Handmaiden Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) I have been obsessing about the progression of math for my soon to be 6th grader. He is on an engineering track (dh is an engineer) and I don't want to mess up his college prep plans. We've used MUS until Gamma, but he would have occasional meltdowns and sloppy work. I switched to Teaching Textbooks and we've finished TT5 and are about to finish TT6 soon. He LOVES TT and has been doing well but I would like to gently transition him to a more rigorous program. We are also supplementing with Life of Fred. Amazingly, though he complains a LOT about math he placed in the 96th percentile in math with standardized testing last year and also qualified for EPGY math (which we decided against for now due to cost). I'm leaning toward Chalkdust for upper levels. Here are the options I'm considering: 1. Finish TT6 (1-2 months) and start CD Basic Math, the CD pre-alg, etc. 2. Finish TT7 and start CD Basic Math, then CD pre-alg, etc. 3. Do one of the two progressions above and move on to EPGY (my parents offered to pay 1/2 the cost) 4. ?? Track 1 would take longer obviously, so I'm leaning toward track 2. Not sure about track 3. I'm wondering if he would skip important info in TT7. My goal is to get him to algebra by 8th grade at the latest. I could have him take the CD evaluation...is it worth the $16? I'd really appreciate the wisdom from you high school moms who've btdt with engineer types. TIA!! :) Edited March 19, 2009 by Handmaiden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsintheGarden Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) I suggest a #4 track - skip the CD basic math, start him on CD Prealgebra, then CD Algebra I, etc. The Prealgebra should be just right in getting him used to the CD format, without boring him with more arithmetic review. Take a careful look at scope and sequences, though. If he is bright in math and ready, you could skip the CD Prealgebra as well and go straight to CD Algebra I. Many students take Algebra I in 7th grade, and some take it in 6th or even 5th. Basic math and Prealgebra are courses designed to review and provide readiness for those middle school students who are not developmentally ready for Algebra I. Readiness does not equate to intelligence. When planning for college, it is a good idea to work backwards from where you think you want him to be. DH and I both graduated with degrees in Electrical Engineering from VA Tech, and ds is a freshman in engineering there. Most college freshman engineering students have had at least one year calculus in high school (equivalent to one semester of college calculus), so that is probably what you should shoot for. Ds had CD high school math through CD Calculus (the first half of the Larson Calculus book, plus the DVDs), and aced the AP Calculus AB test. He has been well prepared for college calculus. I wished he had had the time to work through the entire Larson Calculus book and take the AP Calculus BC test for more credit. DD, a high school junior, is planning to major in biochemistry in college. She plans to finish CD Precalculus this summer, then try to get through the Larson book by AP test time next year. If she can't, she'll take the AB test, if she can, she'll take BC. BTW, many find the CD Precalculus course to be their most challenging and time-consuming. If at all possible, allow for 1 1/2 school years to complete it. Here is one plan for high school math using CD: Plan A: 6th grade: 1st half of CD Prealgebra (or start CD Algebra I slowly if he's ready) 7th grade: 2nd half of CD Prealgebra, 1st half of CD Algebra I 8th grade: 2nd half of CD Algebra I, 1st half of CD Geometry 9th grade: 2nd half of CD Geometry, 1st half of CD Algebra II 10th grade: 2nd half of CD Algebra II, 1st 1/3 of CD Precalculus 11th grade: Finish CD Precalculus (note, chapter 12 can be skipped) 12th grade: CD Calculus. Do as much as you can; if you get through the first half of the book by AP time take the AB exam, if you get through the whole thing take the BC exam. HTH, Gardenmom Edited March 20, 2009 by MomsintheGarden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildiris Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Thank you so much for your post!!!!!!!!!!!!!:001_smile::001_smile::001_smile::001_smile: If the dream of becoming a concert pianist eludes my DD, she wants to be an electrical engineer. Did you use the Chalk dust DVDs for all of your upper math classes? DD, now in 6th grade, has almost completed Chalk Dust prealgebra. She likes math more than ever before thanks to this program. I am curious, what did you used for science in middle school and high school. Care to comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handmaiden Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 I suggest a #4 track - skip the CD basic math, start him on CD Prealgebra, then CD Algebra I, etc. The Prealgebra should be just right in getting him used to the CD format, without boring him with more arithmetic review. Take a careful look at scope and sequences, though. If he is bright in math and ready, you could skip the CD Prealgebra as well and go straight to CD Algebra I. Many students take Algebra I in 7th grade, and some take it in 6th or even 5th. Basic math and Prealgebra are courses designed to review and provide readiness for those middle school students who are not developmentally ready for Algebra I. Readiness does not equate to intelligence. When planning for college, it is a good idea to work backwards from where you think you want him to be. DH and I both graduated with degrees in Electrical Engineering from VA Tech, and ds is a freshman in engineering there. Most college freshman engineering students have had at least one year calculus in high school (equivalent to one semester of college calculus), so that is probably what you should shoot for. Ds had CD high school math through CD Calculus (the first half of the Larson Calculus book, plus the DVDs), and aced the AP Calculus AB test. He has been well prepared for college calculus. I wished he had had the time to work through the entire Larson Calculus book and take the AP Calculus BC test for more credit. DD, a high school junior, is planning to major in biochemistry in college. She plans to finish CD Precalculus this summer, then try to get through the Larson book by AP test time next year. If she can't, she'll take the AB test, if she can, she'll take BC. BTW, many find the CD Precalculus course to be their most challenging and time-consuming. If at all possible, allow for 1 1/2 school years to complete it. Here is one plan for high school math using CD: Plan A: 6th grade: 1st half of CD Prealgebra (or start CD Algebra I slowly if he's ready) 7th grade: 2nd half of CD Prealgebra, 2nd half of CD Algebra I 8th grade: 2nd half of CD Algebra I, 1st half of CD Geometry 9th grade: 2nd half of CD Geometry, 1st half of CD Algebra II 10th grade: 2nd half of CD Algebra II, 1st 1/3 of CD Precalculus 11th grade: Finish CD Precalculus (note, chapter 12 can be skipped) 12th grade: CD Calculus. Do as much as you can; if you get through the first half of the book by AP time take the AB exam, if you get through the whole thing take the BC exam. HTH, Gardenmom Hmmmm...you've given me food for thought. I had not considered going straight to pre-algebra because I am concerened that he is not ready. Although he tested "gifted" in math, he doesn't breeze through it like my younger ds. He has some bad days when he gets frustrated and says he hates math and it's too hard. I'm thinking he probably needs more foundational work. He is a visual spatial learner, and I think sequential processes often trip him up because he thinks globally. I've read that visual spatial learners typically struggle with algebra because they need to go through minute steps and their focus breaks down. They thrive on complexity but can't handle the simple. I've heard that CD pre-algebra is rigorous to comparable pre-alg programs, thus my thought of doing CD Basic Math and/or TT7 first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handmaiden Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April in CA Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 BTW, many find the CD Precalculus course to be their most challenging and time-consuming. If at all possible, allow for 1 1/2 school years to complete it. HTH, Gardenmom Hi! I am sorry to hi-jack a discussion, but this is exactly what I need to know about! Gardenmom or anyone else with knowledge, does the CD website or anywhere else official address taking three semesters to cover CD Precalculus? My son is taking physics and pre calc along with a very full schedule of Tapestry of Grace and other things. We could really use the extra time, but I need to have something to show my umbrella school. Would we call it one semester of Alg 3, a semester of Trig, and a semester of Analytic Geometry or something else? Thanks for your help! (I am raising a young engineer as well, but he is a junior already - whre does the time go...?) Blessings, April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Handmaiden, My dc have done this starting in 6th. They both completed TT 7 in about 6 months and started CD PreAlg during 6th: TT 7 CD PreAlg CD Alg 1 You will love CD. We adore Prof. Mosely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsintheGarden Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Music and math/science - what a great combination! For science, this is what we did for ds, engineering major: 7th & 8th: Rainbow Science 9th: Apologia Chemistry I 10th: Apologia Physics I 11th: Apologia Biology I & Apologia Chemistry II 12: Apologia Physics II, review & study for Chemistry AP Test (Note: We found that a gap with review & using Apologia was not good prep for the Chemistry AP. Apologia, IMHO, did not teach the subject deeply enough.) What we're doing for dd (high school junior), future biochemistry major: 7th & 8th: Cornell Home Study Ornithology (Bird) Course 9th: Apologia Biology I 10th: Apologia Chemistry I 11th: Zumdahl AP Chemistry with DIVE Chemistry CD for experiments & study for Chemistry AP test & Chemistry Olympiad tests 12th: Apologia Physics I & review and study for the Chemistry Olympiad tests (we might do an anatomy course as well, if her schedule allows). For ds #2 (5th grader), we'll do Rainbow Science for 6th & 7th grades so we can get an earlier start on high school science. He's just started using CD Algebra I (slowly). HTH! Gardenmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsintheGarden Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Many students are just not ready for Algebra until they are older. It has to do with development, not intelligence. That's what's so wonderful about homeschooling - you look at your child and the options, and make a decision that's right for him. Our 1st ds did Algebra I in 8th grade, Geometry in 9th, Algebra II in 10th, Precalc for part of the summer before 11th, 11th, part of the summer after 11th, and the first half of 12th, then CD Calculus (and the Calculus AB AP test) the second half of 12th. If I had known precalc was going to take so long I would have tried to have him do Algebra I in 7th. It turned out just fine, though. Part of the problem was that when he was doing Precalc, I was super busy with a new baby and other obligations, so I wasn't able to keep up with the checking as well as I would have liked. I could probably have gotten him through Precalc a bit faster if I had been more on top of things. Best wishes making those tough decisions. Gardenmom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsintheGarden Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) I first learned that CD Precalculus would be challenging when I ordered it from them by phone. Mr. Mosely (CD's teacher's brother - he does the business side of CD) said that most students take 18 months to finish Precalc. It has a lot of material. I would call the three semesters Advanced Algebra, Trigonometry, and Analytic Geometry. There is also some linear algebra and probability, but that can be included in the Advanced Algebra topic. The Analytic Geometry chapters are the most challenging, and very good prep for calculus. Have your student memorize as many trigonometry identities as possible - they are critical for Calculus. If your student is weak in trig he will suffer in college! If he is strong in trig, he will find calculus easier than precalc. If your student is strong in Algebra you can skip the Precalculus chapter P. You can also skip either Precalculus Chapter 12 or Calculus Chapter P, because they both teach limits. Gardenmom Edited March 20, 2009 by MomsintheGarden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handmaiden Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Handmaiden, My dc have done this starting in 6th. They both completed TT 7 in about 6 months and started CD PreAlg during 6th: TT 7 CD PreAlg CD Alg 1 You will love CD. We adore Prof. Mosely! Beth, what kind of schedule did you have your kids on to get them to complete TT 7 in 6 months? TT 5 will have taken us about 9 months. Did you double up lessons or skip some altogether? Also, if you had to do it over again would you have taken the same route or would you have done TT 6 --> CD Basic Math --> CD PreAlg? Do you feel both routes are comparable, or is there a definite advantage (besides cost) with the route you've taken? I keep thinking CD Basic Math might be more comprehensive than TT 7, but I'm wondering it might be a bit much for him after TT 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handmaiden Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Many students are just not ready for Algebra until they are older. It has to do with development, not intelligence. That's what's so wonderful about homeschooling - you look at your child and the options, and make a decision that's right for him. Our 1st ds did Algebra I in 8th grade, Geometry in 9th, Algebra II in 10th, Precalc for part of the summer before 11th, 11th, part of the summer after 11th, and the first half of 12th, then CD Calculus (and the Calculus AB AP test) the second half of 12th. If I had known precalc was going to take so long I would have tried to have him do Algebra I in 7th. It turned out just fine, though. Part of the problem was that when he was doing Precalc, I was super busy with a new baby and other obligations, so I wasn't able to keep up with the checking as well as I would have liked. I could probably have gotten him through Precalc a bit faster if I had been more on top of things. Best wishes making those tough decisions. Gardenmom Thanks for this insight. I know he will have to really buckle down and press through challenging upper level math if he desires the engineering track, but I'm also concerned about pushing him too soon, too fast. He's always been my "gifted late bloomer," which sounds like an oxymoron, but it is totally true. I am not sure he will be able to handle algebra in 7th, but then again, there are things he can handle now that he couldn't a year ago so maybe I'm thinking too far ahead. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Beth, what kind of schedule did you have your kids on to get them to complete TT 7 in 6 months? TT 5 will have taken us about 9 months. Did you double up lessons or skip some altogether?I require 1.5 hours of math per day. So yes, some days we did 2 lessons. Also, if you had to do it over again would you have taken the same route or would you have done TT 6 --> CD Basic Math --> CD PreAlg? Do you feel both routes are comparable, or is there a definite advantage (besides cost) with the route you've taken? Both dc were grounded in 5 years of Saxon math at private school. TT was suggested as a program to "ease" into homeschooling. I don't regret using it for late elementary math. For the algebra series, I like CD. I keep thinking CD Basic Math might be more comprehensive than TT 7, but I'm wondering it might be a bit much for him after TT 6. Price might be a factor also. TT 7 can be found for $115'ish. Keep us posted! You've got lots of great options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April in CA Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Thank you Gardenmom! You have given me reassurance about taking longer than a school year to cover the PreCalc text. My son is bright and diligent, and he is finding the Larson text challenging and time-consuming, but well worth doing. He is learning a lot, however long it takes! He did the P chapter and found that it covered concepts that he had not studied before. (of course, he also had a year of geometry between Alg 2 and PreCalc)I will call CD next week and ask for an official notice that I can pass on to my umbrella school about taking 3 semesters to cover the text. Thanks again! Blessings, April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handmaiden Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 I had my son take the CD assessment and he placed in pre-algebra! Woohoo! I thought we would be doing Basic Math next year, so I'm very excited to be able to save time and money. :D Thank you, Garden Mom and Beth for your advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsintheGarden Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I had my son take the CD assessment and he placed in pre-algebra! Woohoo! I thought we would be doing Basic Math next year, so I'm very excited to be able to save time and money. :D Thank you, Garden Mom and Beth for your advice! Wonderful! It's great to have confirmation. Let us know how it goes! And thanks for the info about the CD assessment. We have 5 of their math courses and we had no idea they offered one. I will keep that in mind for the next child that comes along. Blessings, GardenMom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thank you, Garden Mom and Beth for your advice! You're welcome. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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