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How do you know when to really bump up the work?


Kfamily
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I can never seem to bump up the work level for dd5 enough? Does that make sense? It seems like I am always behind. As soon as I change or add something she needs more. How do you know when you should really change their work load. She is so young I don't want to put a lot of pencil work in front of her. Does anyone have any ideas that will give her some challenges without being too much for a kindergartener who is only writing at a first grade level (handwriting form wise- she spells fairly well and writes stories, letters and copies long selections on her own).

 

See, that's another example. I just added spelling this past week because she really didn't need phonics and I've noticed in the past couple of weeks her writing and spelling has really taken off. She spells words correctly that I never taught her.

 

Sorry this is a bit disorganized. I really could use some advice on how to appropriately serve her. I feel like I'm not meeting her needs and she is so sweet and deserving of my best.

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She is so young I don't want to put a lot of pencil work in front of her.

The question I would ask myself: is it the amount of work she does with a pencil or the amount of time she spends writing with the pencil that is the problem? If she works through the problems/activity quickly, I don't think it would be a problem. Perhaps you should do something that requires more thought and less writing, like logic puzzles or crosswords?

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I'm watching this one carefully for replies. I am in the same boat as you are with my ds7. I feel like I am so behind because every time I give him something new he get's it in a day and then is promptly bored of it. I swear that I too feel like I'm not meeting his needs and am not challenging him enough. Just this monday, he's feeling a bit off we are all getting over colds, we took our school work pretty slowly (I still felt pretty bad) and lo and behold he spent most of the day writing out a list of oxides with their molecules next to them. I'm running to try to catch up with him. I feel like I'm doing it all the time. Does it reach a point where they slow a bit? Let me catch my breathe?

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This is my answer to everything.... LOL

 

Work should be difficult enough to be engaging, but not so difficult that it's frustrating. If it's too easy she'll tune out, and if it's too hard she'll be overwhelmed.

 

The tricky part is when one assignment is too hard in one way and too easy in another.... That's when you have to start tweaking things. But what it sounds like you have is actually just too easy across the board. I wouldn't worry too much about her age, if she's happy doing the work. Some kids really like writing really young and some don't. I've got one of the "don'ts" (LOL) but his best friend when they were preschool age would write pages and pages on her own. Actually when I was little I loved writing... apparently it's not genetic... ;) But if your DD is happy writing I wouldn't worry that she's too young.

 

Unless you think it would completely shut her down, I think what I would try is really seriously jumping up the work to where you think she really can't do it. Be ready to back it off -- maybe even let her know that it's really hard stuff and you're not sure if she's ready -- but give it a try. She might surprise you!

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I'm not an expert, but this is what I have done with my kids. Try to keep the work short and challenging. If she is good at spelling, don't give her a workbook program with lots and lots of pages with words she already knows how to spell. If she really understands the math, skip ahead and don't make her do every problem on every page.

 

Honestly, at that age, I would spend lots of time letting her write stories if she wants to write. Read lots and lots of books out loud. Play games and explore her interests.

 

My kids have always hated anything to do with a pencil and have been behind their grade on handwriting, so my experiences have been a little different.

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I had tears in my eyes from relief at feeling understood.

 

I had a post on the K-8 General Board about how to step up in Language Arts and realized while typing a response that I'm always behind (because she is so young) as I keep taking baby steps meanwhile she is happily leaping along.:001_smile:

 

 

KAR1200, really stepping it up in a serious way was what I was trying to express in my first post so thank you for knowing that in my jumbled mess of words. Yes, I need to think outside the box and try not to feel so insecure about letting her go. I waited so long to stop phonics because I didn't want her to have gaps. I started spelling as a way to keep my eye on her phonics skills yet still changing our approach. I'm a little confused..can you tell?:lol:

 

She reads more than any of us in our family (although I think her older sister as of late has been trying to keep up). She has read Josephina's Short Story Collection, a Boxcar Children book, is half way through her second reading of Prince Caspian, has read the first chapter of Black Beauty, read The Ordinary Princess and many picture books in just one week. I feel guilty sometimes because I spend time with my older dd11 who needs this time and dd5 finishes handwriting, math and a couple of other things and still has so much free time while we are still working that she wanders off to read some more.

 

Thank you, Thank you!

 

I will be brave enough to change her work load...now to figure all of that out!

 

At this moment she started another book-A Cricket in Times Square....

Edited by Kfamily
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Try to keep the work short and challenging.

CM-style. Absolutely!

I've also had to bump my DS up quite rapidly from one level to another to keep it challenging. Don't worry about grade-level and recommended ages and all that stuff. Just do what fits her.

 

What about dictation?

 

I feel guilty sometimes because I spend time with my older dd11 who needs this time and dd5 finishes handwriting, math and a couple of other things and still has so much free time while we are still working that she wanders off to read some more.

That actually sounds like a good situation to me. She can go read while your older DD gets some more intensive one-on-one. Perfect symbiosis. If she's a bookworm like me, she's probably grateful to get back to her books. LOL!

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I faced the same thing with my dd when we started... whatever I thought would be challenging, she flew through...

It was my brother who said - don't slow her down - if she gets it, MOVE ON! (He was SOOOO bored in school.) So we kept moving on - and we still do. I don't make her complete whole math assignments most of the time still -I don't want her to do busy work, I just need her to learn the concepts. Once that's done, we move on to another challenge, and she is so much happier!

 

That being said, she is great at short term retention, but not long term. So even though she would be able to spit back 30 new spelling words the day after they are introduced, she doesn't remember them five days later. So we take our time on spelling words in order to reinforce. The concepts she gets; the rote memorization she feels is not worthy of continued brain space. :)

 

A wonderful librarian was my lifesaver - helped direct me to challenging literature without introducing inappropriate themes. Books written 1960s and earlier are my fav choices.

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Kfamily, have you seen the curriculum Five in a Row? It's literature based unit studies, and though they're meant to have the moms read the books to the kids, and then explore the lessons, the older units might work well for your daughter. (I ask because titles like The Boxcar Children and Cricket in Times Square are a couple of the older-grade units.) Anyway, things like that can be fun ways to explore lots of concepts.

 

My son is only about a year or so ahead in some subjects, so he's easy to adapt for ... I can't wait till he takes off on reading like your daughter. (She's got good taste! LOL. I love The Ordinary Princess.)

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She just "gets" math, learned to read on her own (by my reading to her), spells nearly every word correctly, loves to write poetry and stories, and just seems to know things no one has ever taught her.

 

I do not bump up in terms of amount of work so much as in the level of the work. We go wider, deeper, and faster. We do more reading on different topics...fiction (poetry,myths, classics) and nonfiction (science, history, biographies). We do more crafts and more creative activities.

 

I don't think she needs to be doing a lot of mindless work at 6yo (or 5yo in your case) but she needs her mind to be engaged more so that is what I provide. I follow her lead, allow her to pick what she is interested in learning, and have an idea in my mind of the curriculum in general so we don't miss anything. I keep everything within reach so she can pick what she wants to learn easily and explore on her own. I also provide her a lot of different subjects to explore like languages (working on Spanish and just starting Irish), music study, art, etc...

 

I try to keep everything fun and engaging so that learning is something she enjoys doing.

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I know a lot of people avoid it, but when we had it done at the end of 2nd grade it was already "too late"--she ceilinged out of one test, and out of many measures on the follow up. I knew she was gifted, but I had no idea she was THAT gifted (profoundly, as it turned out). Aha! that's why she was blowing through stuff. It really opened my eyes to what she was capable of. I had no idea! But then, I should have guessed when she just started reading one day. She finished all the Harry Potter by the end of first grade.

 

By 3rd grade dd's grade level in reading, etc. was untestable--12.9+ Only advice I can offer is you get used to it--plus, as they get older, laziness and other activities slow them down a little. Be prepared for stall-outs--after whizzing through math, dd stalled out in 7th grade doing algebra. Then she did it again in 8th. All of a sudden she took off again and has whizzed thru advanced algebra this year (9th). Also, they're not equally intelligent all the time--dd says her current favorite book is Herodotus, but she also likes cute kitty you tube videos, endlessly. Go figure.

 

I have tried to supply enough material and challenge so that it's not la-la-la all the time, but also not the screaming fits. We've tossed a lot of good ideas and curricula over the years--just a cost of "doing business" I guess. Be careful, though--you might still be doing this years from now! Dd absolutely refused to consider going to a high school.

 

A counselor for gifted kids said to me that I should seek situations where dd is "at the bottom of the class"--meaning keep moving her up until stuff is tough and she has to work to understand. She does have to work at music, so of course that is what she wants the most.

 

I don't see any alternative to giving a gifted kid (or any kid) as much as they can handle--the alternative is stupefaction. Finding what they can handle just takes experimenting, a willingness to problem solve, and to keep trying until something works. The real privilege to homeschooling.

Danielle

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I'm new here -- also with a five year old DD -- and started reading the boards in search of an answer to the same question. :) By way of background, I was labeled "highly gifted" as a child, and was given some degree of acceleration and enrichment, but it wasn't nearly enough. Since I was naturally compliant and followed all the rules, nobody noticed or cared that I wasn't being challenged. In hindsight, this led to some very bad habits of thinking and behavior, starting at an early age. Probably around kindergarten, actually... which might be why this is such a big concern for me now.

 

Here's something I tried recently, just as an experiment. DD has never had any kind of testing, but based on the descriptions in Deborah Ruf's "levels of giftedness," I'd peg her as somewhere between levels 3 and 5.

According to Ruf, level 5's are typically able to complete all elementary and middle-school coursework by around age 8 or 9. She also says that the difference between a 4 and a 5 is often a matter of inner motivation and environment, rather than just IQ.

 

Well, DD has always had tons of inner motivation. So I looked up our state standards online, and condensed them to follow this very accelerated schedule.

 

Age 3: Pre-K

Age 4: K & Gr. 1

Age 5: Gr. 2 & 3

Age 6: Gr. 4 & 5

etc.

 

Not that I really planned to go this fast in our homeschooling; it was just something I was doing out of curiosity (or so I kept telling myself). To be honest, it felt kind of naughty... like sneaking cigarettes behind the gym. LOL.

 

When I looked over the "level 5 standards" I'd created for DD's current age, I had a moment of panic. A long moment. "Okay, she can do this, no problem... but she doesn't know that! She hasn't even started that topic yet! It might be a little hard for her! What on earth made me even consider torturing my child this way?"

 

Then I realized, duh -- it's supposed to be a little hard. That's the point. :) Perhaps she can't do everything on the list at this age, and there would be nothing wrong with that. But what if she can do it... and would enjoy doing it... and I'm holding her back by my deep-seated, school-imposed prejudices and insecurities? How will we ever know, if I'm not open to the possibility? More to the point, if I don't give her the chance to test herself to the limits, how will she develop confidence in her ability to deal with real academic challenges?

 

Even if we never refer back to these standards, it was still worth the effort of compiling them. It really changed my way of thinking about education, grade levels, etc. I always knew they were arbitrary, but hadn't managed to internalize that knowledge until now. It's like we just took off the training wheels.

 

As the saying goes: "Too soon old, too late smart." ;)

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Eleanor, that's a fascinating post!

 

I gave myself a good panic attack a few weeks back by planning out my son's math progression through high school. We're only letting him work about a year ahead right now, but somehow in my planning I ended up skipping another year, and it worried me how quickly we'll run out of math work for him, IF he keeps at the pace he's going. I'm no dummy at math, but teaching higher level math is another thing altogether. Fortunately dh's giftedness lies in math, so he'll take over .... it just may be a few years sooner than we thought. LOL.

 

Anyway, you are so right that it doesn't hurt to TRY, as long as we can read the signs of stress before we burn 'em out, right?

 

Right now we're really just working slower, with more time to explore interests, and more time to just plain play. I do worry about stagnating ... it is so scary to try to balance.

 

I keep telling myself, I can't mess his education up any worse than the local PS, at least. :) Though they do have AP and things. But not much of a gifted program these days.

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Here's something I tried recently, just as an experiment. DD has never had any kind of testing, but based on the descriptions in Deborah Ruf's "levels of giftedness," I'd peg her as somewhere between levels 3 and 5.

According to Ruf, level 5's are typically able to complete all elementary and middle-school coursework by around age 8 or 9. She also says that the difference between a 4 and a 5 is often a matter of inner motivation and environment, rather than just IQ.

 

 

 

When I looked over the "level 5 standards" I'd created for DD's current age, I had a moment of panic. A long moment. "Okay, she can do this, no problem... but she doesn't know that! She hasn't even started that topic yet! It might be a little hard for her! What on earth made me even consider torturing my child this way?"

 

 

 

 

I just finished reading Losing our Minds. Wow. My son is probably between 3 and 4 because he doesn't quite have the motivation for 5 at this point. So, how did you come up with your standards? I have got to challenge this boy. He is chronologically a 1st grader working at a 4th grade level... and if I weren't so slow on the uptake here he would probably be about 5th grade level.

Marisa

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I just finished reading Losing our Minds. Wow. My son is probably between 3 and 4 because he doesn't quite have the motivation for 5 at this point. So, how did you come up with your standards? I have got to challenge this boy. He is chronologically a 1st grader working at a 4th grade level... and if I weren't so slow on the uptake here he would probably be about 5th grade level.

Marisa

 

I did a phone consult with Dr. Ruf last year after dd had an assessment done (somewhere else). She pegged dd at about a level 3 academically. She was breezing through 2nd grade math at the time though technically a K. Now as a 1st grader she is doing 4-5th grade level math bookwise (probably understanding at a 6th grade level with off topic things we have done). At the rate she is going she will be completed elementary and middle school maths by 8 or 9yo. I don't think that makes her a level 5. Dr. Ruf said during our conversation that any child with an IQ of 130-140 has the potential (though maybe not the means or motivation) to complete elementary education in 2 years while children with an IQ of 160+ have the potential to do it in 1 year.

 

Dr. Ruf's levels are meant to be a guideline for guessing where your child falls rather than an educational plan. More an if they are doing this then they may be this level rather than "I think they are this level so they should be doing this." There is a lot of overlap to the levels as well and the child's personality has a lot to do with who they are and what they achieve.

 

My dd is highly self motivated. She asks to do math, asks questions to further her understanding beyond what is on the page, and pushes herself (pulling me behind). I have another child who is not as self motivated but plods along doing lesson after lesson but is still about 3 years ahead in math. I let each child determine their rate of learning. I have to be true to who they are and allow them to learn in the way they learn best. If I were to push my less motivated child, he would hate learning and push back leaving our relationship at odds. If I were to slow down dd and say "oh Dr. Ruf says you are a level 3 so you can't do this so quickly," she would be miserable as well.

 

So, they best I can do is provide each of them the challenge they need to move from level to level and the opportunity to move on by not holding them back and making the information available and easily accessible.

 

I don't have a plan for where dd (or any of them) will be years from now. I couldn't even possibly guess. If anyone had told me she would be where she is now even early last year, I would not have believed it. We just take it a day at a time. I can easily teach through calculus and I know there are internet opportunities for college maths and community college courses available if and when we need them in whatever subject.

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DD the Elder is 7 now, but still does about half her work orally; at 5 it was almost all.

 

I try to meet her where she is in each subject. Sometimes this means moving rapidly through material, sometimes adding in lots of extras, sometimes spending less time on a subject to make more time for immediate interests (e.g. math is on a back burner in favour of languages and science). When possible, I keep the work challenging by choosing the most difficult problem sets available, for example using IP and CWP as the core books for Singapore Math. In addition, if she already knows the material, we do a quick review (for any new terminology, etc.) and skip the rest.

 

she spells fairly well and writes stories, letters and copies long selections on her own
This is wonderful.

 

See, that's another example. I just added spelling this past week because she really didn't need phonics and I've noticed in the past couple of weeks her writing and spelling has really taken off. She spells words correctly that I never taught her.
I'd take spelling off the board in this circumstance and wait until her rapid rate of improvement peters out. If she's spelling well, and getting better, why use a program now?
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Dr. Ruf's levels are meant to be a guideline for guessing where your child falls rather than an educational plan. More an if they are doing this then they may be this level rather than "I think they are this level so they should be doing this." There is a lot of overlap to the levels as well and the child's personality has a lot to do with who they are and what they achieve.
I don't think this can be overemphasized, and I have to admit to being very uncomfortable with the notion that one could or should turn a Level 3 or 4 kid into a Level 5 kid. This, aside from the fact that, while I am excited by the idea of discussing giftedness in terms other than measured IQ, her levels are based on a self-selected sample of her mostly upper-middle class clients.

 

The book that has helped me most in terms of talking with my children about work and effort and achievement is Mindset by Carol Dweck (and I just started reading her Self-Theories, a more academic work explaining her theories).

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Danielle,

 

Thanks for responding. I haven't had any testing done. I admit I still am not sure what to think of all this. I do wonder about giftedness but haven't really read enough about it. I don't even know where to start.

 

Eleanor, your post was very interesting!

I would like to learn more about this and all the books mentioned so far.

 

Nmoira,

 

You're right about the spelling. I have used two lessons with her over the past couple of weeks and I have already caught myself noting that I should have started her further ahead in the workbook. I started her about week 9 in a first grade book but it really is just busy work for her. All she had to do was see the words follow a similiar pattern and she could spell them all right away. I think I will focus on changing her level of books for reading (Mine are always behind her ability because of my fear of gaps) and taking copywork from these and having her do more oral narrations. She already narrates quite well.

It is so comforting to hear others suggest what I was too scared to do but wondered if I should-I really haven't put anything challenging in front of her yet except a good focus on handwriting skills, keeping her in Singapore 1 and her piano teacher has no trouble keeping her moving along. I need to let go of my fears and give her what she keeps asking for.

I am working on putting something together for language arts.

 

Thank you all!:grouphug:

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Just wanted to clarify that I never meant these standards to be the basis for a long-term plan. It was more of an attempt to come up with a reasonable ceiling for the next 6-12 months, so I could figure out how much work to have on hand for DD. Some parents can do this on the fly, but given that I also have two younger children and another on the way, I'd like to have a good supply of curriculum (and related books, videos, manipulatives, etc.) ready in advance. :)

 

As for the standards themselves, I just copied them from the state of California's web site, and reworked them to fit a hypothetical child who was progressing at about 140-150% of the usual rate. It turned out that the simplest way to do this was to assume that the child started K at age 4 and completed two grades per year. In essence, I just squished two years' worth of standards into one. Of course, this doesn't take into account individual differences, or the fine motor skills required for writing assignments, or the emotional maturity that's needed for certain topics in literature and history. But it's still been helpful... maybe not so much on a practical level, as for the assurance that I'm not out of my mind for stocking up on material that's far in advance of DD's current level, "in case we need it next year."

 

(As a side note, the CA standards look quite substantial in some respects, though of course it's an open question as to how many students in the real world actually learn and retain all these wonderful things. I don't think I want to know the answer to that one. But the mountain of forms, documents and other bureaucratic spoor on the Dept. of Ed.'s web site does offer some inkling of the source of our state's budget problems. :tongue_smilie: )

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I don't think this can be overemphasized, and I have to admit to being very uncomfortable with the notion that one could or should turn a Level 3 or 4 kid into a Level 5 kid.

 

You are definitely right. When I said my son was somewhere between 3 and 4, but not enough motivation for 5, I see more of the characteristics that Ruf describes in 4s in my son than 3s. However, he also has some of the 5s but not the motivation which she describes. I too don't think you can turn a level 3 kid into a level 4 kid. They are what they are. One is not better than the other, they just are. I am really struggling with wrapping my head around how to challenge my son enough. I had him write me a 1 page paper based on a prompt from a play we went to a few weeks ago. When I was discussing it with a friend with a gifted child, she was shocked that I would require 1 page of handwritting out of my son. Initially I wondered if maybe I had pushed too much but then I told her, he is capable of it, why not do it? It really wasn't a struggle once I gave him the guidelines as to what I expected and helped him to focus his thoughts. He was so proud of his accomplishment when he was done. I guess I am a bit overwhelmed with this child who I just can't seem to keep up with (and I was gifted as a child... but learned to underacheive due to the school setting I was in).

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Be careful about bumping up with fictoin reading unless you preread it all and are aware of her sensitivities. Many gifted kids have certain emotional sensitivities.

 

THere are longer text picture books that can take her a half hour to read. Fables and folklore from around the world are common ones. Some of the harder picture books like Patricia Polacco also are excellent and worth reading.

 

Read aloud's on higher level vocabulary books read by you. Or if you are too busy or voice gets hoarse, borrow audio books from library or do audible.com. Let her listen while she plays, drawing, painting, building with blocks, organizing her dollhouse or whatever.

 

Someone already said about Five in a Row. ENgaging her in the book and the art in the book not just flying through the text.

 

Perhaps some issue is with boring curriculum and workbooks? Avoid them!

 

Critical Conditioning by Kathryn Stout tells how to use any book and turn it into reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.

 

Also pick curriculums where they can move along at their level. Like SPelling Power for spelling. I am so happy we switched to that.

 

Do you have opportunities for outside classes? Experiential nature classes? Museum run classes? Stuff like that?

 

Yes to Charlotte Mason method.

 

And immerse her in art making, Artistic Pursuits curriculum is great. And 'process not product' arts and crafts. And maybe teach her to knit (five is not too young).

 

And for more reading have her reading nonfiction to herself. Some of the 1960s books on science and history that are more detailed and longer text are great. Check older libraries that have older books in circulaton. Such as the Robert McClung science books.

 

To find best books read "Honey for a Child's Heart", it is worth buying.

 

Hope something here helps.

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