

That would be great.

Let's try the Bolshevik revolution.

The Human Odyssey mentions battlefronts and that the Tsar's family was shot and burned.

That is it on the death toll of the war.

Does your text make mention of people actually dying in that war?

(I'm not meaning to be obnoxious about this subject~)

I just want my sons to see the entire spectrum of war.

That people die, it's ugly, there are consequences.

It's not like a video game or a movie.

It's permanent.

And high school is an appropriate time for them to learn that.

College is too late, in my opinion.

Does that make sense?

Thank you for taking the time to look this up for me~~~:)

[jonesloonybin]

I just have to say that I had this book for awhile and had not really read that far into it. It was given to me by my brother. (he used it for his college class.)

 

Russian Revolution (Could not find Bolshevik in the index)

 

Mentions the assassination of Rasputin.

Mention Nicholas ordering troops to fire into the crowd on March 10 during the Petrograd women's march.

States that he abdicated on March 15th

Mentions that that under Lenin the Bolsheviks were dedicated to "Violent" Revolution

Mentions that that Bolshevik forces seized the White Palace and that the provisional government collapsed with little bloodshed.

It then goes on to talk about the "Red Terror".

 

I am sad to say that is pretty much it. I also took a look at the Vietnam War section (now called the Indochina war) and it is SADLY lacking. It makes it out to be "we went there, hung around a bit, argued, and then peacefully decided to leave" I am AMAZED! I have to thank you for bringing this to my attention. I been debating whether or not to use this and the answer is most definitely NO.

 

Hope this helps you.

[jonesloonybin]

Also, I wanted to mention that I agree with you. I don't like to focus on all the bloodshed all the time. But these things did happen and with my family's history of military service, I want to make sure I am being honest with my teenager. I know that reading what really happened made history really come alive for me. It was so dull and washed out when I was in high school. Luckly I had my dad there to tell me what really happened.

[5Youngs]

I know~

It's very discouraging that students are not seeing the entire picture.

I want to give them as complete a picture as possible.

I just could not believe how shallow the coverage was in the high school book.

The fact that it is that it is also skimmed over in the college book is alarming.........

[Rhondabee]

You do realize that Human Odyssey is a 34-chapter book, that the average high school class would complete in one 36-week year - not the four years of the WTM cycle, right? That's a chapter each week if a teacher attempts to do the whole book. So, I suppose some things are going to be covered more superficially than those of us who are used to a slower pace with more depth would prefer.

 

I see here that HO (p 821) states, "The Provisional Government quickly collapsed with little bloodshed," so I am guessing that is what you are referring to. Just for reference, according to Clive Ponting's World History: A New Perspective: "The central organization had almost no control over this process...Eventually Lenin was successful in arguing for a seizure of power in the name of the Petrograd soviet where the Bolsheviks held a majority. A handful of troops was enough to disperse the provisional government and the Bolsheviks took power." (p 757) That was the jist I got studying our logic-stage resources this year, as well - that as far as revolutions go, it was a fairly peaceful transfer of power.

 

Four pages earlier (p817 in my book), HO states that "Between 1914 and 1916, two million (Russian) soldiers had been killed, and another four to six million had been wounded or captured." So, I don't think he is avoiding statistics or war deaths. But, the overthrow of the Tsar, and then the overthrow of the Provisional Government, was not the cause of 40 million dying in Russia. That was the work of the famine and the policies of the Communists (particularly Stalin) who took over *after* the Civil War. I don't have time to read through all the references to Stalin in the index, but perhaps that is where you should look for that information.

 

*****

 

As an aside, I don't believe that WTM recommends using *only* Spielvogel for a history resource. It is also recommended that students look up the context of the book using The Timetables of History and DK's History of the World. Then, in addition to that and the Spielvogel, it is recommended that they read about the time period from another source. (There are two recommended sources in WTM, one of which is the Ponting I quote above.)

Edited March 27, 2009 by Rhondabee

[EKS]

I haven't seen the Spielvogel's college-level texts, but I agree about Human Odyssey. It is incredibly disjointed. It is written as though someone has randomly cut things from a more detailed book. The narrative is very difficult to follow even within an individual chapter section. It makes me nuts.

 

Is there a more coherent high school level world history text out there?

[jonesloonybin]

I just wanted to clarify that the book I have is World History by Duiker and Spielvogel NOT World Civilization by Spielvogel (that is recommended in WTM.) So, that book may be an improvement.

[kate in seattle]

You must realize that the history textbook is only a "spine" or skeleton (pegboard, insert your favorite term for organizing scheme here). It is up to you as the teacher to bring in books, films, news reports, etc. which then 'flesh out' this basic outline.

 

I do not look to any TEXT book as the end of the information gathering process. It is a handy organizer of events. For full facts, interpretation, etc., you must go elsewhere. Using a textbook in a classroom situation ensures that all class members come to the classroom with a common body of knowledge. The teacher is supposed to ADD to this. Using it at home, it is a springboard for further work.

 

Use the Speilvogel to set the background - rough sketch of what is going on. We usually do a timeline at the beginning of a time period as well - just the big events. Then as we plunge into one or two events in more detail the period comes a bit more alive.

 

And, as one previous poster mentioned, few classrooms have the luxury of taking four years to go through history. These introductory classes are called 'survey' classes for a reason.

 

I have read through nearly all of Spielvogel and don't remember casulty counts for any battle or war. You will disagree with any textbook at some point. The Spielvogel has many plusses (color, great maps, primary sources, built in questions). Another western civ text that I could also recommend is the one by Kagan, Ozment and Turner. Hope you find something that better fits your needs.

 

kate in seattle

[Lizzie in Ma]

You must realize that the history textbook is only a "spine" or skeleton (pegboard, insert your favorite term for organizing scheme here). It is up to you as the teacher to bring in books, films, news reports, etc. which then 'flesh out' this basic outline.

 

I do not look to any TEXT book as the end of the information gathering process. It is a handy organizer of events. For full facts, interpretation, etc., you must go elsewhere. Using a textbook in a classroom situation ensures that all class members come to the classroom with a common body of knowledge. The teacher is supposed to ADD to this. Using it at home, it is a springboard for further work.

 

Use the Speilvogel to set the background - rough sketch of what is going on. We usually do a time line at the beginning of a time period as well - just the big events. Then as we plunge into one or two events in more detail the period comes a bit more alive.

 

And, as one previous poster mentioned, few classrooms have the luxury of taking four years to go through history. These introductory classes are called 'survey' classes for a reason.

 

I have read through nearly all of Spielvogel and don't remember casualty counts for any battle or war. You will disagree with any textbook at some point. The Spielvogel has many pluses (color, great maps, primary sources, built in questions). Another western civ text that I could also recommend is the one by Kagan, Ozment and Turner. Hope you find something that better fits your needs.

 

kate in seattle

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

This is how I use it for myself and how I will be using it soon for my dd.

In our first rotation we didn't read SOTW without pulling in all the books and films and maps and such that brought it to life. In our 2nd rotation with Mystery of History we have also read books, watched films and documentaries and looked at the relevant geography.

I don't expect any world history text to be the "be all and end all". Like Kate said, they are the jumping point and continuity thread. Very helpful for the big picture but it is up to you to bring it all to life. For me, that is the fun part. :)

[EKS]

You must realize that the history textbook is only a "spine" or skeleton (pegboard, insert your favorite term for organizing scheme here). It is up to you as the teacher to bring in books, films, news reports, etc. which then 'flesh out' this basic outline.

 

 

I do understand this, but I also expect a good text to hang together internally. It may omit things, but at least within chapter sections, and preferably within entire chapters, it should be written so that the narrative remains intact. Human Odyssey simply does not do this the majority of the time. Even within single *paragraphs* it jumps around.

 

A textbook should be able to stand alone as a coherent presentation of its subject matter. Human Odyssey doesn't merely need fleshing out--it needs to be made intelligible.

[5Youngs]

I realize that there is not a book on world history that will cover everything that EVER happened. My point is, if you are learning about the MAJOR events in history, which is what any textbook claims to cover, then how in the world can you leave out facts like 40 million people died from hunger during this 15 year period of time? What about the 60 million people who died under Mao in China 1949-1954, because that's not covered either! Am I saying that we need to know when every country had people die in a conflict? NO~ That would be absurd. But with the enormity of the loss of life in just these two SHORT periods of time, how could that be simply edited out? Doesn't it make you wonder what else is missing? Good lord, how could the enormity not be an important part of history? AND, it all occurred in the last 100 years of history. You'd think it would be covered MORE thoroughly..........

[Mom22ns]

Ok, after all this discussion, I have to ask what your opinions would be of using Human Odyssey for a middle school spine? I was considering using it for 8th grade. I would be supplementing, and to be honest, this child is socially immature, although his reading and comprehension level is high. I'm not sure I mind a bit of glossing, but I don't want total garbage :confused:

 

Thoughts on the book from this perspective?

[EKS]

I am using Spielvogel's HO with a 7th grader right now and I ended up having to add K12's Human Odyssey series (just a coincidence that it has the same name) to help make the narrative coherent. So the idea is that the K12 reading is like the "lecture" and the Spielvogel book is like the reading assignment for "homework". But even with a complete history rotation behind us and the help of the K12 books, the Spielvogel book is still barely comprehensible in places. It seems like you shouldn't have to work that hard to make a text hang together.

 

I highly recommend the K12 Human Odyssey series for middle school. Right now I'm looking around for something to replace the Spielvogel HO book with next year.

[Heather in AL]

I was planning on using The Human Odyssey as our spine for next year (9th grade), so I pulled it out and started looking. I don't remember many specifics of my own history classes, but I could tell right away that everything was pretty much just touched on. I did look at the Russian Revolution and was very dismayed at what I saw. No mention of the incredibly tragic story of the Romanov children, which I DO remember (I remember hoping against hope that Anastasia had escaped!). Then I pulled out another World History text I have...Holt from 2005. Again, only a mention of 'power change'. It gets worse from there. I pulled out a Western Civ book used in the local college, and...are you ready for this?.... mentioned that Nicholas II abdicated and Lenin took over. ???? It made it would like a peaceful transition!!! What the heck is up with this? There was not one mention of the Romanov family, not one mention of bloodshed, and not one mention of what the people thought of Nicholas. Even Spielvogel's Western Civ (which, one would expect to delve deeper into significant events) glossed over this subject.

 

Then, I looked in two supplemental books I have (A Concise History of the World, and another one who's title escapes me), and again... they only mention that Nicholas II abdicated. If this is how history is being taught, it's no wonder that our country is lacking in historical knowledge!! It's the *details* that stick in our minds! We need the details! We need to know the true horrors of events!

 

Out of all the books I have, the ONLY one....the ONLY one....that told of the horror the Romanovs faced was SOTW. Now I know I'll have to supplement the books we use, so that's not unexpected, but if something isn't IN a book, how will I even know I need to find more information on it? And I sure don't remember any additions to the texts in my days in school (other than watching Kennedy's assassination), so it's a safe bet that most PS kids aren't getting extras today. How sad is that?!

[Carmen_and_Company]

I know~

It's very discouraging that students are not seeing the entire picture.

I want to give them as complete a picture as possible.

I just could not believe how shallow the coverage was in the high school book.

The fact that it is that it is also skimmed over in the college book is alarming.........

 

You're not going to find much better in most other college freshman level history texts unless you get one that specializes on a specific war or county's history. Most texts gloss over history pre-19th century due to time constraints. Also, Speilvogel's text centers around themes, not events or persons. Last, you must take into consideration that for most college freshman, Speilvogel's and texts like his are their first taste of any meaningful and engaging history, as the majority of high school history texts read like the KHE.

[HollyinNNV]

What *one might like to cover* and *what it is possible to cover* in high school are two very different things. History Odyssey is listed at Amazon as having over 1,000 pages. I own West Civ and I know it is at least as long as that. However, a textbook, even a great one, simply cannot encompass all of WESTERN CIVILIZATION. So, there will always be omissions and eras that are not covered in as much detail. I don't think that is a reason to dismiss a textbook, but simply a possible reason to enhance it with outside resources.

 

I think what many of us have found is that we can try and cover Spielvogel in a year and feel confident that we have made a significant dent in covering Western Civilization. And for myself, as I would not ever try and speak for others, I've found that I cannot center my schooling around history. It is just one important subject of many. And while I'd certainly love to assign everything related to history, my dd is also slogging through quadratic equations, annelid anatomy, french impressionistic harp repertoire and Frankenstein. So, I feel very comfortable that West Civ is a complete and thorough history course.

Holly

[Michelle in MO]

You must realize that the history textbook is only a "spine" or skeleton (pegboard, insert your favorite term for organizing scheme here). It is up to you as the teacher to bring in books, films, news reports, etc. which then 'flesh out' this basic outline.

 

I do not look to any TEXT book as the end of the information gathering process. It is a handy organizer of events. For full facts, interpretation, etc., you must go elsewhere. Using a textbook in a classroom situation ensures that all class members come to the classroom with a common body of knowledge. The teacher is supposed to ADD to this. Using it at home, it is a springboard for further work.

 

Use the Speilvogel to set the background - rough sketch of what is going on. We usually do a timeline at the beginning of a time period as well - just the big events. Then as we plunge into one or two events in more detail the period comes a bit more alive.

 

And, as one previous poster mentioned, few classrooms have the luxury of taking four years to go through history. These introductory classes are called 'survey' classes for a reason.

 

I have read through nearly all of Spielvogel and don't remember casulty counts for any battle or war. You will disagree with any textbook at some point. The Spielvogel has many plusses (color, great maps, primary sources, built in questions). Another western civ text that I could also recommend is the one by Kagan, Ozment and Turner. Hope you find something that better fits your needs.

 

kate in seattle

 

we opted to use Human Odyssey. But, as Kate explained so cogently, it's impossible for one text to cover every single detail. Western Civilization is an excellent textbook; yes, it does not cover every possible situation, but in a classroom situation, those details would be further explained by the teacher and by additional assigned readings. The same would be true while homeschooling; you read the text, but then you read and discuss the many other assigned works such as are recommended in TWTM or Omnibus or TOG or whatever other curriculum you are following.

 

We used World History: A Human Odyssey, and although it wasn't perfect, it provided a decent spine for the extensive reading we did with Omnibus. I'm convinced my girls had a good foundation in world history, with a focus on Western Civilization, between this text and the extensive reading we did while homeschooling.

[LisaNY]

I realize that there is not a book on world history that will cover everything that EVER happened. My point is, if you are learning about the MAJOR events in history, which is what any textbook claims to cover, then how in the world can you leave out facts like 40 million people died from hunger during this 15 year period of time? What about the 60 million people who died under Mao in China 1949-1954, because that's not covered either! Am I saying that we need to know when every country had people die in a conflict? NO~ That would be absurd. But with the enormity of the loss of life in just these two SHORT periods of time, how could that be simply edited out? Doesn't it make you wonder what else is missing? Good lord, how could the enormity not be an important part of history? AND, it all occurred in the last 100 years of history. You'd think it would be covered MORE thoroughly..........

 

I have a few textbooks on my shelves, and none of them mention death-tolls. Actually, I don't expect textbooks to necessarily give this information. It can easily be found by doing an internet search, which is something I would recommend to you. That is the beauty of homeschooling - tailoring your particular curriculum to reflect the information that you want to bring to the forefront. For me, a textbook is a spine, and that is all.

[Beth in SW WA]

For me, a textbook is a spine, and that is all.

 

:iagree:

HO is a great overview of world history. WC is a snapshot of, well, western civ. I'm not hung-up on specifics. Ds is reading a bit of HO currently and we are adding lit & Netflix docs for "color." The text is a jumping-off point.

[Heather in AL]

That is the beauty of homeschooling - tailoring your particular curriculum to reflect the information that you want to bring to the forefront. For me, a textbook is a spine, and that is all.

I totally agree. I am just dismayed that so much has been left out of the whole picture in the more current ( in the last 15 years or so) texts. I just feel bad for those who don't have the tailoring that we can provide. To me, that's what brings history alive!

 

As an aside, we'll still be using our Spielvogel next year with extras. Ds and I like the way it's written. :001_smile:

[Chris in VA]

Just wanted to add that while we loved Speilvogel's West Civ for the first 2 years of the rotation, we thought it was very superficial for 20th century history. I was actually surprised how little was mentioned--I chose to supplement with Martin Gilbert's series, which practically goes day by day. It contains very little analysis, but does the job re: facts.

 

I do think Speil is great for Ancients and Medieval/Ren. (Can't comment on year 3 of the rotation, as we used something else.)

[LilyK]

then how in the world can you leave out facts like 40 million people died from hunger during this 15 year period of time? What about the 60 million people who died under Mao in China 1949-1954, because that's not covered either

 

You would be surprised how many textbooks leave these figures out. I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but those figures you cited are very disputed, and the exact figures are by no means established fact. I have read everything from 25 million to 55 million for Stalin's purges. Mao's bloodshed is cited as anywhere between 30-65 million. Since your figures are toward the high end of a disputed scale, I can't fault a program for not including it.

[siloam]

Serious newbie question: is there a ready-made curriculum or set of lesson plans out there for Spielvogel's Western Civilization (besides Omnibus)?

 

Tapestry of Grace lists it as an alternate resource (that you can use instead of their main choices).

 

Heather