DKinTX Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I decided I want to test two of my kids this year. I just wanted something easy that I could administer at home (I don't have a BA). So I ordered the CAT test from CLP, but it's from 1970! That's 4 years older than I am. When I told my mom, she said she didn't think it would be an accurate assessment according to today's standards, because she believes school work was easier back then, meaning standards were lower. I just assumed math is math, etc., so I didn't think it would be a problem. Now I'm having second thoughts. What do y'all think? Is the test too outdated? If they score high should I assume it's because the work was too easy? I'd really appreciate your opinions; thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 of the CAT. We ordered from a company that uses the 1970s version for my oldest son when he was in first and second grades. Even though he scored very high, my ds was freaking out (while taking it) about the timed nature of the test. We switched to the Hewitt PASS when he was in third grade because it is untimed. However, my second ds was in first grade then, and the PASS doesn't go that low. So we ordered a CAT for him from another provider, and received the current version. I actually had to call the provider to make sure they didn't send the wrong test because it was SO easy!! The total combined time allowed for the test is 3 hours, my ds finished the whole thing in less than an hour (and double checked all his work as well). He was astonished that it was so easy! I'd have to say the modern version is so easy because public school programs have become so "dumbed-down" since the 1970s. The '70s test was definitely more rigorous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothicGyrl Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hmmm, I order the CAT from FLO educational assessment and testing service. Are we talking about the California Achievement Test (CAT) or is there something else? Because the one I use is pretty rigorous, though I am not sure if it is from 1970 or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKinTX Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hmmm, I order the CAT from FLO educational assessment and testing service. Are we talking about the California Achievement Test (CAT) or is there something else? Because the one I use is pretty rigorous, though I am not sure if it is from 1970 or not. Yes, the California Achievement Test. I ordered it from Christian Liberty Press, and I knew it was from 1970. My mom says that she compares the work we did in second grade to the work my nephew does now, and she feels like it was way easier for us back then (late seventies). So she made me doubt if the results of the test would be an accurate assessment of how my children measure up by today's standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerie in MI Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 CLP intentionally uses the 1970 version because it is more rigorous and they don't like today's dumbed down standards. I know this because I attended a talk for homeschoolers by the Christian Liberty head honcho a few years back and I recall him saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenn in Mo Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yes, the California Achievement Test. I ordered it from Christian Liberty Press, and I knew it was from 1970. My mom says that she compares the work we did in second grade to the work my nephew does now, and she feels like it was way easier for us back then (late seventies). So she made me doubt if the results of the test would be an accurate assessment of how my children measure up by today's standards. So she's going by memory of how difficult your work was way back then? Not to insult her memory at all, but I think it's possible that perhaps it seemed easier to her way back then because she was probably seeing your work on a regular basis. If she isn't looking at schoolwork every day and happens to notice nephew's schoolwork one day...I could see how it would seem more difficult. It's not as fresh to her, kwim? Then again, I could totally be misunderstanding. She might be a schoolteacher for all I know and seeing it all every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well, I don't know how accurate a measurement it will be for comparing your children to today's public schoolers. It depends on whether or not they've renormed the 1970s version. If you really want to compare your kids to today's students, you should use a current test. OTOH, if you want to see how your kids measure up to a more reasonable educational "standard", the 1970s test is a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 you used so that I can try them instead of CLP? I thought their 1st grade test was very hard last yr and want something easier for dd for this yr, since we're just testing as a formality to the pacify the state regs. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKinTX Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 , Then again, I could totally be misunderstanding. . No, you have a valid point. Thanks for responding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKinTX Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 CLP intentionally uses the 1970 version because it is more rigorous and they don't like today's dumbed down standards. I know this because I attended a talk for homeschoolers by the Christian Liberty head honcho a few years back and I recall him saying that. Okay, this information makes me feel a lot better. Although now I'm a little nervous they won't do well! :eek: Thanks for responding, Valerie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy B Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I've used the CAT from CLP . . . I was VERY disappointed. I usually order my CAT tests from Thurber's Educational in Chapel Hill, NC. Last year I decided to order from CLP because it was less expensive . . . I guess you get what you pay for. My "beef" with the test from CLP is that I got a test for my 3rd grader that was for 2nd - 6th grade. The tests that I've ordered from Thurbers have been "grade specific". I did NOT like the combined test at all -- and the test scores I received back from CLP told me little to nothing about how to evalute my child's results. If you've not ordered yet, I would strongly suggest that you find a test elsewhere! If you've already ordered -- hopefully your experience will be vastly different than mine (and that is quite possible!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKinTX Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 I've used the CAT from CLP . . . I was VERY disappointed. Oh no...unfortunately I did already order. In fact I already received the tests. After reading your post, I looked at the info sheet and it DOES say that Test 5 is for children going into 10th, 11th, and 12th grades. That's not what I was looking for, either. Can you tell me more about why you were unable to really evaluate your child's score? I was really counting on this test to give me a good idea of my child's strengths and weaknesses. I should've asked here before I ordered! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Well, I don't know how accurate a measurement it will be for comparing your children to today's public schoolers. It depends on whether or not they've renormed the 1970s version. If you really want to compare your kids to today's students, you should use a current test. OTOH, if you want to see how your kids measure up to a more reasonable educational "standard", the 1970s test is a better choice. I think that it depends on how the percentages are calculated. With a standardized test, two different things are happening. First the student is getting a raw score. This is the score that shows how many of the questions in each area were answered correctly. So a score of 6 out of 10 on a section indicates that the student got four of the questions wrong. But wait, this might not be a bad thing. In order for the test instrument to be able to measure a wide range of students well, there have to be some questions that most students will get wrong, but that some will be able to answer. So missing a few on a comprehension section or a math section, doesn't always mean that there is a problem. So then you turn to the percentages. The percentages will tell you where your child's score in each section was compared to the other students who took that test. So they might get 6 out of 10 in a section but score in the 85 percentile, meaning that only 15% of the students taking the test got more questions right in that section. On the other hand, they might get 9 out of 10 and only get 75% because most students got all the questions in that section right. I don't know enough about the CAT to say if the 1970 date makes a difference. It partly depends on how it is administered. If there is a large body of students taking the 1970 version, then the percentages will show your student's standing against that large group. In other words, it could be an older test instrument that still gives current percentiles. If the percentile is calculated against how students did when the test was widely given (say 15-30 years ago), then it might skew the percentiles. On the other hand, if you are just looking to see if they are generally getting on target for a grade level, then it might not be an issue. I hope this is helpful, Sebastian Percival Blakeney Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I decided I want to test two of my kids this year. I just wanted something easy that I could administer at home (I don't have a BA). One other option for testing if this is just for your own information. Some Virginia has tests for their state standards of learning. These test knowledge of the items that they have decided a fourth grader or a sixth grader should know. Previous years tests are posted online at the Virginia DOE website so the public can see what is being tested and to provide a bank of practice tests. When we were living overseas and I had no requirement to do tests, I would occasionally print out the older tests and give them to my kids. I didn't get any percentile of how they did compared to other students, but I was able to find several topics that they hadn't mastered yet. Sometimes it was a matter of my not having taught that topic (especially in science). Other times they didn't understand the format of the question. And other times it was a matter of just not having learned as much as I had taught. The downsides to these tests are that they are benchmark tests based on a specific set of standards. They aren't going to focus much on Ancient Rome and Greece. And they may be too hard or too easy, depending on special needs and abilities in your child. However, they are free and can be a useful tool. So depending on what you want to accomplish, this might be an option too. Sebastian Percival Blakeney Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKinTX Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 I hope this is helpful, Sebastian Percival Blakeney Academy Yes, definitely helpful, although I will probably be back here bugging y'all once I receive the results. Hopefully you can help me translate them. Thanks for your informative response! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I will politely disagree with your mother, I do not feel that we learned less, we did learn differently. I have one in public school and have been a very active public school volunteer for past 5 years, but I homeschool my oldest. I can assure you that in Texas, every day of school is devoted somehow to taking the TAKS test and getting a "commended performance" on it. My youngest is in second, she is in public school. She has a TAKS 3rd grade booklet that she is supposed to work on several times a week, preparing her for the 3rd grade TAKS. She also goes to Study Island (another lets prepare them for the TAKS test). The past two weeks I have learned the following and irritating jingles from the school kids "Taking Taks Test is lots of fun, lets learn how to do it....and the little jingle breaks down all the parts of the writing test that is coming in March. These kids are drillled to take the test, we were never drilled daily on taking a test when I was in school in the 70s and 80's. Have you had your child take one of the released TAKS tests? You might be surprised at how well they do. At the very minimum, you could have your kids take it (you can print it out or do it online) and then show your mom that your kids are keeping up with the kids in public school.http://www.tea.state.tx.us/student.assessment/resources/release/taks/index.html Oh and I think the 1970 CAT test is considered a "standard" and quality test...nothing dumbed down on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKinTX Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 Mom2GirlsTX, Thanks for your input. I'm really surprised that so much time goes into the TAKS test! I can't believe there are jingles and everything! I will have my kids take the TAKS online...thanks for the suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKinTX Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 So depending on what you want to accomplish, this might be an option too. Sebastian Percival Blakeney Academy This sounds good; thanks Sebastian! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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