Hey KathyJo. Good to see you around again

[Karenciavo]

How is everything going? What are you using for Latin these days?

[KathyJo]

How is everything going? What are you using for Latin these days?

 

Hey, Karen. :) We're working through Latin Prep and Lingua Latina. We fell off the Latin wagon last year (I'm a baaad LCC Mama, I know), so now we're having to gear up again. Other than that, we're just doing the farm thing and I'm attempting to wrap my mind around the fact that I'm homeschooling three out of four this year.

 

How have you been? I haven't chatted with you in a LONG time. :D

[Karenciavo]

I've been good, home-schooling three isn't that bad. Did you ever attempt Latin Book Two? I've been thinking about giving it a try.

[King Alfred Academy]

Hey Kathy...

 

Refresh my memory...how old are your kids?

[laylamcb]

Yo, Kathy Jo! I've always (secretly) admired your blog and your homeschooling approach. What else are you using for schooling besides Latin Prep and LL?

[Staci in MO]

I feel so much better now.

 

Although it's up for debate whether we were ever really ON the Latin wagon. Heh.

 

I ordered SYRWTLL, but it's taking forever to ship.

[KathyJo]

I've been good, home-schooling three isn't that bad. Did you ever attempt Latin Book Two? I've been thinking about giving it a try.

 

No, we switched over to LP before we finished LBO. I'm still not sure that was a wise decision to make because there's a lot about LBO that I feel is better than LP. We do have LBT on hand, though. Those are two that I won't get rid of.

[KathyJo]

Hey Kathy...

 

Refresh my memory...how old are your kids?

 

Brittney, Jared is 11, Nikki is 8, Joshua is 5, and Eli is almost 3. In just two more years, I'll have a Freshman and a Kindergartener in the house. Weird, huh?

[Karenciavo]

I hope you don't mind me bombarding you with questions, but... :D Are you still using CW? If so how far along is your oldest?

[KathyJo]

Yo, Kathy Jo! I've always (secretly) admired your blog and your homeschooling approach. What else are you using for schooling besides Latin Prep and LL?

 

Singapore Math and Classical Writing are two of our mainstays, though Jared moved on to Dolciani's Pre-Algebra this year. I think Nikki will start Lively Latin this year. We cover most other subjects through the liberal application of books. :)

 

I feel so much better now.

 

Although it's up for debate whether we were ever really ON the Latin wagon. Heh.

 

I ordered SYRWTLL, but it's taking forever to ship.

 

Um, yeah, but we got a cow! :) And I think that's been our big issue-- trying to mesh the homeschooling lifestyle with the farming lifestyle while still leaving me something that looks like a lifestyle. So to speak.

 

I like the tone of the Galore Park books, but the content of LBO better. However, the easier pace of LP was much desired while brushing off our sore bottoms from that fall off the wagon.

[KathyJo]

I hope you don't mind me bombarding you with questions, but... :D Are you still using CW? If so how far along is your oldest?

 

Not at all. :D I've got to purchase the student workbook for Diogenes: Maxim this weekend. I didn't order it when I bought the core because we've never used them, but apparently Diogenes is set up differently than the others so that it's no longer optional. So we'll be starting it as soon as the workbook arrives. I LOVE CW.

 

Oh, and we're also doing the LOTR curriculum this year. Have y'all done that?

[dragons in the flower bed]

Brittney, Jared is 11, Nikki is 8, Joshua is 5, and Eli is almost 3. In just two more years, I'll have a Freshman and a Kindergartener in the house. Weird, huh?

 

:::gulp:::

[laylamcb]

Not at all. :D I've got to purchase the student workbook for Diogenes: Maxim this weekend. I didn't order it when I bought the core because we've never used them, but apparently Diogenes is set up differently than the others so that it's no longer optional. So we'll be starting it as soon as the workbook arrives. I LOVE CW.

 

Oh, and we're also doing the LOTR curriculum this year. Have y'all done that?

 

LOTR curriculum?? Do tell! :bigear:

[Alana in Canada]

Hi!

 

I have a thread, buried here somewhere, about thinking about trying to do CW Homer without the workbook. I cannot tell you how muh I would love to hear how you did it (or have done it?). Have you a blog post you can refer me to (or something like that?)

 

Thanks.

[KathyJo]

:::gulp:::

 

Yeah, that's kind of how I feel. :}

 

Love your new avatar!

[dragons in the flower bed]

LOTR curriculum?? Do tell! :bigear:

 

I think she must mean this.

 

I'm curious to see how you like it, Kathy Jo. Cadron Creek's other units have been just too unit-study-like for me.

[KathyJo]

I think she must mean this.

 

I'm curious to see how you like it, Kathy Jo. Cadron Creek's other units have been just too unit-study-like for me.

 

I haven't seen any of those, but Stephanie gave me a thumbs up on the LOTR for the discussion questions. She and I rarely disagree on curricula, so I'm betting this one will work for us.

 

Beyond the discussion questions, I also feel like it's going to be an excellent way to start discussing various literary terms. We already discuss literary terms presented in CW in terms of the Harry Potter books, so learning them as they relate to well loved books is a tried and true method for us. :)

[laylamcb]

KJ, you brought up Singapore Math. We've done R&S this year, and...meh. Did Singapore "click" for all of your boys?

[KathyJo]

Hi!

 

I have a thread, buried here somewhere, about thinking about trying to do CW Homer without the workbook. I cannot tell you how muh I would love to hear how you did it (or have done it?). Have you a blog post you can refer me to (or something like that?)

 

Thanks.

 

Hey, Alana. :) First, I have to confess to being the Queen of Tweaking. Secondly, although CW added in the study of grammar to their program for the convenience of parents, my interest in CW was for the progymnasmata, not the grammar. One of the reasons that the student workbooks never appealed to me was that it seemed too much for too little once the grammar was removed. Third, we take a winter break instead of a summer break, so it's been a bit of time since we did our last Homer exercise. Please feel free to ask questions if I'm not clear enough. :)

 

In the back of the Homer core book are two schedules, one for doing Homer in two years and one for doing Homer in one year with older children. The schedules tell which lessons should be covered each lesson day and which writing project to do for the week. I did purchase the book of models that CW offers. So, we would read the model together, he'd narrate it orally, and we'd discuss it as necessary. Then we would read the pertinent parts of the core together. Jared had two CW comp books, one for exercises such as the sentence shuffles and outlines, and the other strictly for his writing projects. (One would do the trick, but for some reason this seemed better at the time.) We would choose unfamiliar vocabulary from the model which I had him alphabetize and look up in the dictionary (just for practice, and only about 5-7 words). He'd do the sentence shuffles (covering the grammar as needed to complete the exercise), his outline, and then start his writing project. Basically, everything you need to do is listed in the schedule at the back, so then you just go to the proper pages in the Core.

 

We DID have to pick out the sentences from the models for the shuffles. This was not a big deal to me since we did not do the diagramming (we covered diagramming using another resource). I believe that the student book not only has the sentences already chosen, but also has them simplified when necessary to complete the diagramming exercise, and they may focus on particular grammatical concepts. If you want to do the whole program including the grammar, this would be something to consider.

 

We also basically did the one year schedule in two years. :) This worked much better for us because it gave us two weeks for each writing project. I felt that was plenty, and I also felt that doing all the work in one week was just too much.

 

Please let me know if I can help more, though I may need to go glance at the core to refresh my memory. :)

 

ETA: We also often did some things orally, like Theon's analyses.

Edited March 1, 2009 by KathyJo

[KathyJo]

KJ, you brought up Singapore Math. We've done R&S this year, and...meh. Did Singapore "click" for all of your boys?

 

Not as much for Jared. Come to think of it, I don't think he did PM 6. We switched over to the Key to... Series books which work much better for him. He did continue to use the Challenging Word Problems books, though. It's funny, but the word problems in those books have far more challenging word problems than his pre-algebra book. :)

 

Nikki thrives with Singapore and with Miquon. He catches on very fast (he's third grade and doing PM 4) and doesn't need a lot of repetition. It's an excellent fit for him.

 

Joshua has done fine with the Early Bird books. It remains to be seen how he'll do with the PM series. :)

[Alana in Canada]

Thank you for your gracious reply. I pm'd you. For the sake of the thread, though, I will mention that I find it interesting that you put your finger right on the grammar. I've been rather drowning in it between CW, Latin, and Rod and Staff English (and even SWR in the beginning).

 

Oops, and now a question does occur to me. What, if anything, were you using for grammar?

 

And another--you don't think grammar is necessary for the progymnasmata? Is doing the grammar just a way to approach it--a methodology? Why is that approach taken by the CW authors (and not another)? Why is it there at all if it isn't part of the progymnasmata, I guess is what I'm wondering.

 

What are the goals of the progymnasmata as they relate to Homer--and how is the grammar expendable within that framework?

 

Um, please don't feel obligated to reply. I was just thinking out loud and I'm afraid I got a bit carried away. (But then again, if you've time to spare....)

[KathyJo]

You're quite welcome, and I'm glad you found it helpful. :)

 

I make no claims to being an expert on the progym. However, my understanding is that the progymnasmata are the writing exercises only. Classical Composition does teach the progym without adding grammar, and I considered using it, but I really love CW so much that I'd rather just tweak it. I believe the authors added the grammar to make it a complete LA program rather than just a writing program.

 

There are overlapping areas, of course, with grammar and writing. However, even CW uses Harvey's for the grammar study and merely incorporates additional exercises directly from the models. I'm not opposed to this as it does make the grammar more relevant and it also has the student dealing with real sentences instead of ones manufactured for the purpose of the study of grammar. I prefer using real sentences from lit, especially for beginning grammar studies with my little guys. However, there's a catch 22 there. As the grammar becomes more complex, it becomes more and more difficult to take a systematic approach to grammar while using mainly examples from literature. Frankly, I have trouble believing there's enough benefit from learning how to diagram one type of sentence this week, and something completely different the following, to make it worth while to do that portion of CW.

 

The sentence shuffles, OTOH, are repeated each week, so there is built in review if we learn new grammar specifically for them. In addition, they are part of the writing process itself rather than just grammar/diagramming practice. FTR, I know some who'd disagree with that and feel that diagramming the model sentences is important. But I don't. :)

 

Our grammar studies include Latin and a sentence diagramming workbook, A First Book of Sentence Diagramming, soon to start the second book. We're fairly laid back with it, just doing a few sentences a day. It's been a good fit for us. I wasn't secure enough to JUST do Latin (because sometimes, we fall off that wagon), but I felt (and still feel) that full grammar program on top of the Latin is just overkill.

 

HTH, and let me know if I need to clarify anything.

[Alana in Canada]

I make no claims to being an expert on the progym. However, my understanding is that the progymnasmata are the writing exercises only. Classical Composition does teach the progym without adding grammar, and I considered using it, but I really love CW so much that I'd rather just tweak it. I believe the authors added the grammar to make it a complete LA program rather than just a writing program.

 

 

Aaah, yes, I see. So, I suppose grammar isn't actually necessary in order to learn to write. But that can't be correct, either.

 

Once, a long time ago, I was investigating the different "models" of classical education which are out there. It seemed to me that the major difference between the two approaches exemplified by LCC and WTM is precisely this issue of grammar. I remember quite clearly being at a two day HS conference reading LCC the night before I had planned to purchase Rod and Staff English (which is essentially what I had come to the conference to do). I actually lost sleep over it, suspecting I was over complicating my life with it on the one hand and feeling utterly unable to let go of it on the other.

 

As for the rest of your remarks, I will have to read my Homer core further. Thanks again.

[Remudamom]

Um, yeah, but we got a cow! :) And I think that's been our big issue-- trying to mesh the homeschooling lifestyle with the farming lifestyle while still leaving me something that looks like a lifestyle. So to speak.

 

 

Farming is the perfect lifestyle for homeschooling. What's the cow's name??:lol:

[KathyJo]

It seemed to me that the major difference between the two approaches exemplified by LCC and WTM is precisely this issue of grammar.

 

I should have made my bias clear, but I've grown too accustomed to everyone with whom I associate online already knowing my bias. :) I am an LCC poster child, in philosophy if not always in perfect execution. Grammar is a difference that many people get hung up on, but it is not really the major difference between the two approaches. If I had to sum up the difference in one word, it would be "priorities." A day in the life might look much the same between three families who follow TWTM, LCC, and even CM, but each family will be working under a slightly different set of priorities, allowing the most important subjects to take center stage while the rest fade into the background a little.

 

So, yes, I believe grammar is important, and it's necessary for writing well. I just don't believe that it's necessary to incorporate it into the progymnasmata, and I don't believe that it's necessary to study it separately outside of Latin. And I found the idea of dropping R&S English VERY scary at first. :)

 

Farming is the perfect lifestyle for homeschooling. What's the cow's name??:lol:

 

Remudamom, her name is Heidi the Goofy. :) She's probably still technically a calf, and she's big, dumb, sweet, and playful. She's a Jersey.