Jane in NC Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 So I spent yesterday morning at a 4-H fundraiser and the evening at a neighborhood cocktail party. In both instances, I fell into discussions with people about what we perceived as the lack of ethics displayed by people in the investment world, mortgage banking, the food industry, you name it. Really--I am not trying to create a political thread, but from Madoff to peanuts, you all know what I am talking about. Anyway, what are some good secular sources on ethics? I am wondering if I can encourage some interesting discussions among the 4-Hers so perhaps a casebook approach might be the best. I am also wondering if business degree programs across the country should mandate an ethics course. My friend who went back to school for a master's degree in psychology had to take one. Perhaps this is common for professionals? I don't know but am wondering. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyinNNV Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 My dh had to take ethics classes in med school. I looked on Amazon and there are many ethics books that you could probably read and discuss as a class. If these are older students, I'd suggest assigning each student a week. That week the student would need to bring in a current event article that has ethical implications. They would need to make a copy of the article for everyone. Then you could have a discussion based on the article. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I haven't read it, but how about Aristotle's Ethics? I'm not sure if it applies to what we call ethics today, I've just seen the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) I am also wondering if business degree programs across the country should mandate an ethics course. My friend who went back to school for a master's degree in psychology had to take one. Perhaps this is common for professionals? I don't know but am wondering. Jane I had to take an ethics course for my undergrad business degree from Univ of MD. I have no idea how common an ethics requirement is, though. Edited February 23, 2009 by LizzyBee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira in MA Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I had to take an ethics course for my business degree from Univ of MD. I have no idea how common an ethics requirement is, though. Same here for my MBA back in the mid 80's. I believe it is pretty standard. ~Moira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 When I was in grad school (not med school myself...) my advisor had a joint appointment between anthropology and medicine and taught ethics. She routinely ended up coming back to Star Trek episodes for examples. :lol: It was actually a great course with excellent discussions, and I always thought we'd do an ethics course based on Star Trek when DS was older.... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Philosophy/EthicsMoralPhilosophy/?view=usa&ci=9780192892454 My undergrad major and to this day the one subject I never tire of. This ethics reader published by Oxford ,edited by Singer provides an excellent overview regarding the historical development and types of ethical systems. For the money and breadth of coverage it does not get better than this. I would suggest prereading the text and cribbing my own thoughts , reactions and understanding in a notebook to serve as a discussion guide. These courses are mandatory for attorneys and physicians but I feel come far too late in the vocational development to sculpt a point of view that is informed by reason rather than prejudices or emotive responses to inquiry. Unfortunately it seems that popular tastes of late have run toward the indulgent and entitled perspective. My alma mater now has 5 pages of the student handbook dedicated to defining cheating/plaigarism and the penalties for violation. It is very sad to see. However I think they have asked for it by abandoning the blue book exam method which clearly demonstrates ability and knowledge for multiple choice exams . For me this is a sign of the decline of civilization. That is not said in jest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Philosophy/EthicsMoralPhilosophy/?view=usa&ci=9780192892454 My undergrad major and to this day the one subject I never tire of. This ethics reader published by Oxford ,edited by Singer provides an excellent overview regarding the historical development and types of ethical systems. For the money and breadth of coverage it does not get better than this. I would suggest prereading the text and cribbing my own thoughts , reactions and understanding in a notebook to serve as a discussion guide. These courses are mandatory for attorneys and physicians but I feel come far too late in the vocational development to sculpt a point of view that is informed by reason rather than prejudices or emotive responses to inquiry. Unfortunately it seems that popular tastes of late have run toward the indulgent and entitled perspective. My alma mater now has 5 pages of the student handbook dedicated to defining cheating/plaigarism and the penalties for violation. It is very sad to see. However I think they have asked for it by abandoning the blue book exam method which clearly demonstrates ability and knowledge for multiple choice exams . For me this is a sign of the decline of civilization. That is not said in jest. Thanks for the book suggestion. It seems that a course in ethics is required in certain graduate/professional programs (not required for math when I was a grad student) and certainly introduced to many undergrads and high schoolers via honor codes. In my son's CC writing course, there was considerable time spent on defining plagiarism which is not surprising. He came home with a list of actions that are considered plagiaristic. One was writing a paper for one course and submitting it for another. My husband and I were a bit baffled by that. Suppose that I am particularly interested in Archimedes so I write an essay on him for my English class. Later, I take a Greek History class and develop this essay into a longer research paper. Am I plagiarizing myself? Responding to Elizabeth's comment on modern testing: Part of the attraction of the multiple choice essay is, of course, ease of grading. I wonder, also, if some instructors prefer them because they don't have whiney students following them down the hall fighting for partial credit points. As a mathematics instructor, I refuse to use multiple choice. Right answers do not ensure full credit, whereas proper work does. (Insert chorus of whiney students.) Perhaps I am wrong to say that our culture is lacking in ethics. Perhaps it is more accurate to say that I am not in agreement with the ethical systems exercised by certain corporations or industries. (This realization came to me as I was watching part of the new Masterpiece Oliver Twist online last night. The workhouse board sees themselves as ethical for giving orphans a roof and a daily bowl of gruel--and fails to see why any child would not be grateful.) Much to ponder here. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Riding Hood Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I would personally find any book edited by Peter Singer highly suspect in regard to ethics. He has an ethic, but not what the majority of humanity would consider acceptable. Not trying to be contentious, just a heads up for interested readers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyinNNV Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 In my son's CC writing course, there was considerable time spent on defining plagiarism which is not surprising. He came home with a list of actions that are considered plagiaristic. One was writing a paper for one course and submitting it for another. My husband and I were a bit baffled by that. Suppose that I am particularly interested in Archimedes so I write an essay on him for my English class. Later, I take a Greek History class and develop this essay into a longer research paper. Am I plagiarizing myself? Jane I think that is a really good question. Personally, I think it is fine to recycle the content of papers unless the instructor requests that you do not. However, according to most plagiarism books/websites I've read, it is considered plagiarism. So, I guess that if you got caught, even if the instructor was fine with it, you could get in trouble at the university level. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Well, I suppose that is what we've done GRIN. We constantly compare Star Trek TNG to our great books, and whenever we watch an episode, we all wind up thinking about the ethics involved. Even my engineering father commented (as he taped the episodes for us LOL) that STTNG "was an incredibly moral TV program". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Some attempt to teach ethics appears in engineering. In two schools at least, to my knowledge, it is or was left to the teacher of the required humanities class to deal with (not a bad place for it if you aren't going to devote a whole course to it), and then the prof's pointed out that one always had to think about the consequences of what one was inventing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet in Toronto Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I would personally find any book edited by Peter Singer highly suspect in regard to ethics. He has an ethic, but not what the majority of humanity would consider acceptable. Not trying to be contentious, just a heads up for interested readers. Yeah...i was kind of surprised to see an OUP book by him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I would personally find any book edited by Peter Singer highly suspect in regard to ethics. He has an ethic, but not what the majority of humanity would consider acceptable. Not trying to be contentious, just a heads up for interested readers.It is a reader and the book is a collection of ethics readings from various time periods in history. I urge you to read Singer even if only to know exactly why you vehemently disagree with him. That is the purpose of reading ethics. Some ethics courses are normative others simply seek to expose the student to various schools of thought and leave the discussion to the instructor at which time the instructor can absolutely pick the entire system , its presuppositions and conclusions to pieces. Again, that is the point of studying ethics . Normative or prescriptive ethics would be applied in the following manner. Studying the system of thought and then applying the principles to the ethical question and intending to convince or demonstrate to the student why the system is valid. I think homeschooling is perfect for both a normative and expository approach. BTW assuming that Singer would be a poor or inappropriate editor due to a disagreement with his philosophical analysis is a violation of the rules of informal logic.The one that comes to mind is Ad Hominem and or Poisoning the Well. For what it is worth, I happen to find many of Singer's conclusions in Practical Ethics unacceptable but for entirely different reasons than one might suppose. The link I posted has a table of contents for those who wish to see the authors covered in the book and they can judge for themselves accordingly. If you only wish your student to read and think about ethical positions you agree with then perhaps it would be best to only study normative ethics. To do so , in my opinion, makes the study of ethics mere indoctrination regardless of one's moral and ethical positions on any given subject. This is not practicing or the doing of philosophy in my estimation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 A. Ultimate Good Introduction 46. The Ceasing of Woe , The Buddha 47. The End for Human Nature , Aristotle 48. The Pursuit of Pleasure , Epicurus 49. A Stoic View of Life , Epictetus 50. The Sermon on the Mount , Jesus 51. The Saints of the Desert , W. B. H. Lecky 52. Story of a Good Brahmin , Voltaire 53. Push-Pin and Poetry , Jeremy Bentham 54. Higher and Lower Pleasures , John Stuart Mill 55. Good as the Satisfaction of Demands , William James 56. Desirable Consciousness , Henry Sidgwick 57. Beauty and Friendship , G. E. Moore 58. Truth and Ahimsa , M. K. Gandhi 59. The Right to Be Unhappy , Aldous Huxley 60. The Myth of Sisyphus , Albert Camus 61. The Experience Machine , Robert Nozick 62. The Basic Values , John Pinnis 63. What Makes Someone's Life Go Best? , Derek Parfit B. Deciding What Is Right Introduction I. Natural Law, Natural Rights |c. a. The Theory 64. Of the Natural Law , Aquinas 65. Our Rights in the State of Nature , John Locke 66. Declaration On Euthanasia , The Vatican 67. Absolute Human Rights , John Finnis 68. The Rationality of Side Constraints , Robert Nozick 69. Moral Aspects of Sterility Tests , Gerald Kelly b. Criticism 70. Provincial Letters , Pascal 71. Natural Rights , Jeremy Bentham 72. On Nature , John Stuart Mill This is a partial list of the philosophers covered in the text. Singer's writings are not included. He is certainly thinking outside of his "comfort zone," by including Jesus Christ and The Vatican in the chapter on Natural Rights.Again there is a difference between normative ethics and descriptive ethics. This book falls into the category of the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Riding Hood Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks for sharing the TOC. Perhaps my blind assumptions about Singer's selections were wrong, but there is no question that editors shape the material with which they work for better or worse, and that Singer has a definite "normative" agenda that I would be, at the very least, wary of prior to taking up a "descriptive" book with his name on it. I don't know about the logic of that; to me, it's only common sense. But beyond that, I'd rather not contribute to his support in any way whatsoever, and would endeavor to caution others who might not be aware of who he is and what he advocates. Is this ad hominem? You bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 My alma mater now has 5 pages of the student handbook dedicated to defining cheating/plaigarism and the penalties for violation. It is very sad to see. However I think they have asked for it by abandoning the blue book exam method which clearly demonstrates ability and knowledge for multiple choice exams . For me this is a sign of the decline of civilization. That is not said in jest. Thinking aloud here....(Here essay exams are normal in high school and multiple choice very uncommon; I approve and think that a person has to have a better understanding of the material and good communication skills to write a good essay.) Is it the kind of test or the expectations of success that encourage the cheating mentality? and the emphasis on alma mater, costs of education (how can you let your parents down if they've mortaged their house to pay for school?), overload (students are supposed to be great in all areas and so don't have as much time to invest), too many social and leisure commitments, and many other aspects of society that make cheating so common? besides personal morals? My oldest just graduated with a business degree and said they had ethics in one of the courses but not as a whole course.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thinking aloud here....(Here essay exams are normal in high school and multiple choice very uncommon; I approve and think that a person has to have a better understanding of the material and good communication skills to write a good essay.) Is it the kind of test or the expectations of success that encourage the cheating mentality? and the emphasis on alma mater, costs of education (how can you let your parents down if they've mortgaged their house to pay for school?), overload (students are supposed to be great in all areas and so don't have as much time to invest), too many social and leisure commitments, and many other aspects of society that make cheating so common? besides personal morals? My oldest just graduated with a business degree and said they had ethics in one of the courses but not as a whole course.... I really do not give students the benefit of the doubt maybe because I worked full time, carried 18-21 hours per semester and never earned less than an A. I really felt very fortunate because my parents made it clear that their wealth was theirs, not mine by virtue of being born to parents who were professionals and hence fully able to fund all college costs. They paid for all coursework, texts and related expense I paid for living expenses. If I did not meet expectations the funding was not available next term. I have tutored at both the undergrad and post grad level (law) and can say sadly I have never met a student who could not do the work if it was made a priority. Sad but true. They do not care. Cheating to achieve grades to please their parents? Nope. Not one I have met. Cheating because they did not do the reading or note taking that is mandatory to succeed? Yep all the time. I do not tutor freshman intro to ...students either. Perhaps that is why it is so disturbing to me. If you have made it to third year studies and sign up for a 300 or 400 level course I expect you can read and understand material commensurate with your standing. Those that do not have been given a "gentleman's C" and it was fine with them until they decided to apply to professional/grad school and now need some recommendations from profs due to their stellar performance of late. I would really enjoy tutoring students who want to understand the material and just need support , someone to flesh out ideas with them rather than read the material for them. Plagiarism is a whole other beast. From my limited experience most students truly misunderstand what it is much less how to avoid it. It seems akin to teaching discernment of quality information resources or defining porn...As one Supreme Court Justice famously said,"I cannot say what it is but I will know it when I see it." In my efforts to home educate dd I have found that it is far easier to show what is authentic research and thought of her own rather than to explain plagiarism in and of itself apart from the subject matter being researched. It would seem that my generation wrote research papers and the like without ever using a computer or the internet. I think this might be a factor. The swath of information that is out there is seemingly endless so a cut and paste mentality coupled with the pressure of expediency might produce people who cannot separate the wheat from the chaff. I do not know . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I really felt very fortunate because my parents made it clear that their wealth was theirs, not mine by virtue of being born to parents who were professionals and hence fully able to fund all college costs. They paid for all coursework, texts and related expense I paid for living expenses. If I did not meet expectations the funding was not available next term. It would seem that my generation wrote research papers and the like without ever using a computer or the internet. I think this might be a factor. The swath of information that is out there is seemingly endless so a cut and paste mentality coupled with the pressure of expediency might produce people who cannot separate the wheat from the chaff. Hi Elizabeth, Sorry I'm so slow about the dialogue - busy week(s)... I think I wrote too quickly, so the ideas weren't fleshed out. What you write above is exactly what I was alluding to. The big difference is that you had the morals to decide to work hard and the habits, brains, etc to enable you to succeed. If some students today were in the same situation, without the morals, etc..they might be tempted to cheat in order to get the grades their parents required for them to be able to stay in.... In NO way do I want to excuse the behaviour of students today...I'm only trying to find causes to find solutions....and thus dialoguing about them... I agree about the Internet problems - I think I'm of your generation or before... So why weren't your students doing their reading? or note taking? This thread came at just the right time because my husband is helping the Chinese develop a food safety university (remember melamine and other threats?). So I asked him if there would be a course on Ethics. This actually started an argument! He wants to hide it in professionalism or something - not wanting to offend them! I don't think he completely agrees but at least I got the idea in there....I told him that if it is set apart that it gives it greater weight...We'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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