Punishment for 5 year old with a smart mouth?

[Remudamom]

Okay, I'll play. Hi, my name is Lee and I was spanked as a child. I knew why and I deserved it. I did not rebel, but straightened my act up because I knew my parents loved me and wanted the best for me. I have a close relationship with both my parents today (as always) and hope I can do as well with my children.

[GreenKitty]

DD5 is having a very smart mouth lately. She is corrected every single time, and told it is not OK to speak that way. And I give her a more appropriate way to say what she is trying to say (if it applies). This is not working. We have tried timeouts and taking things away, too. She seems to thrive on negative attention she gets from it. We have also tried ignoring it....didn't work either. This is all new to us because DS has never had any behavior problems. What types of punishments or techniques have worked for you?

 

Focus on the positives and give her lots of positive attention. Keep her close to you and encourage her to help with things you do around the house.

[Remudamom]

Jenny, no one said anything negative about the people that encouraged other discipline and yet there were people "getting sick" etc. over some posts. :glare:

 

 

No kidding. What a lack of tolerance of diversity.

[OnTheBrink]

The only thing that makes me sick is parents who contribute to the self-entitled attitude of their children. Lack of boundaries and self control. We have a bunch of kids who think they are the center of the universe and no one has the right to hurt their feelings or make them *Feel* bad. Lack of dicipline leads to failure in life. Period. There is an enormous difference between spanking and beating or abuse.:001_rolleyes:

 

But spanking is not PC, so lets try to figure out how to make them feel good and not damage their fragile psyche..:glare:

 

:iagree:

[Lovedtodeath]

Maybe she's picking it up from you. Not trying to disrespect you, but if you spank in anger perhaps you also have a sassy mouth. Often when I see bad behaviors in my children it's like I'm looking in a mirror (and I cringe.)

 

I have been having a big problem with DD. Yes, I do say things like that. Shouldn't there be different rules for them? For example... I am on the phone or working so I shush her. I tell her she is irritating me. A child shouldn't be able to copy that, right?:confused:

 

Or... she continues the behavior after telling her to stop. We yell at her b/c nothing else makes her listen. Spanking only makes her worse. Standing in the corner has stopped working. (She knows how to refuse.) So we yell at her means that she has the right to copy that and yell at us?

 

What if we spank her? Why is that different? Should you tell me that I have taught her that it is okay to spank me?

 

I am honestly confused here, not trying to be snarky.

[Remudamom]

Be as easy as possible, as firm as necessary.

[Remudamom]

Well, assuming that I'm not on your ignore list...........it's never too late to start over. If you aren't happy with the methods you've been using, then have a talk with your child. Tell her that you've been wrong, you are apologizing for it and you're going to start over. Then tell her what is going to happen from now on when she smarts off to you, and stick to it.

 

Sometimes it will help you to stay calm if you mentally prepare yourself for the worst, and think about what your response will be. And Carmen, your children are very young, please don't feel defeated.

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, assuming that I'm not on your ignore list...........And Carmen, your children are very young, please don't feel defeated.

 

LOL! You are not. And you are making me cry!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not in a bad way! :grouphug:;)

Edited March 12, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[GreenKitty]

My daycare kids are all under 2 1/2, so it's not from them. But about a month ago she started preschool at a local church, for a couple hours each morning. She really is enjoying it, but maybe she's picking up some bad behaviors there....or the bad behaviors she had already are getting worse. :confused:

 

Maybe she feels the time you spend with the daycare children is taking away from her time with you. Acting out, good or bad, gets attention from you which she wants. Being as she doesn't get the positive attention she needs from you, then she has found another way to get your attention. And she likes the attention she gets from you, it's attention!

[Lovedtodeath]

My son, especially, has always responded very well to positive reinforcement. Punishment tends to make him just dig in his heels and become increasingly belligerant and unpleasant. Putting him on notice of what we expect and then praising for it (while isolating for infractions) seems to be the most effective approach for some kids.

 

You know, I hadn't read all the responses before I posted, and I wish I had. I would have stayed out of this entirely. Well, more precisely, I wish I had never read any of it. I agree with you: Reading this makes me want to cry.

I am glad you didn't!

 

I really didn't want this to turn into a "is spanking good or bad" thread. I'm sure it works for some. It's just not for us. And it doesn't work of my DD.

:iagree:

[OnTheBrink]

I have been having a big problem with DD. Yes, I do say things like that. Shouldn't there be different rules for them? For example... I am on the phone or working so I shush her. I tell her she is irritating me. A child shouldn't be able to copy that, right?:confused:

 

Or... she continues the behavior after telling her to stop. We yell at her b/c nothing else makes her listen. Spanking only makes her worse. Standing in the corner has stopped working. (She knows how to refuse.) So we yell at her means that she has the right to copy that and yell at us?

 

What if we spank her? Why is that different? Should you tell me that I have taught her that it is okay to spank me?

 

I am honestly confused here, not trying to be snarky.

 

I'm coming from the position of having a mother who yelled, spanked in anger, was basically out of control when things didn't go her way. I'm not saying you're out of control, or like my mother, but hear me out.

 

When I got old enough to realize that my mother's screaming fits and lashes at me with her hands, belts, hair brushes and shoes really meant she had lost all control, I realized *I* had the power. I could p*ss her off or not, it depended on my mood. Let me tell you, a child who thinks they're in control and who believes Mom can't keep it together is a child who's insecure and distrustful.

 

From what you've posted, your dd knows how to refuse standing in a corner. She's taken control and she realizes that she has the power. You need to take that back, ESPECIALLY with girls. IMO, and IME, girls who are allowed to take the control in a family are the hardest to contend with when they're teens. It's important to rein her back in NOW.

 

My first suggestion is, no more yelling. Keep your voice calm and even toned. It's hard, I know, but you have to garner that control of yourself. Second, tell her, "If you {misbehave in whatever way}, then you will have earned for yourself {loss of tv time, or whatever}." She'll test it, to be sure. When she sasses, simply say, "I'm sorry you've chosen to speak to me that way. You have lost the privilege to watch SpongeBob tonight." No need to get all elevated about it, just be simple and matter of fact. When she starts to pitch a hissy, simply pick her up and put her in her room and lock the door. Let her have her hissy. If she messes the room, she gets to clean it when she calms down. Don't continue to pile on repercussions to the initial offense if she completely overreacts. For example, if she tosses a fit, don't say, "Well, you've now lost 2 Spongebobs!" That's a tit for tat that's futile. Make every consequence be directly related to the offense. She lost SpongeBob because she chose to be sassy. She's sent to her room for having a fit. She's cleaning the room because she chose to thrash it during the fit.

 

Kids need to know what's acceptable and that you're in control and that you mean what you say. Any deviation of that paradigm and they've gotcha and getting their respect or getting them to obey is extremely difficult. I think the most important things to remember is: stay in control of your own emotions, set limits, expect them to be tested, and stick to your guns with consistency.

 

I'm a believer in spanking, but I rarely have to do it because I've learned from my mother and from mistakes made with my own son that spanking as a default doesn't work.

 

I hope this has helped. My dd isn't perfect by any stretch and she definitely gets the mouth going, but it's quickly corrected.

[Haiku]

A child shouldn't be able to copy that, right?:confused:

 

 

The problem is that kids don't know that they shouldn't copy us. The "Do as I say, not as I do" thing doesn't work with little kids. They don't really understand that we, as parents, shouldn't be doing and saying the things we are doing and saying. Their experience with the world is pretty much limited to how we present it to them. If Mom and Dad tell them they are irritating, then it must be ok to tell people they are irritating, right?

 

We all make mistakes as parents and, to some degree, we have to "start over" frequently. I am working on being more careful of what I say to my kids. I have made mistakes in the past. What I have noticed is that when I am calmer, they are calmer, and the fewer impolite things I say to them, the fewer impolite things they say to me.

 

Tara

[CLHCO]

Okay, I'll play. Hi, my name is Lee and I was spanked as a child. I knew why and I deserved it. I did not rebel, but straightened my act up because I knew my parents loved me and wanted the best for me. I have a close relationship with both my parents today (as always) and hope I can do as well with my children.

 

My mother spanked me with a paddle when I was about 2. She felt guilty, read a book that she shouldn't, then spent the rest of my childhood getting mad and screaming at me. I got one spanking after that, in anger and out of the blue. That one I remember and still have no clue why. I think we were being noisy, she screamed, I was immune to screaming and didn't "hear" it.

 

I can't blame her for the screaming anymore. She had to do something when she was given nothing else, because I was a big time smart-mouth brat and would roll my eyes at her attempts to talk to me about how I needed to do things better. :tongue_smilie:

 

Not all sweet childhood angels are created equal.

 

To the OP, I was that kid. Don't spank if you don't want to. I don't much, just be sure to do something, make it matter-of-fact, don't guilt, don't talk until she rolls her eyes and tunes you out (few words - trust me), and if it continues until you want to become a screamer, find something more effective.

 

I'm going to try to take my own advice with my son now. (Apples don't fall far from the tree.)

[Elaine]

The only thing that makes me sick is parents who contribute to the self-entitled attitude of their children. Lack of boundaries and self control. We have a bunch of kids who think they are the center of the universe and no one has the right to hurt their feelings or make them *Feel* bad. Lack of dicipline leads to failure in life. Period. There is an enormous difference between spanking and beating or abuse.:001_rolleyes:

 

But spanking is not PC, so lets try to figure out how to make them feel good and not damage their fragile psyche..:glare:

 

 

Have I told you lately that I love you?:D

[RJH]

Maybe she feels the time you spend with the daycare children is taking away from her time with you. Acting out, good or bad, gets attention from you which she wants. Being as she doesn't get the positive attention she needs from you, then she has found another way to get your attention. And she likes the attention she gets from you, it's attention!

 

Neither of my children care for the fact that I do daycare. I wish I didn't have to either. But the fact is, I have to do what's best for my family. And putting food on the table, and a roof over their head, is what's best. I have told my children it is what it is, and we have to make it work. I'm glad that I can still make money while staying home.

[runninmommy]

:blushing: aw, the feeling is mutual.

 

 

 

Have I told you lately that I love you?:D

[dragons in the flower bed]

The only thing that makes me sick is parents who contribute to the self-entitled attitude of their children. Lack of boundaries and self control. We have a bunch of kids who think they are the center of the universe and no one has the right to hurt their feelings or make them *Feel* bad. Lack of dicipline leads to failure in life. Period. There is an enormous difference between spanking and beating or abuse.:001_rolleyes:

 

But spanking is not PC, so lets try to figure out how to make them feel good and not damage their fragile psyche..:glare:

 

I'm not opposed to spanking because it's not PC, or because it hurts a kid's feelings. I don't do it because it's an inferior, incomplete, and ineffective method of teaching a child to behave. Sitting a kid down and saying, "We have a problem. You are, on a daily basis, hurting my feelings with your words. I need that to stop, so let's brainstorm some ways to help you remember not to do that," establishes a boundary just as well as hitting a kid, and it prepares kids for other relationships, where they can't spank their spouse or coworker to get them to stop being snippy. Walking them through the process of identifying their own negative behavior patterns and ceasing them develops their ability to self-criticise and self-discipline. Plus treating them respectfully sets a good example. Getting to the root of why they're doing it or what triggers it also stops the behavior faster than just treating the symptom. So the nonviolent approach covers more bases. A spanking is like a band-aid, comparatively.

[katemary63]

Solamichella had a great post and some good advice.

 

First. I agree. NO YELLING. It simply makes things worse. Don't take her disobedience personally and you may feel less like yelling. She is testing. All kids do. It isn't about you or how she feels about you.

 

Think hard about the fact that your dd is willing to refuse to do a time out. That simply should not be the case and it is your fault. This is not to criticize you.....but to say that there is something you should have done by now that would ensure that your 5 year old obeys you and it clearly hasn't been done. If you don't understand that something is missing, then you can't fix it, so don't take it personally, just understand it.

 

I would deal with this emediatley. When you say to a DD, "Do _____," or "Go _____" or "Sit there for 10 minutes." She absolutely, under all circumstances must do it. If you don't want to spank, ( which to be honest, would have ensured you obedience long ago) then don't. But do SOMETHING (other then yelling) that ensures that she obeys. Being strong willed has nothing to do with it. I had the strong willed child from h*ll. But he NEVER, NEVER disobeyed a direct order over the age of, say, 2. That is because he KNEW it was not worth it. None of my girls did either. I simply would never have allowed it.

 

You know how the Bible says, "Fear the Lord." Well, your kids should have the same type of "fear" for the authority of their parents. It's not terror. It's healthy respect. My DS's girlfriends, age 19, just the other day said, "I would NEVER do that, my dad would kill me!" THAT is what you want! She knows her dad won't kill her. She ADORES her dad and they have a very close, intimate relationship. He is a fantastic father. But she also respects and "fears" his authority in her life, even at the age of 19. I don't know weather he ever spanked her when she was a toddler, but I do know one thing. When she was little, and he told her to do something, you better believe she did it.

[Jennifer in NH]

I'm coming from the position of having a mother who yelled, spanked in anger, was basically out of control when things didn't go her way. I'm not saying you're out of control, or like my mother, but hear me out.

 

When I got old enough to realize that my mother's screaming fits and lashes at me with her hands, belts, hair brushes and shoes really meant she had lost all control, I realized *I* had the power. I could p*ss her off or not, it depended on my mood. Let me tell you, a child who thinks they're in control and who believes Mom can't keep it together is a child who's insecure and distrustful.

 

From what you've posted, your dd knows how to refuse standing in a corner. She's taken control and she realizes that she has the power. You need to take that back, ESPECIALLY with girls. IMO, and IME, girls who are allowed to take the control in a family are the hardest to contend with when they're teens. It's important to rein her back in NOW.

 

My first suggestion is, no more yelling. Keep your voice calm and even toned. It's hard, I know, but you have to garner that control of yourself. Second, tell her, "If you {misbehave in whatever way}, then you will have earned for yourself {loss of tv time, or whatever}." She'll test it, to be sure. When she sasses, simply say, "I'm sorry you've chosen to speak to me that way. You have lost the privilege to watch SpongeBob tonight." No need to get all elevated about it, just be simple and matter of fact. When she starts to pitch a hissy, simply pick her up and put her in her room and lock the door. Let her have her hissy. If she messes the room, she gets to clean it when she calms down. Don't continue to pile on repercussions to the initial offense if she completely overreacts. For example, if she tosses a fit, don't say, "Well, you've now lost 2 Spongebobs!" That's a tit for tat that's futile. Make every consequence be directly related to the offense. She lost SpongeBob because she chose to be sassy. She's sent to her room for having a fit. She's cleaning the room because she chose to thrash it during the fit.

 

Kids need to know what's acceptable and that you're in control and that you mean what you say. Any deviation of that paradigm and they've gotcha and getting their respect or getting them to obey is extremely difficult. I think the most important things to remember is: stay in control of your own emotions, set limits, expect them to be tested, and stick to your guns with consistency.

 

I'm a believer in spanking, but I rarely have to do it because I've learned from my mother and from mistakes made with my own son that spanking as a default doesn't work.

 

I hope this has helped. My dd isn't perfect by any stretch and she definitely gets the mouth going, but it's quickly corrected.

 

 

What wonderful advice!

[runninmommy]

I'm not opposed to spanking because it's not PC, or because it hurts a kid's feelings. I don't do it because it's an inferior, incomplete, and ineffective method of teaching a child to behave. Sitting a kid down and saying, "We have a problem. You are, on a daily basis, hurting my feelings with your words. I need that to stop, so let's brainstorm some ways to help you remember not to do that," establishes a boundary just as well as hitting a kid, and it prepares kids for other relationships, where they can't spank their spouse or coworker to get them to stop being snippy. Walking them through the process of identifying their own negative behavior patterns and ceasing them develops their ability to self-criticise and self-discipline. Plus treating them respectfully sets a good example. Getting to the root of why they're doing it or what triggers it also stops the behavior faster than just treating the symptom. So the nonviolent approach covers more bases. A spanking is like a band-aid, comparatively.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Not inferior, incomplete or ineffective.

Spanking is a tool to be used alongside your very basic commonsense approach to parenting mentioned above. It is not used as a sole method but and incorporated one. I think you have a picture of us spanking at the drop of a hat w/o love, explanation or teaching. That is nonsense. Discipline is about teaching, molding and shaping. Those of us who spank are not abusive, inferior parents. :001_rolleyes:

[*********]

I'm coming from the position of having a mother who yelled, spanked in anger, was basically out of control when things didn't go her way. I'm not saying you're out of control, or like my mother, but hear me out.

 

When I got old enough to realize that my mother's screaming fits and lashes at me with her hands, belts, hair brushes and shoes really meant she had lost all control, I realized *I* had the power. I could p*ss her off or not, it depended on my mood. Let me tell you, a child who thinks they're in control and who believes Mom can't keep it together is a child who's insecure and distrustful.

 

From what you've posted, your dd knows how to refuse standing in a corner. She's taken control and she realizes that she has the power. You need to take that back, ESPECIALLY with girls. IMO, and IME, girls who are allowed to take the control in a family are the hardest to contend with when they're teens. It's important to rein her back in NOW.

 

My first suggestion is, no more yelling. Keep your voice calm and even toned. It's hard, I know, but you have to garner that control of yourself. Second, tell her, "If you {misbehave in whatever way}, then you will have earned for yourself {loss of tv time, or whatever}." She'll test it, to be sure. When she sasses, simply say, "I'm sorry you've chosen to speak to me that way. You have lost the privilege to watch SpongeBob tonight." No need to get all elevated about it, just be simple and matter of fact. When she starts to pitch a hissy, simply pick her up and put her in her room and lock the door. Let her have her hissy. If she messes the room, she gets to clean it when she calms down. Don't continue to pile on repercussions to the initial offense if she completely overreacts. For example, if she tosses a fit, don't say, "Well, you've now lost 2 Spongebobs!" That's a tit for tat that's futile. Make every consequence be directly related to the offense. She lost SpongeBob because she chose to be sassy. She's sent to her room for having a fit. She's cleaning the room because she chose to thrash it during the fit.

 

Kids need to know what's acceptable and that you're in control and that you mean what you say. Any deviation of that paradigm and they've gotcha and getting their respect or getting them to obey is extremely difficult. I think the most important things to remember is: stay in control of your own emotions, set limits, expect them to be tested, and stick to your guns with consistency.

 

I'm a believer in spanking, but I rarely have to do it because I've learned from my mother and from mistakes made with my own son that spanking as a default doesn't work.

 

I hope this has helped. My dd isn't perfect by any stretch and she definitely gets the mouth going, but it's quickly corrected.

 

:iagree: Michelle, this is why you ROCK. :001_smile: I wanna be like you when I grow up...

[Jean in Wisc]

I was once told that people would not change their behavior until the consequences "hurt" more than the action.

 

So, what is important to this child? A favorite video? staying up at bedtime? time with friends? It is best if somehow the two have a natural relationship--ie. the child who HATES to be alone in his room gets sent to his room when his speech is unacceptable (if you can't be polite with people, then you are not allowed to be with people). Or the child who hates to help with housecleaning spends time with you each time the speech is unacceptable ("If you cannot speak nicely, then you must stay here by me so that I can monitor your speech. We are going to clean the bathroom--you start by sweeping the floor.")

 

Explain the relationship between her language and her freedom and carry through. It can take months for the child to grow up enough to make the connection and change behavior, but my strong-willed drive-me-crazy kids have been good, easy-going adolescents. This is your goal--to win the battles prior to the hormone years!!!!!!!!!

 

I struggled SO MUCH with certain behaviors with my children when they were small. It took a lot of effort to find the parental response that made the child to wake up. We have two exceedingly strong-willed kids, and I spent a lot of my time trying to teach acceptable behavior. IT WAS WORTH EVERY MINUTE! I love my teens :).

 

More on this, including what to say and how to love them through this stage of life is here: http://shadesofwhite.typepad.com/shades_of_white/2008/03/tomato-staking.html

 

Blessings,

Jean

 

P.S. I see some wonderful advice here on loving them through this stage. That is such a valid thing, too. I found that my kids needed love, discipline, and a lot of time to get through these things. (()) It is a lot of hard work.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Jean in Wisc

[Joanne]

The only thing that makes me sick is parents who contribute to the self-entitled attitude of their children. Lack of boundaries and self control. We have a bunch of kids who think they are the center of the universe and no one has the right to hurt their feelings or make them *Feel* bad. Lack of dicipline leads to failure in life. Period. There is an enormous difference between spanking and beating or abuse.:001_rolleyes:

 

But spanking is not PC, so lets try to figure out how to make them feel good and not damage their fragile psyche..:glare:

 

Camille,

 

I have stayed out of this since my first response in the thread since I do not want to have a spanking debate.

 

However, when a person equates not *spanking* with lack of discipline, I have to say somerthing. To blame the troubles of contemporary families on "not spanking" is myopic and not accurate. The overwhelming majority of parents still use spanking in some form. In addition, spanking does not define discipiline.

 

To equate not spanking with permissiveness is as wrong as equating spanking with abuse.

[secular_mom]

Nevermind, I don't want to be involved in this conversation.

Edited March 12, 2009 by secular_mom

[runninmommy]

Camille,

 

I have stayed out of this since my first response in the thread since I do not want to have a spanking debate.

 

However, when a person equates not *spanking* with lack of discipline, I have to say somerthing. To blame the troubles of contemporary families on "not spanking" is myopic and not accurate. The overwhelming majority of parents still use spanking in some form. In addition, spanking does not define discipiline.

 

To equate not spanking with permissiveness is as wrong as equating spanking with abuse.

 

I never said spanking defined discipline. I said it was part of discipline. There are correlations between permissiveness and self-entitled out of control kids. Spanking, when used correctly IS effective. I never issued a blanket statement on it as you are.

 

Absurdity, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

Edited March 12, 2009 by runninmommy

[Lovedtodeath]

Camille,

 

I have stayed out of this since my first response in the thread since I do not want to have a spanking debate.

 

However, when a person equates not *spanking* with lack of discipline, I have to say somerthing. To blame the troubles of contemporary families on "not spanking" is myopic and not accurate. The overwhelming majority of parents still use spanking in some form. In addition, spanking does not define discipiline.

 

To equate not spanking with permissiveness is as wrong as equating spanking with abuse.

:cheers2:

[Tami]

DD5 is having a very smart mouth lately. She is corrected every single time, and told it is not OK to speak that way. And I give her a more appropriate way to say what she is trying to say (if it applies). This is not working. We have tried timeouts and taking things away, too. She seems to thrive on negative attention she gets from it. We have also tried ignoring it....didn't work either. This is all new to us because DS has never had any behavior problems. What types of punishments or techniques have worked for you?

 

If what you are doing has not worked, I would simply try a structured approach and go with it. This will give you a concrete, do-able way to deal with behavior issues. Some suggestions are "Parenting with Love and Logic," "Raising Respectful Kids," and "1, 2, 3 Magic." Any of this will eliminate the arguing and fighting and get you back in the driver's seat fast.

 

Blessings!

[RJH]

If what you are doing has not worked, I would simply try a structured approach and go with it. This will give you a concrete, do-able way to deal with behavior issues. Some suggestions are "Parenting with Love and Logic," "Raising Respectful Kids," and "1, 2, 3 Magic." Any of this will eliminate the arguing and fighting and get you back in the driver's seat fast.

 

 

I have read all these and do a combo of all 3. They work great with DS. :lol: I'm just going to stick with it for DD. I know she will quit testing me eventually. She just has a stronger will, and a cloudier personality.

 

And not to add fuel to the fire, but I don't see how any parent can "spank with love". Hitting is not a loving thing to do to anyone of any age. So to say to your child "I love you, but now I will hit you for misbehaving" is a contradiction to me. And I know my DD sees it as that.

[LilyK]

One child sees it as a challenge she's more than happy to accept. Another child starts to seek out more and more negative attention.

 

 

 

A child who seeks out negative attention has other issues beyond spanking or not spanking. I think spanking or not spanking is not really the point. I think discipline needs to balanced by lots of love as well as a healthy dose of fear. A child should be somewhat afraid of getting in trouble (whether it is spanking or not). If he is rising to meet the challenge, no matter what that challenge is, I think there are underlying issues.

[GreenKitty]

Neither of my children care for the fact that I do daycare. I wish I didn't have to either. But the fact is, I have to do what's best for my family. And putting food on the table, and a roof over their head, is what's best. I have told my children it is what it is, and we have to make it work. I'm glad that I can still make money while staying home.

 

I understand.

[Tami]

I have read all these and do a combo of all3..

 

May I suggest that you stop doing a combo, and pick one for now? I think 1, 2, 3 Magic is super simple. Follow it to a "t" and it will eliminate the power struggle.

 

Trying to do too many approaches leads to confusion, and it is not working, according to what you said. Pick your favorite approach, re-read it, and IMPLEMENT it consistently and without exception.

 

I don't judge others in regards to spanking/not spanking. Spanking has been a time-tested tool used for thousands f years, and since permissive parenting has been the norm, kids have become little barbarians. Schools have scores of teachers who cannnot do their jobs due to rude, spoiled, undisciplined children, so I applaud parents who endeavor to train their children using whatever method works best in their family and situation.

 

In my day, kids were spanked. Self esteem was less of an issue for us, than it seems to be for kids now. Children were well-behaved in school, and I never saw a teacher disrespected. I don't know what the answer is, but some of the best kids I know come from families who spank. Spanking is not evil, and nonspanking is not evil. Do what you feel comfortable with and what will raise a respectful child. I try not to judge others' discipline styles.

[Haiku]

A child who seeks out negative attention has other issues beyond spanking or not spanking.

 

You quoted me, but my post had absolutely nothing to do with spanking. I didn't even mention spanking. But thanks for your 30-cent analysis of my children. ;)

 

Tara

[beansprouts]

*Cindy wonders why you all keep doing this to yourselves and each other*

[runninmommy]

May I suggest that you stop doing a combo, and pick one for now? I think 1, 2, 3 Magic is super simple. Follow it to a "t" and it will eliminate the power struggle.

 

Trying to do too many approaches leads to confusion, and it is not working, according to what you said. Pick your favorite approach, re-read it, and IMPLEMENT it consistently and without exception.

 

I don't judge others in regards to spanking/not spanking. Spanking has been a time-tested tool used for thousands f years, and since permissive parenting has been the norm, kids have become little barbarians. Schools have scores of teachers who cannnot do their jobs due to rude, spoiled, undisciplined children, so I applaud parents who endeavor to train their children using whatever method works best in their family and situation.

 

In my day, kids were spanked. Self esteem was less of an issue for us, than it seems to be for kids now. Children were well-behaved in school, and I never saw a teacher disrespected. I don't know what the answer is, but some of the best kids I know come from families who spank. Spanking is not evil, and nonspanking is not evil. Do what you feel comfortable with and what will raise a respectful child. I try not to judge others' discipline styles.

 

:iagree:

[gandpsmommy]

I'm not opposed to spanking because it's not PC, or because it hurts a kid's feelings. I don't do it because it's an inferior, incomplete, and ineffective method of teaching a child to behave. Sitting a kid down and saying, "We have a problem. You are, on a daily basis, hurting my feelings with your words. I need that to stop, so let's brainstorm some ways to help you remember not to do that," establishes a boundary just as well as hitting a kid, and it prepares kids for other relationships, where they can't spank their spouse or coworker to get them to stop being snippy. Walking them through the process of identifying their own negative behavior patterns and ceasing them develops their ability to self-criticise and self-discipline. Plus treating them respectfully sets a good example. Getting to the root of why they're doing it or what triggers it also stops the behavior faster than just treating the symptom. So the nonviolent approach covers more bases. A spanking is like a band-aid, comparatively.

 

What a great post. I really appreciated it.

[KidsHappen]

I haven't read all of the replies in this thread so maybe some of this is a repeat but I can tell you what has worked with my children. I have six and they don't all respond to the same thing.

 

With the holdest three a light smack on the mouth cured this sort of behavior after two or three times. Only one time with one child. I also spanked these children. It did work. And all of them are much older now and constantly tell me that my change in child rearing tactics is for the worse. I am much less severe with my younger children and to tell you the truth they really are not as well behaved as the older ones were. The third child was the one that someone called the cops about me disciplining. The cops showed up talked with me, my husband, my mother and my son and then informed me that they would have done the same thing and have a nice day.

 

With the 4th child we grabbed her firmly by the sholders one time and scolded her. The child went into hysterics and started yelling child abusement. Now the rest of the family was rolling on the floor in laughter because this child is the princess of the family. Spoiled and not as well behaved as the older siblings. We found that what worked with her was bartering. You do what we ask of you and then we will be more inclined to do what you would like of us. This child is 16 now and still a bit difficult sometimes.

 

Child #5 is bi-polar and has been difficult since birth. Until she was 8 or 9 and began treatment, really the only way to handle her was to do our very best to prevent a meltdown in the first place and if one began to do what ever we could to calm her after that. Once treatment began and she reached a perfect level of medication, it was like a 180 degree change in her behavior. Because of my own bi-polar, I can generally tell if her misbehavior is caused by her inability to do something or just being a typical child. Each situation is handled differently. Extreme meltdowns are treated with xanax. Moderate difficulties are handled by giving her time and space. But genral misbehavior is handled by ignoring her. When I tell her that she is misbehavior and I don't want to interact with her because of it, it doesn't take her long to shape up. Works for her sisters' interactions with her as well. Grounding also works with her to a certain extent.

 

With the last child, just telling her that she is being mean and nasty and hurting my feelings works quiet well.

 

All of this to say, you have to meet each child where they are and figure out what works for them. For your child, I would try telling her it hurts your feelings first. If that doesn't work then try telling her that if she can't be nice to you then you are really not motivated to be nice to her and finally lack of interaction, telling her that you don't want to interact with her when she is acting this way.

[Joanne]

Spanking has been a time-tested tool used for thousands f years, and since permissive parenting has been the norm, kids have become little barbarians. Schools have scores of teachers who cannnot do their jobs due to rude, spoiled, undisciplined children, so I applaud parents who endeavor to train their children using whatever method works best in their family and situation.

 

In my day, kids were spanked. Self esteem was less of an issue for us, than it seems to be for kids now. Children were well-behaved in school, and I never saw a teacher disrespected. I don't know what the answer is, but some of the best kids I know come from families who spank. Spanking is not evil, and nonspanking is not evil. Do what you feel comfortable with and what will raise a respectful child. I try not to judge others' discipline styles.

 

Again, please consider the reality that spanking does not exclusively equal discipline. The presence or absence of spanking says NOTHING about the quality of parenting or discipline in a home.

 

Good parents, teachers and caregivers have managed homes, classrooms, daycare centers and other settings with a variety of effective discipline tools; many times without spanking at all.

 

I agree with your percpetion that children are less disciplined today. I'd assert that it's multi-caused rather than spanking related. Indeed, I believe that children today are over PUNISHED but under disciplined.

[Joanne]

Children were well-behaved in school, and I never saw a teacher disrespected.

 

I don't mean to be snarky. Really, I don't. But if the above is true, how is it that parents talk about having spanked their kids, adults remember being spanked at home and school - but we are now looking back and asserting that children were well behaved and teachers respected?

 

I don't dispute that spanking can be "effective". I am, however, doubting the recall of days gone by.

[Tami]

I am, however, doubting the recall of days gone by.

 

Hey Joanne,

 

Maybe I'm just a ditz who can't remember my own childhood. Wow, you even know more than me about what went on in my childhood classrooms. The classrooms were out of control and I don't even remember it - that must be IT. Thanks for setting me straight. :lol:

[runninmommy]

Hey Joanne,

 

Maybe I'm just a ditz who can't remember my own childhood. Wow, you even know more than me about what went on in my childhood classrooms. The classrooms were out of control and I don't even remember it - that must be IT. Thanks for setting me straight. :lol:

 

Tami, you slay me.:lol: You've got spunk!

 

I just utilized the "ignore" feature for the first time. Maybe that will weed out some of the so called "experts".

[Tami]

Doing what to each other? I'm not sure what you mean, sorry. :tongue_smilie:

[SnowWhite]

I think the fact she has started preschool in the past month and the behavior has started recently is related. I'm not saying the preschool is giving her the example of being sassy. But the experience of preschool is making her more independent, more assertive. I think it is a bell that cannot be un-rung, so if she enjoys preschool and you like to have her go, I'd continue. Just be aware that this is a huge transition time for her and she will need time and patience to adjust. I would try to give her some special one on one time if at all possible, to play a board game or do a bit of reading aloud just to her. She probably feels a need to make sure you remember she is there, since she is missing what feels like a big portion of the day with you.

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, Joanne's website has helped me with my kid more than anything else I tried. 6 months ago I was posting that she was doing nothing but annoying people all day long. It was so much worse then. We have had a lot of issues so we are not 100% yet, but I have to say...

 

Joanne is an expert!

 

I do believe that the vast majority of children who are regularly spanked are well-behaved. I just wonder if that is a temporary effect, and not good for their long term relationships. DH still thinks that it is good to remind others that you are more physically powerful than them. I have to check him on it often.

[Joanne]

Maybe I'm just a ditz who can't remember my own childhood. Wow, you even know more than me about what went on in my childhood classrooms. The classrooms were out of control and I don't even remember it - that must be IT. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

Your extreme sarcasm aside, my point was that children were then and are now *children*. You are asserting they were well behaved but also implying the "need" for spanking them, even then.

 

Spanking didn't prevent problems or mature them.

[TXMomof4]

:iagree: If that doesn't work you could try soap too.

 

I have a very good friend that had vinegar in a spray bottle. Ugly mouth got an ugly taste. I got as far as the vinegar in the bottle, but dd LIKED the taste. :001_huh: I had the bottle on a shelf and she told my dh it was vinegar (he had been gone for a few weeks). He thought she was kidding and he squirted himself to show her it was water - you should have seen the look on his face. :lol: It was a priceless moment.

 

Anyway, the vinegar really worked for my friend. If my kids weren't weirdos in the taste department, I hope it would have worked for us. As it is, we use timeout in their room til they can figure out a nice way to say things.

[pqr]

Spanking didn't prevent problems or mature them.

 

Joanne,

 

I am sorry but, with respect, you are incorrect. Spanking did prevent problems. It taught children rules and delineated boundaries.

 

I went to a school that used the paddle. I can attest that it really hurt, and I still remember that whistle the thing made as the air rushed through the holes. Showing disrespect to a teacher would never have occurred if only because it was so far beyond the threshold for what we were spanked that I cannot conceive of a classmate ever getting that far.

 

I then went to a school which had; the touchy feely talks, detention, explanations about why we were behaving in an immature manner, mealy mouthed ruminating about how this was damaging to our self esteem and every other excuse and cop out going. Children were rude, disobedient and teachers were routinely ignored and harassed.

 

Both schools were predominantly white and middle class.

 

The difference:

 

The first had the courage to spank,

The second lacked that courage and hid behind excuses about "damaging" the child.

 

The result:

 

the first produced generally law abiding citizens, the second saw a fair number in jail and generally did a disservice to society.

 

Spanking works, in the years since we have shirked from it we have seen a rise in problems at school and a general decline in decorum. I too recall "days gone by" and they were different.

 

pqr

[Colleen]

I've only skimmed this thread, but here are my thoughts on the subject:

 

1) I believe there is a correlation between her desire that you not provide daycare and her recent attendance at pre-school, and her increased negative behaviors. I'd try to make some changes in this regard.

 

2) Love on her through the bad behaviors, hard as that can be.

 

3) Be consistent in your actions and reactions.

 

4) Clearly explain consequences that will apply should she choose negative behaviors. The word to emphasize here is CHOOSE. If she chooses to be rude, for example, then she has made the choice to sit on her bed and do nothing (or whatever consequence you've explained beforehand).

 

Let me tell you a story about spanking, soap in the mouth, etcetera. I have nothing against those disciplinary tools per se (when doled out appropriately), except this: They've served no value in my life or the lives of my children. I have to smile when people say, "It only took one time..." because that's not been my reality. On the contrary, such negative punishment was merely part of a cycle.

 

I phased out spanking after my first couple of children because it just plain didn't work or make sense to me. It didn't make sense when I was on the receiving end, or serving as the administrator. Real life consequences (spanking, imo, is not "real life") do make sense. Even very small children can be presented with clear, logical choices and consequences.

 

In your daughter's case, telling her she "can't" talk that way isn't factual. Clearly, she can talk however she pleases. But again, the key is that she's aware of the consequences she'll receive upon making that choice. Sassy children don't get dessert, play time, a movie ~ whatever. Helping her understand now that her negative behaviors have negative consequences will be doing her a lifelong service.

 

Best to you!

[Mommy22alyns]

Our rule for potty mouth was that it wasn't for public use. You could go to into the bathroom and say all you wanted into the toilet. They did too!

 

 

I'm sidestepping the rest of the thread, but this just makes me :lol:. I send the girls into the bathroom to get out their potty words and sometimes it just cracks me up. Glad to know I'm not the only one!

[sassenach]

 

My first suggestion is, no more yelling. Keep your voice calm and even toned. It's hard, I know, but you have to garner that control of yourself. Second, tell her, "If you {misbehave in whatever way}, then you will have earned for yourself {loss of tv time, or whatever}." She'll test it, to be sure. When she sasses, simply say, "I'm sorry you've chosen to speak to me that way. You have lost the privilege to watch SpongeBob tonight." No need to get all elevated about it, just be simple and matter of fact. When she starts to pitch a hissy, simply pick her up and put her in her room and lock the door. Let her have her hissy. If she messes the room, she gets to clean it when she calms down. Don't continue to pile on repercussions to the initial offense if she completely overreacts. For example, if she tosses a fit, don't say, "Well, you've now lost 2 Spongebobs!" That's a tit for tat that's futile. Make every consequence be directly related to the offense. She lost SpongeBob because she chose to be sassy. She's sent to her room for having a fit. She's cleaning the room because she chose to thrash it during the fit.

 

Kids need to know what's acceptable and that you're in control and that you mean what you say. Any deviation of that paradigm and they've gotcha and getting their respect or getting them to obey is extremely difficult. I think the most important things to remember is: stay in control of your own emotions, set limits, expect them to be tested, and stick to your guns with consistency.

.

 

That's good stuff. With my strong willed child, superhuman calm and consistency have been key. Here are the things we've done that have yielded positive results-

 

*Keeping absolute control over my emotions and voice. Yelling does NOTHING to help with him. <raising my voice with my super compliant oldest has always been instantly effective, so I had to retrain myself>

 

*Consistency- if I let him get away with something once, he WILL try to walk all over me.

 

*Telling him in advanced what my expectations are and what the consequences will be for disobeying.

 

*Extra attention- This especially applies to time with my husband. I will take time to cuddle with him, read a book, ect. When dad takes him out, he usually gives a little "man of the house" pep talk. Things dh says to him have a deep impact. For your dd, she may need an extra dose of mommy time. Personally, I do not connect positive attention with bad behavior. In other words, if a child sasses me, I will not pull them up on my lap in that moment for a cuddle. I will make a point of it later on though.

 

*Jobs, work and overall busyness. My SWC is also my energy factory. I try to keep him very, very busy throughout the day. For your dd, I would consider keeping her close to your hip. Involve her in your work, give her jobs of her own.

 

 

Some general rules here-

 

*When I give them instruction or correction- they need to respond with "yes Mom." This lets me know that they hear and understand me.

 

*When someone wrongs another person (including talking back to me), the offender must apologize, "I am sorry <insert name>, I was wrong, would you please forgive me?" That apology has become key because my kids are the type who will not say "I was wrong, " unless they mean it. So it usually flushes out any unresolved heart issues or unconfessed wrongs by the other person.

 

*emotional outbursts and unkind talk are straight to your room offenses- every time.

 

Ds 6 is my SWC. We do not spank him. It does not work for him. We use time outs in his room, and taking away privileges. DD4 is my emotional outburst child, and probably the worst as far as sassiness. She gets time outs in her room and spankings, because it works. DD11 is my super-compliant child, our sheer disappointment has always been enough correction for her. Grounding also works, but is rarely necessary. They are ALL different.

 

You've received a lot of advice, I can only tell you what has worked in our house. I hope you find a solution that works for your dd. The only things that I think are universally effective are CONSISTENCY AND CALM. Whatever approach you decide on, do it without raising your voice and never waiver from the plan. (((HUGS))))

[5kidsforME]

Joanne is an expert!

 

 

 

 

No more than any other mother here.