Epic of Gilgamesh & Histories of Herodotus..opinions

[Michelle in AL]

I've started pre-reading these as we're scheduled to read these with my girls (gr7 & 9) next yr for Omnibus. I was a little shocked at the scene in Histories where the king hides his friend in his bedroom in order to peer at his beautiful wife, but thought OK, I can handle that. Then I began to read Gilgamesh for the first time tonight and the first tablet has a lot of s*x scenes with the harlot.

I don't think I'm a prude, but I may be.

Did any of you feel this was inappropriate for a 7th grader (which Veritas Press recommends this for)? I'm OK with a 9th grader, but 7th grade?

I haven't of course finished it, so maybe this has some educational value.

What do you think?

Thanks for any insight,

Michelle in AL

[cajun.classical]

I've started pre-reading these as we're scheduled to read these with my girls (gr7 & 9) next yr for Omnibus. I was a little shocked at the scene in Histories where the king hides his friend in his bedroom in order to peer at his beautiful wife, but thought OK, I can handle that. Then I began to read Gilgamesh for the first time tonight and the first tablet has a lot of s*x scenes with the harlot.

I don't think I'm a prude, but I may be.

Did any of you feel this was inappropriate for a 7th grader (which Veritas Press recommends this for)? I'm OK with a 9th grader, but 7th grade?

I haven't of course finished it, so maybe this has some educational value.

What do you think?

Thanks for any insight,

Michelle in AL

 

Which version of Gilgamesh are you reading? Some translations play up those elements more than others. The Penguin Classics version by N.K. Sandars is considered the most tame translation.

 

I pre-read Gilgamesh to prep for Omnibus as well. We'll be using it in 7th (a year and a half away). Obviously, parents must use their discretion, but when I was a high school literature teacher, I always took the position that we needed to be teaching our children *how* to think about these things. If we don't, someone else will. Certainly, I'm not suggesting gratuity or titillation, but we each have to decide where that line is. I thought that the Omnibus discussions were tasteful and age-appropriate, focusing mainly on the theme of friendship.

 

I just realized that you haven't finished it yet. Give it time. It's generally studied because it's another Flood story and provides an opportunity to contrast it with the Genesis account.

[Sandy in Indy]

Personally, I read the first 4 or 5 pages of Gilgamesh and decided that it was one that my high schooler could skip. (And I had what was supposed to be the "tame" version.) Perhaps I missed something...but I managed to get a Master's degree and have never read it myself so I figured his life could go along just fine without it.

[Anne in Hawaii]

Obviously, parents must use their discretion, but when I was a high school literature teacher, I always took the position that we needed to be teaching our children *how* to think about these things. If we don't, someone else will. Certainly, I'm not suggesting gratuity or titillation, but we each have to decide where that line is. I thought that the Omnibus discussions were tasteful and age-appropriate, focusing mainly on the theme of friendship.

 

That pretty much sums up my thoughts. We read both of those books last year (with my 7th grade dd and 9th grade ds). They led to some interesting conversations, that's for sure! :)

 

At Veritas teacher training, someone in one of the workshops said that if your child is not ready for certain subject matter by 7th grade, okay, but at some point she needs to be ready. And honestly, as you read Genesis and some other Old Testament books in Omnibus I, you'll come across some more pretty explicit material. But the beauty of homeschooling is that we parents get to make decisions about what is covered.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I read both Gilgamesh and The Histories, and yes, there is some shocking things in them. I have a few thoughts on these.

 

first, I agree with the one of the other replies, I prefer to teach my kids how to think through these things, and I prefer it in books then TV or other media.

 

second, as I told my dd, it seems shocking to us because we are not that stark in our writing. We use more imagery. Gilgamesh reads likes some of the early books of scripture. Very point blank. (as a note, translations have let us put a softer tone on some parts of scripture).

 

Also, by reading these things you can see what a society without the Gospel is like. This is the main thrust of Omnibus I.

 

We did skip The 12 Caesars, that book is where I drew the line. No one needs to read that.

 

Every family needs to decide where their "line" is. I will say that if you decide Gilgamesh is too much, you will not like most of Omnibus I.

 

I have liked Omnibus, but my first choice was Ambleside's House of Education. Have you seen that? Their books are choosen with a bit more sensitivity, IMHO. I let my dd choose between Omnibus and Ambleside, and she choose Omnibus. For the most part I have liked Omnibus, but I have not liked some the book selections and I think it goes to fast.

 

HTH

 

Kim

[Michelle in AL]

After my initial surprise, I did think of using it in a different context. This is how many societies were in Old Testament days and is why God became so angry and felt the need to seperate His people. If I preface the reading with this, maybe they will see it in a different light.

 

I was also planning on reading the first portions of each Omnibus session out loud. This seems a little awkward. I've really gotta get over my prudishness!

[Michelle in AL]

:eek:OK, now I have to read The 12 Caesars....aagh.

A new education for me.

Blessings, Michelle

[Moira in MA]

Some thoughts about your concerns:

 

My dd's, then in 7th & 9th grades, read and studied those texts without apparent harm.

 

I very much doubt that those sections you've mentioned will be the memorable ones for your dd's.

 

I feel it is important that our teens meet the Gilgamesh text before they reach college and have a comparative literature professor inform them that it is proof that the Bible is just another story.

 

If you have problems with this text, wait till you hit Suetonius :eek:

 

We have all learned a lot in the last year and a half with Omnibus I & II and are looking forward to Omnibus III next year.

 

HTH

[Lori D.]

It had no sex scenes, but it did have the bonus of a few Babylonian myths. We found it worthwhile, as the boys were able to do a nice, short compare/contrast paper on the Babylonian vs. Biblical versions of the flood. Brought out some good critical thinking -- *without* dipping into the (ahem!) sexuality.

 

However, I also think you can easily skip whatever classic works you want and your children will have an excellent education. No one can read it all! : ) BEST of luck in deciding what works for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[naturalmom]

and then told my son which pages to skip. He is really not interested in opening himself up to unwanted images or issues, so I know he won't read what is inappropriate. The other option is to do this book as a readaloud, and skip the section that is inappropriate. It was only a couple of pages that I made him skip. But I had to read the whole thing myself to find those pages.

 

I understand the argument that Veritas makes, and they say there's nothing more explicit than the Bible, but I think we still need to be careful of what we choose to explose our children, especially boys, to.