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#1 beansprouts

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:13 PM

I need help fleshing out an idea. I was wondering if a trivum model could be applied to a Sunday School program. I was thinking of applying the WTM history approach to the Bible, and going through the entire text over a 3 or 4 year period. Each time we would teach at a developmentally appropriate level. For example 1st - 4th grade we would just teach the stories. From 5th to 8th grades we can start to read more analytically, picking apart the scripture and looking for connections, types, and parallels. The high school years we could spend on things like apologetics. Do you think this could work? Can you offer any books or curriculum ideas that will accomplish my goals at each level?

#2 dhudson

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:22 PM

You should take a look at the Discipleland Curriculum at http://www.discipleland.com.

#3 Hillary in KS

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:49 PM

Yes. Strider has done this. I did it in my class at our former church.

Strider needs to be the one to answer this, though. She's got amazing ideas! I'll PM you later with the notes that I have.:001_smile:

#4 beansprouts

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 04:18 PM

Yes. Strider has done this. I did it in my class at our former church.

Strider needs to be the one to answer this, though. She's got amazing ideas! I'll PM you later with the notes that I have.:001_smile:


Please! I am hoping to schedule a meeting with the new director this week, and I would like to bring specific ideas.

#5 NayfiesMama

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 04:26 PM

Incredible! This would be wonderful! I can see getting either a catechism that you agree on...or something like this...to do, as well. I actually can see memorizing the VP cards with all of the Bible Cards memorized, too. (Just the part that says... "Creation, Fall in the Garden...etc) Because, knowing the order of history...bible and other...is so important to seeing God's hand in things! Also, someone on here, there's a thread about the books of the Bible where you can kinda chant the main emphasis of the book....SO that when someone mentions Genesis, for example, you would remember something about "Creation" or Psalms..."Wisdom" etc.....

Carrie:-)

#6 OhElizabeth

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 04:59 PM

VP actually includes instructions in their bible materials for using it as a SS.

#7 mom2abcd

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 05:13 PM

Incredible! This would be wonderful! I can see getting either a catechism that you agree on...or something like this...to do, as well. I actually can see memorizing the VP cards with all of the Bible Cards memorized, too. (Just the part that says... "Creation, Fall in the Garden...etc) Because, knowing the order of history...bible and other...is so important to seeing God's hand in things! Also, someone on here, there's a thread about the books of the Bible where you can kinda chant the main emphasis of the book....SO that when someone mentions Genesis, for example, you would remember something about "Creation" or Psalms..."Wisdom" etc.....

Carrie:-)


Interesting! If you find that thread I'd love to see it. I know Walk Through the Bible has some great chant-type things that cover the history of the OT and NT, but they're not done by book.

#8 mamaof2andtwins

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 07:59 PM

I am hoping that we will set up something like this in our Sunday school program.

Right now our 7th/8th grade teacher does a 2 year New testament survery. She spends one year on the Gospels and then next year on Acts through Jude with just a touch on Revelation. My problem is we really need an Old Testament survey prior to 7th grade. I haven't worked out all the details. We are do to have a meeting with the teachers in a few weeks.

Jennie

#9 Alice

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 08:14 PM

We do this. A friend of mine who was the Christian Ed. director actually handed out an article talking about how the classical model can be applied to Sunday School. If I find it I'll send you the info.

We have small church so our classes are age 2-4, age 5-7, age 8-12 and teens. Everyone does a three year rotation. The first year is Old Testament, the second is New Testament and the third is Catechism. Each age is doing the same thing but a different level. So for catechism, I taught the 2-4 yr olds. We did the Children's Catechism through question 40 (taking the whole year). The 5-7 yr olds did the Children's Catechism, all 150 or so questions. The 8-12 yr olds did the Shorter Catechism and spent a lot more time discussing what it meant, rather than just memorizing it (we talked about meaning in the younger classes too but not in the same depth.) The teens had a class that was more on apologetics at that point and used some catechism questions to direct their study.

Hope that helps.

#10 Pine Ledge Academy

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:50 PM

have you seen http://www.childrend...ol_overview.php. also look under the preschool (ot/nt) and youth headings, and I believe there is more. It starts with OT, then NT, then gets deeper as the children get older. Our church has done this for maybe 5 years now, and we have really enjoyed it. It includes Bible memorization, tips for parents on a take home sheet, and we add catechism from the Westminster Shorter for the older kids and Prove It catechism for the younger ones. hth.

Edited by Pine Ledge Academy, 10 February 2009 - 10:53 PM.


#11 Harriet Vane

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 09:49 AM

Yes, you can definitely teach Bible study based on the classical model. I wrote a post about it to someone else a while ago--here it is copied and pasted:

For context--I teach inductive Bible method seminars and have written Bible studies for all ages. I find most pre-packaged curriculums a sad disappointment.

There are three steps to good inductive study:

1--Observation (basic facts and reading comprehension)

2--Interpretation--What does this mean? And even more importantly, what did it mean to the audience to whom it was originally written?

3--Application--How do I respond? Can be action, prayer, worship, journaling, etc. Be careful in this stage to avoid studying the Bible only to find a prescription for behavior.

Okay, so understanding that, what are your goals at each stage?

In the grammar stage, I focus heavily on observation. Then I as the teacher guide the process of interpretation and application. We typically go over observations together, and then I might ask, "What did we learn in this Bible story?" or "What did we learn about God in this part of the Bible?" That's the interpretation, and then we talk about our response.

Also in the grammar stage, they are relying on study aids to determine their observations. In other words, the child is either answering homework questions or responding to my (the teacher's) questions. In the younger years, we do this together. In 3rd-4th grade the child does homework, which I then discuss with him/her.

In the logic stage, they should learn to generate observations without study aids, and they should master the three steps of inductive study. Study aids (like study guides) are not a bad thing, but the student should progressively work more and more with Bible text exclusively. Or another idea is working with Bible text alone, first, and then bringing in study material after independent study. An example of this might be to require the child to write one fact per verse, answer the question, "What is the main lesson?" in ONE SHORT sentence, and determine a response. Then the child can read a study guide or interact with a teacher and compare his/her own conclusions with that of the teacher or study aids'.

A warning for this is to always compare what a teacher or study aid says to what the Bible says. It is all too easy to assume that the "expert" (teacher or study aid) is right.

In the rhetoric stage, the student should be able to generate notes on all three stages of inductive Bible study, and use their notes to write their own Bible studies and/or commentary style reports. Also in the rhetoric stage a student should be able to appropriately use biblical reference materials (concordance, Bible dictionary, etc.).

#12 Harriet Vane

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:08 AM

My previous post gave the underpinning for my specific recommendations for a church setting.

First, specifically train all the teachers to encourage the children to work directly from real Bible text as often as possible. While I think it's fine to use a good Bible storybook for really little ones, I advocate using the real Bible for school-aged children. Teachers can use a simple text like the NLT (not to be confused with the Living Bible--the NLT is a valid translation, while its predecessor, The Living Bible, is a paraphrase). For young kids, the teacher should read the Bible text as dramatically and realistically as possible, and then re-read parts later while questioning the kids about the details of the text. (BTW, re-reading a lot also works well for adults with literacy issues.) I also advise putting the memory verse or key verse on the whiteboard or giving each student a copy to look at, and doing a simple inductive study from just that verse so that the kids have a clear, specific understanding for the verse's meaning.

Older kids can do a Bible study just like adults do. They are ready for this when they are reading fluently and can scan text comfortably to find the details (around 3rd grade). For younger kids, the teacher can help the process by saying, "Look at verse #, what did Jesus say about XYZ?" Older kids may not need to have the verse references fed to them like that, though.

When I directed Sunday School (I did this for many years, at two different churches), the church leadership had a real need for me to stick to a "normal" curriculum. I have found that Piper's Children Desiring God is one of the best. I require all teachers to undergo training in both inductive method, and also I coach them through using inductive method with the SS curriculum.

For any given lesson, a good teacher will study the passage ahead of time, writing questions based on their factual observations of the passage. That teacher can then use their questions to beef up what the curriculum has to offer (I find that most curriculum does not offer nearly enough observational study of the Bible passage). The teacher also ruthlessly omits any part of the curriculum that will distract from the Bible study, or that does not reflect the lesson of that passage accurately. So, in an hour long class, a teacher might spend 10-20 minutes welcoming and praying together (the older the kids, the longer the prayer time--I have found that kids handle a long, guided prayer time just fine). Then the teacher will spend a minimum of 30 minutes on the Bible study. This time is composed of (1) reading the text, possibly acting out the text or cartooning it to get the kids to notice details (2) Answering observation questions, usually a minimum of 1-3 per verse. These are simple, factual questions and do go quickly--don't be afraid of having too many! (3) Directing the kids to say (or write) one sentence summarizing the main point, and chatting about this, getting them to defend their thoughts using verses/words from the text. The last ten minutes of a class can be given to application discussion or activities or even more prayer.

That is the basis from which all ages work.

#13 Harriet Vane

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:21 AM

In the middle years, students need to learn not to be as teacher-dependent. This is the perfect time to teach them HOW to study the Bible for themselves. This is especially effective for kids who have grown up in church and feel like they know everything about the Bible and have heard all the stories a million times--focusing more on method, and less on memorizing details, is very, very effective at this age.

I have not found a lot of churches willing to not use a curriculum at this stage. If a curriculum has to be used at all times, then these years are a good time to try having the kids answer the Bible study questions silently, independently, in a journal. After quiet study time, come back together as a group to discuss the passage.

If I did not have to use a curriculum, though, I would go ahead and get the kids working right with the text itself. Hand out photocopies of the passage that they can write on. The teacher can lead the class to just shout out observations, which the teacher then writes on the whiteboard. Another option is to have the kids mark their observations on paper, silently, and then share them with the group afterward. A good teacher, trained in inductive method, will coach the kids along, keeping them to factual observations at this stage, rather than opinion. Another option is teaching the kids manuscript study similar to what Precepts teaches (marking different elements in the text with colored pencils).

Once the kids are good at pulling facts out of the passage independently and defining the main lesson of the passage, they can also be taught how to write Bible study questions, cross-reference topically (only AFTER good inductive study of the original passage). Teach them how to evaluate Bible studies for content, how to use a concordance or a Bible dictionary, do root word study, draw maps based off details of the text, write commentary, etc. I have done all these things with junior high aged kids, and they love it. They love the new challenge, and they love feeling grown-up. They have outgrown being told stories or questioned on stories, and they respond well to digging in for themselves. The group of girls I am presently working with have thrived with this approach. My dh has implemented some of these ideas with his junior high SS class, with great results. One former student even thanked my dh, not too long ago, specifically for the inductive skills unit he did with her class for a semester.

#14 Harriet Vane

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:36 AM

I'm going to have to summarize this a little quicker, as my kids are tired of hearing me type. :D

Many of the ideas I gave for junior high work well in a church setting for high schoolers also. No matter what the age, I strongly advocate that people of any age or skill level can and should be taught inductive method. If your high schoolers do not have this skill, they need to be taught.

Having said that, there are two goals I think older teens can accomplish. One is that they need to study real Bible text, and they need to go beyond the "usual" stories and issues. A four-year rotation that cover the major areas of Bible chronologically, inductively is excellent.

The second goal, though, is to speak and write about the great lessons of the Bible AND how those lessons compare to things outside the Bible. Kids at this age should first dig into their OWN faith. They can read Christian authors and compare their opinions to the Bible. They should study the doctrine of their denomination, again carefully comparing to the Bible. They can experiment with and discover spiritual disciplines. Then, they can compare the Bible to things outside of their faith. They can look at various major world religions in depth, carefully comparing what they learn to what the Bible teaches. This does NOT mean proof-texting and pulling out a verse here and a verse there. It means learning to appropriately apply the Bible to opinions and situations outside of the Bible.

One final thought is not to restrict kids this age to study alone, especially if they have grown up in church. Provide opportunities for them to see and experience the real, horrifying problems of our sinful world. Give them the opportunity for meaningful service. There is nothing more effective at breaking us out of our comfortable bubble of security as genuine work among those less fortunate.

#15 beansprouts

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:37 AM

Strider, I would rep you if I could. Thank you :001_smile:

#16 Harriet Vane

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:47 AM

Here are some great books for some in-depth how-to for Bible study:

This first book is definitely my favorite.
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

Here's another good one:
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

Here is another one that is more scholarly but still user-friendly. I'd start with the book by Sterrett (above) but if you want to go deeper this is a good resource:
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

And finally, I just picked up a book this summer that thoroughly breaks down the different literature genres in the Bible:
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

I have one more recommendation. It's a children's ministry book, but I find the principles this book teaches are wonderful for anyone who wishes to teach the Bible. I highly recommend it:
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

If I had to pick, I would read the Sterrett book and the Dunlop book first. They are all great resources though.

#17 mom2abcd

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:49 AM

Here are some great books for some in-depth how-to for Bible study:

This first book is definitely my favorite.
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

.


strider, could you please list the titles and authors? The links are coming up with errors.

TIA

#18 Colleen in NS

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:51 AM

I need help fleshing out an idea. I was wondering if a trivum model could be applied to a Sunday School program. I was thinking of applying the WTM history approach to the Bible, and going through the entire text over a 3 or 4 year period. Each time we would teach at a developmentally appropriate level. For example 1st - 4th grade we would just teach the stories. From 5th to 8th grades we can start to read more analytically, picking apart the scripture and looking for connections, types, and parallels. The high school years we could spend on things like apologetics. Do you think this could work? Can you offer any books or curriculum ideas that will accomplish my goals at each level?


Ever since I got a couple of years into using WTM for homeschooling, I've thought this would be a fabulous idea. I love Strider's ideas for doing this.

Good luck and let us know how it's going!

#19 Colleen in NS

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 12:50 PM

strider, could you please list the titles and authors? The links are coming up with errors.

TIA


bump. I want to look at one of these books, too.

#20 Harriet Vane

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 03:06 PM

Here are some great books for some in-depth how-to for Bible study:

This first book is definitely my favorite.
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

Here's another good one:
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

Here is another one that is more scholarly but still user-friendly. I'd start with the book by Sterrett (above) but if you want to go deeper this is a good resource:
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

And finally, I just picked up a book this summer that thoroughly breaks down the different literature genres in the Bible:
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

I have one more recommendation. It's a children's ministry book, but I find the principles this book teaches are wonderful for anyone who wishes to teach the Bible. I highly recommend it:
http://www.christian....WW&view=covers

If I had to pick, I would read the Sterrett book and the Dunlop book first. They are all great resources though.


Oy vey. Sorry about the faulty links. Here are the titles:

How to Understand Your Bible, by T. Norton Sterrett

How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth, by Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart

Transforming Bible Study, by Bob Grahmann

Knowing Scripture, by R. C, Sproul

Follow Me As I Follow Christ, by Cheryl Dunlop

My favorites are the ones by Dunlop and by Sterrett.

#21 mom2abcd

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 12:03 AM

Oy vey. Sorry about the faulty links. Here are the titles:

[.


Thanks!


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