Nan in Mass Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Ok - my life consists mainly in picking up and dropping off people, taking them places and leaving them places and meeting them places, with things happening "on the way" and doing things "on the way". I am really struggling with how to express these ideas, especially "pick up", "drop off", and "way". Can you help me figure out how to plan and arrange logistics in French? Please? Until I get this figured out, I can't switch us to speaking French. I tried, but discovered that apart from school related things, for which I probably have to stick with English, almost everything I say to the children has to do with logistics. Thank you! -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'll pick you up -> je vais te chercher I'll drop you off -> je vais te déposer, je vais te mener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thank you! The te chercher rings a bell. I think I must have been using that before. The deposer I wouldn't have thought of. Dictators get deposed in English : ). How about "on the way" as in "We will pick up milk on the way?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 saying these phrases... I would say "en route". My son says "en chemin" and he has more local experience than I do...I don't know what they say in Canada... For the past 17 years I would say 'emmener' when I wanted to bring a child home or have him brought home but recently :eek: realized it is 'ramener'..like if you want someone to bring your child home...tu le ramenes? There have been some good conversational French books that have come out in the last 10 years which I've only recently discovered which could help you a lot. I don't have time to look now (remind me if I forget and you're interested) but books like "Conversations" I forget the publisher and books by CLE but I forget the names... Best, Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Thank you! I'm definately interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 We say, "I'll get the cake. Can you bring the icecream?" in English, but can you say, "Tu peux apporter la glace?" and have it mean the same thing as the formal English, "Would it be possible for you to bring the ice cream?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) but can you say, "Tu peux apporter la glace?" and have it mean the same thing as the formal English, "Would it be possible for you to bring the ice cream?"I'll take a stab at that one: I think you would say: "Pourriez-vous apporter la glace?" Hopefully, Cleo or someone more fluent can correct me if this is wrong.:) I'm interested in the answer. Edit: Sorry, I guess if you were using the familiar "tu", it would be "Pourrais-tu ..." Edited February 20, 2009 by amsunshine Correction on the familiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 the page of links with French mistakes on about.com? http://french.about.com/lr/french_mistakes/164084/5/ Pourriez is the more polite form of pouvoir. Whether it is inverted depends on the person you ask. Some books say that the inverted form is primarily used in writing. But I've had a native French speaker insist that I should say "puis-je" for "can I" and another insist that I should not. :confused: Maybe Cleo will tell us habits in Quebec... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Ah -- I am not sure whether the inverted form would be ok in spoken vs. written. I would be curious to hear responses about this. Also, I know I used "puis-je" a lot while I was in Paris (years ago), so if I was wrong, I must have sounded awfully dumb.:blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Pourriez is the more polite form of pouvoir. Whether it is inverted depends on the person you ask. Some books say that the inverted form is primarily used in writing. But I've had a native French speaker insist that I should say "puis-je" for "can I" and another insist that I should not. :confused: Maybe Cleo will tell us habits in Quebec... 'Pourriez' is not the polite form per se. It's the conditionnal present. In other words, the speaker isn't taking for granted that the other person can bring the ice cream. And that makes "Pourriez-vous apporter la glace?" quite polite and formal. But perfectly okay for oral expression. Just quite formal. You could use this to ask your boss's boss to bring ice cream to the company picnic. As for 'puis-je', it's also quite formal. It's perfectly good French, but may not be adequate in every setting. When you're not sure, always go for the more formal way. The worst that can happen is that people will laugh, but you will never offend. Oh, and "puis-je" is more "may I" than "Can I". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 'Pourriez' is not the polite form per se. It's the conditionnal present. In other words, the speaker isn't taking for granted that the other person can bring the ice cream. And that makes "Pourriez-vous apporter la glace?" quite polite and formal. But perfectly okay for oral expression. Just quite formal. You could use this to ask your boss's boss to bring ice cream to the company picnic. So, then I guess "Pourrais-tu apporter la glace" would be polite, but not too formal? As for 'puis-je', it's also quite formal. It's perfectly good French, but may not be adequate in every setting. When you're not sure, always go for the more formal way. The worst that can happen is that people will laugh, but you will never offend. Oh, and "puis-je" is more "may I" than "Can I". Oh, whew! At least I didn't sound like a complete idiot in France! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 So, then I guess "Pourrais-tu apporter la glace" would be polite, but not too formal? Ah the complexity of the French language. Yes, 'pourrais-tu apporter la glace?' is less formal, and polite. But the vous/tu obeys a different rule than the 'peux-tu/pourrais-tu' ... Basically, you use the conditional when you want to leave the door wide open for the other to refuse. 'pourrais-tu' means the speaker's not going to be offended at all if the answer is no. The speaker doesn't assume that you can bring the ice cream. 'Peux-tu' is more like a request. I'd expect a 'yes' unless there's a good reason. Now, pourrais-tu vs pourriez-vous (assuming we're always talking to a single person) will depend on the relationship with that person. And that rule varies from country to country! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 'Pourriez' is not the polite form per se. It's the conditionnal present. "puis-je" is more "may I" than "Can I". My understanding is that the conditional form is the more polite form and that you use it even when ask for something in the restaurant where they most likely have what is on the menu. eg Je voudrais, j'aimerais... Can't pouvoir be translated "can"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan in GE Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Oh, whew! At least I didn't sound like a complete idiot in France! The chapter on "Common Challenges for Adult Learners" (in the book Colleen recommended - Language Logic) talks about the importance of humour in learning a foreign language - how important it is to be able to laugh at yourself and laugh with others. If I was speaking to the friend who advised me to say "puis-je", she would have thought I was correct. And the other one would have thought it wasn't right, but it wasn't the end of the world. (So it also depends on the circles in which you are traveling. I've tried to understand differences in social standing of these young women). Think of your contacts who are learning English. When they make mistakes you probably just ignore them and try to understand what they are saying. There are certainly regional differences in the choice of vocabulary as well.... It is not that long ago that the French in France standardized their language more. A grocery store clerk in France told me how she grew up using "septante" for 70, but now everyone is supposed to use "soixante-dix". Here in Geneva they use "septante" and "nonante" but use "quatre-vignt" for 80. In the neighboring Swiss canton of Vaud they use "octante" for 80. Eight years ago my oldest son took the AP French test. The person who corrected his test wrote at the end "Tu parles francais bien!" She was clearly translating from English..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 Ah - So among family members, pourrais-tu is like our could you, and peux-tu is like our would you. I routinely say to my family, "Would you please..." when I am ordering them to do something and it isn't an emergency and I'm not being rude on purpose because I am angry. If I am not sure they can do it but I really want them to, I say, "Could you please..." If I am not sure they can do it and don't particularly care if they do it, I say, "Could you..." or "Would you be able to..." or "Perhaps you could..." If it is urgent, I would order using the imperative: "Bring the ice cream!" One of the things I hate most about speaking French is that I don't know how to be polite in French. In English, it is mostly a matter of being tentative - saying, "I think" or "Perhaps" or using the conditional, and one does it within the family and in formal situations, but I can't figure out how to manage this in French. I know a few formal phrases, but I don't know how to be polite and informal at the same time. So this is very helpful, Cleo, and if you felt inclined to elaborate some more, I would appreciate it. : ) -Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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