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A new cc option, you won't believe this, or maybe you will.


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So the counselor at the cc is meeting w/ds and I going over our options. She says, among other options, that I can "graduate" ds. He's 14, in 9th grade! I can sign a paper saying he's graduated and he can begin taking cc classes. He could go full or part time, get financial aid that he wouldn't have to pay back, and if he place into remedial classes he could take pre-algbra or algebra to then be served where he is now (see my other post for the math issue that started all this).

 

As a homeschooled high schooler he has to place into at least college math and reading/writing. He got all but the math. This way, she explains, he could take the classes at exactly the level he needs, begin getting college credit early, and get financial aid. Ds is practically out of his chair with excitement. I am calmly asking how could this be, skipping high school? What are the possible advantages/disadvantages?

 

She says is could be a disadvantage having a 16 year old student with an associates deciding which university he will move to. Yeah!

 

We were told if interested (ds was totally interested!!!) to go to the welcome center to find out what constitutes graduating from a homeschool high school.

 

The young lady at the desk said her mom simply wrote a letter stating she was finished with high school and she began full time at 15.

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The only disadvantage that I can think of is that he won't be able to get scholarships if he is already graduated. If you don't think that is a possibility then I guess that doesn't matter. I was homeschooled and my sister and I took college classes as dual enrollment. We did really well in our classes.

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Well, to me it just seems dishonest. Having someone's permission doesn't make it any less so in my opinion. A child that hasn't finished a high school course of study (or greater) should not have his mother signing that he has graduated. JMO...

 

Otherwise, I don't necessarily see an issue with it. It depends on the kid. My ds won't be ready for college at 14 but my daughter was more than ready well before that.

 

Oh, well, I do have one more opinion about it. I'm glad that isn't even an option here. The ability to benefit stuff doesn't start until you're 18. If you go to college before that, it's because you're on a college level. To me, that makes perfect sense. There is already federally and locally funded schooling for 14-18yr olds. Taxpayers shouldn't be paying a college to do the job that a high school is already established to do.

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Wow! I've never heard of that. Do you have any universities near you, in case your son gets his associate's degree early but you don't want your son leaving home early? Do you think your son could handle college level classes this early? That is very cool!

 

I don't have an age limit, so I've thought about this a bit for my youngest and decided that I wanted to wait until later to have him enroll. If he starts CC instead of doing high school at home with me, he would be going to school, and although CC is a better version of school than our public high school, it still is school. and some things, like great books, we can do more comfortably and more flexibly at home. Also, my 14yo is probably headed for engineering. His college classes are going to be tons of hard work. We're in no hurry and I'd like him to have time to play with engineering for awhile longer before he has to do the hard stuff. He can mess about with electonic kits and his robotix legos and qbasic. He wants to play with his friends all the time and that would have to lessen. He'd probably have to stop doing competative gymnastic, since he's not brilliant enough to do both. He wouldn't have the time to develop some other hobbies and interests and figure out how to contribute to the world (something he is uninterested in at the moment but I'm going to insist on for high school). If he's working hard at CC classes, he won't have time for these things. Lots of students are ready, probably, but I don't think mine is. He's the last of my batch, and I have time to work with him. I made the same decision about his older brother. The older one started taking a few easy classes when he was in 11th grade, and now is taking a few harder ones. So, I'm telling you this not to try to dissuade you from choosing CC for your son, but so that you have some idea why other people might choose not to do it, and so you will be able to say to yourself, "Yes, but that doesn't apply to my son." Homeschooling is still working well for my youngest, but if at some point it doesn't work as well, then CC is what we'll do. We have had a very positive experience working with ours. And we know people who did this instead of at least half of high school and graduated with an associate's degree and a high school diploma at the same time. Have fun thinking about all the exciting possibilities!

-Nan

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We have a similar option here in CA... you can take a test which is the equivalent of a high school diploma (CHSPE, not GED). In fact I've heard of people who have their kids take the test so they can take more than 2 cc classes per semester, but keep them enrolled in their homeschool high school, then they graduate from high school at their normal age, apply to colleges as freshmen, then transfer in the units afterwards. Apparently college admissions office don't care if you do this.

 

The main reason I haven't done it is that for dual enrollment, cc classes are free. Since my boys aren't yet interested in taking more than 2 (which is the max for dual enrollment) I figure we'll keep getting them for free until they're interested.

 

Another possible disadvantage could be moving away to college at age 16.... but if, when the time comes, he's not ready, just have him stay home for college.

 

Sounds like your child is really interested. I say go for it! If my boys wanted to do this I'd let them in a heartbeat... but they're pretty happy being carefree teenagers.

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I will read the replies, but just in case it doesn't "read" through my message, this is a shock and not something I want to do for my ds. I posted it because I just couldn't believe it's an option in our state. I guess if you quit school in the 9th grade and need to go to school somewhere, you could go to cc. Seems like this is a glorified way of doing the same thing.????

 

I almost wish we hadn't even gone now. I think it would be dishonest saying we are finished. We are far from finished! We've just begun and although we've hit a snag with math and needing a tutor, it's not something that can't be overcome.

 

What have I started? Thanks for reading this far.

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child that hasn't finished a high school course of study (or greater) should not have his mother signing that he has graduated..

 

The high school requirements are up to the diploma-granting institution (mom) and the requirements can change at the school's (mom's) whim. So maybe her (or my) requirements last month were

4 years of maths

4 years of Latin

4 years of Science

4 years of History,

but today we changed all that to . . .. .

whatever he has done to date. And so *poof* you are graduated.

Yes, diploma requirements can be and are that arbitrary.

 

There is already federally and locally funded schooling for 14-18yr olds. Taxpayers shouldn't be paying a college to do the job that a high school is already established to do.

 

The high school isn't getting any of that high school tax money for that student so I don't see the duplicate payment. It's just going somewhere else.

In fact I see a savings. Four years of high school plus 2 years of CC, versus, 2 years of CC only. Saves the taxpayers four years of high school money. ka-ching

 

Sounds great to me. :)

 

And if you don't want him on campus with the Olders, he can probably take his Math, History, Spanish, English, etc., online or distance-ed, and just show up for Tutor Lab for Math.

 

I thought in some if not most states this is very common, for homeschoolers to do CC in 10th/11th, or 11th/12th, and transfer to University as a Junior (at 17 or 18 years of age). For most the end goal is the bachelor degree, and it's just a linear progression from age 5 to the end. High school coursework is/was never a goal.

 

If he's not up to college academic level and pace in History, English, Science, etc., he can take the lower level courses (closer to high school caliber) until he is and just take his best 60 units with him when he transfers.

 

Or he can do Just Math at the cc, and still do your own studies at home for English, History, Science, Spanish, etc.

They wouldn't go on any transcript but they wouldn't need to either.

And then he can just take Math at the CC and have access to the free tutors.

Most courses before Pre-Calc at the CC's tend to have student-pace courses so a slow math pace even at CC will probably not be an issue.

 

Did he register already? :lol:

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I think it would be dishonest saying we are finished. We are far from finished.

 

Perhaps he has "finished" with his Diploma requirements, which you set to be whatever he's done to date..... but you are going to have him do academics at home beyond his diploma requirements for another couple, three, four years, while he attends college, his only courses being his math progression, until you are done with his academics-beyond-diploma.

 

Diploma requirements can be arbitrary, easy, rigorous, anything, whatever the school sets. In many states, we homeschoolers are our own "school" and so we can make them basic or rigorous or somewhere in between, and they can change from year to year.

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Diploma requirements can be arbitrary, easy, rigorous, anything, whatever the school sets.

 

I understand that...and even agree with it to an extent. I mean, I don't want anyone coming in and telling ME what my kids must do to graduate from MY homeschool.

 

However, there is a certain level of work assumed of a person who has graduated high school, a very minimum people assume that a student has mastered, but even more that it is assumed a student has been exposed to. A TYPICAL 9th grader has not had that experience. But it's a pretty common assumption (job application, college applications, discussion within a congregation, etc). *I* just could not and would not sign something that gave ANYONE the idea that my 9th grader had the experience and mastery the average person in this country would consider a minimum high school education.

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I haven't read all the responses but I need to leave in a minute, so I'll just jot down what came to my mind. Finnishing typical high school courses at home is cheaper then taking them in college plus the mid to upper courses at college for whatever degree he will be going for! If you start in college with Algebra you might still need to take up to or thru Calc.... it's not just 4 years of math, it's 4 yrs of specific math courses which typically start around Algebra II or Calc... and I gather the same goes for other courses like science or English.

 

gotta run

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... *I* just could not and would not sign something that gave ANYONE the idea that my 9th grader had the experience and mastery the average person in this country would consider a minimum high school education.

I understand why you would not want to do this. But I believe a "minimum high school education" is entirely meaningless in this country. How else can we call each of the following a high school education?

 

Student A: 29 high school courses.

4 years in honors English (culminating in an AP class)

5 years of math if you count the Algebra 1 taken in 8th grade (culminating in AP Calculus)

4 years of foreign language

4 years of science including lab bio, lab chem, and physics.

4 years of history (including an AP course or 2)

Plus 8 credits of PE, fine arts electives, etc.

 

Now compare that to what a typical PS in my state requires.

Student B: 21 high school courses.

3 years of English which can be very remedial

3 years of "social studies" which can be very remedial

2 years of science - no lab required

2 years of math which can be pre-algebra and algebra 1!

1 year of a fine art OR foreign language.

Plus 10 credits of PE and other electives.

 

I suspect that the type of person who would graduate under the "student B" conditions has fewer skills and less knowledge than the typical WTM-homeschooled high school freshman. So I don't have a moral problem with a homeschooler deciding that her student has graduated at age 14, especially since the student has already passed some of the proficiency tests which the college requires. By definition, it means the student is at college-level work.

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That would work for me. In fact, that's more or less what we did.

 

I see no purpose in a child staying in "high school" for 4 years if he can be graduated and go on to college.

 

In California, c.c. transfer students are *guaranteed* to be admitted into the state college and university systems. Most private colleges will accept the credits completed at the c.c., as well. At the point of transfer, no one cares about what the applicant did for "high school."

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It could be good or bad, depending on your ds.

 

My dh did something like this at age 14. Unfortunately, he made some friends that encouraged him to skip classes (which he often did), plus he didn't really know how to study at the college level, and thus failed to live up to his potential. Due to a mid-CC move to another CC with totally different requirements and a series of inept guidance counselors, he didn't complete his AA until he was 18 anyway. He's now 31 and almost done with a BA. (This includes several years of no school, working, joining the military, and taking a class or two at a time to complete his degree, while moving every few years.)

 

Dh really wishes that his parents had pulled him out at the first sign of trouble, rather than letting him continue on such poor terms. He has a lower-than-competitive GPA, which has eliminated certain career paths he may otherwise have pursued.

 

That's not the only experience out there, though. I went to college full-time for a semester when I was 16 and loved it. I got really good grades and felt like I was finally able to study what I loved rather than fulfilling meaningless requirements. :001_smile: I didn't continue, though, due to some health/emotional issues, and the fact that I was also still doing some part-time high school work at the same time, and I didn't have the option to drop that.

 

It sounds like a great opportunity, and you know how motivated/capable your ds is. Is there a way he could maybe take one or two classes at the cc before "graduating" just to make sure that this is a path he/you want to take?

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It really is ok. We did this with my ds.

 

He took one cc class when he was 15yo, and wanted to sign up for two the next semester. His cc counselor talked to both him and dh about us 'graduating' him so he could take cc full-time and get financial aid.

 

He got good financial aid the first semester and then received a full-ride academic scholarship from his good grades for the rest of his cc (three semesters). So, no matter what we thought of as 'high school' or 'college', he was more than ready for the classes which meant he was finished with high school.

 

He graduated with his AA degree at 17yo, turned 18yo in the fall, and when he went to 4 year college his credits transferred and he entered at junior status. It worked for him.

 

Also, as a young man he was bored, bored, bored with the idea of high school at home. Knowing that the cc classes we really worth something and taking him somewhere in his life made all the difference in changing his 'do I have to do school' attitude to excelling academically.

 

IMO, if your ds is excited about doing it, that is more than half the battle. Why hold him back? Isn't this the reason we homeschool, so that dc can go at their own pace?

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We have a similar option here in CA... you can take a test which is the equivalent of a high school diploma (CHSPE, not GED). In fact I've heard of people who have their kids take the test so they can take more than 2 cc classes per semester, but keep them enrolled in their homeschool high school, then they graduate from high school at their normal age, apply to colleges as freshmen, then transfer in the units afterwards. Apparently college admissions office don't care if you do this.

We graduated two dc in California :-)

 

If a student *transfers* from a community college to a 4yr college, no one cares about his high school transcript. My older dd graduated from c.c. (she also completed cosmetology school through the c.c.), and transferred to San Jose State, where she started as a junior. She has never had a high school transcript. She made sure that all the classes she took at the c.c. were transferrable.

 

C.c. can make their own rules about admissions. Where my dds went to c.c., they didn't have to take the CHSPE but they could still take as many units as they wanted to.

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But I believe a "minimum high school education" is entirely meaningless in this country.

 

Yes, so do I. We have a lot of family in different schools and even the same course titles vary so much it could shock some folks.

;)

 

I see no purpose in a child staying in "high school" for 4 years if he can be graduated and go on to college.

 

This is the more common opinion that I tend to hear. Again, the end goal bein the bachelor and the high school just a requirement of some sort

 

the student has already passed some of the proficiency tests which the college requires. By definition, it means the student is at college-level work.

Yes, and

Even where he hasn't, the college is the appropriate venue to remediate.

 

But I believe a "minimum high school education" is entirely meaningless in this country.

 

I guess for me this is it. High school education is so arbitrary, it is meaningless. :)

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I haven't read all the responses yet, but. . .

 

Isn't this "essentially" dual credit? I mean, they are saying you could graduate your child and all that jazz, but, truly, wouldn't it be doing the exact same thing as those who take the duel credit route -- only not necessarily with all the paperwork on your end?

 

I know at our local colleges dual credit is offered, and I think it can start around age 14 (but generally people wait till about 16). So, I could enroll my kiddoe in an English semester and it would count as a full college credit, and a full year of high school credit. At 18, the kid can have an AA (if starting at 16). Once your kid has an AA at a local CC (or 30 hours), if they transfer to a local university they don't need a high school transcript.

 

So, other than wording, what's the difference?

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Originally Posted by OC Mom View Post

But I believe a "minimum high school education" is entirely meaningless in this country.

I guess for me this is it. High school education is so arbitrary, it is meaningless.

 

 

I guess I just disagree. I totally agree that what counts as a diploma differs greatly, but there is SOME standard and very few would guess that it would mean less than 8 credits worth of work including not finishing enough math to pass the placement test. And though many high school students also end up taking remedial classes, that is usually brought up as a shortcoming of public education.

 

I do completely agree that many kids don't need four years of high school...possibly any of it. I'm actually for sending kids to college when they are ready regardless of age.

 

Y'all probably think I'm just weird...which is fine....I just could not "graduate" a student until he's done (whether at school, home or college, I don't care) what in general would be considered a minimum high school education.

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Y'all probably think I'm just weird...which is fine....I just could not "graduate" a student until he's done (whether at school, home or college, I don't care) what in general would be considered a minimum high school education.

 

But....what exactly are you looking at when you say "would be considered a minimum high school education"? The actual course content? What age the dc is? The time spent on certain subjects from this age (arbitrary) to this age?

 

Because in my experience, dc who are homeschooled generally have completed academically by the 8th grade what most ps high schoolers have completed by the end of 10th grade. And they test that way.

 

Look at all the posts here where people ask if they can put high school level subjects done in 7th and 8th grade on their high school transcripts. If these kids are doing high school level work, then change their GRADE level and instead of calling it 7th grade....call it 9th grade / instead of 8th grade....call it 10th grade. It's just so subjective! I realize that most people don't want to change grade levels because of age, and that can be a maturity issue....but that isn't an academic issue. And many, many dc, especially young men, are ready to go forth and conquer earlier than the ages legislated by the educrats.

 

When my ds was offered full-time status at the cc, he was tested and he tested higher than those coming from ps graduated status. So.....yes. He had completed what was considered a minimum high school education (actually in his case he was considered more than minimum and thus received academic scholarships) as he tested that way. Just because he hadn't wasted all of his teen years at 'high school' or completing what someone, somewhere abstractly decided was 'high school' didn't mean he didn't have the academic education to be 'graduated' and to be successful in college. Keeping him at home for 2-3 more years would have been a waste of time and pointless.

 

Now if a dc is truly not academically ready, that is a different story; they need more minimum education. But, just to say 'you can't graduate because you haven't finished what "I" (or someone else) think you should have finished' seems rather selfish of me if the college has tested that child and says that by their standard said child *is* indeed ready. Kwim?

Edited by Katia
Ack! Typos. Typing is not my forte.
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He is currently in 7th grade, but we are researching high school options. Our local community college was extremely accomodating to homeschool children when I spoke to them today.

 

I am not considering doing full time cc classes as early as 14, but maybe trickling them in until he is comfortable with that type of class, and then pursuing it more fully at 16. They told me that this would enable him to get dual credits and yes, get an Associates at the end.

 

What is the downside to the student? We are trying to think up all negatives to this, and other than missing the typical high school experience/friends of common age/etc. we are having a hard time coming up with the downs.

 

The local private Catholic high school we are strongly considering will be $6k per year. The Associates/highschool cc route will cost approx. $4400 in toto. They are both approx. the same distance away and we would be saving $20K - it just seems amazing to me.

 

My son is totally excited about the prospect. Says, "Wow, I could graduate in 4 years with my masters!!" Husband, however, had a great h.s. experience and worries about the nostalgia of those high school years/experiences he may miss.

 

Anyone with experience here that can give pros/cons? What about qualifying for financial aid, etc., I have heard that could possibly be affected. Thanks for the read.

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So the counselor at the cc is meeting w/ds and I going over our options. She says, among other options, that I can "graduate" ds. He's 14, in 9th grade! I can sign a paper saying he's graduated and he can begin taking cc classes. He could go full or part time, get financial aid that he wouldn't have to pay back, and if he place into remedial classes he could take pre-algbra or algebra to then be served where he is now (see my other post for the math issue that started all this).

 

As a homeschooled high schooler he has to place into at least college math and reading/writing. He got all but the math. This way, she explains, he could take the classes at exactly the level he needs, begin getting college credit early, and get financial aid. Ds is practically out of his chair with excitement. I am calmly asking how could this be, skipping high school? What are the possible advantages/disadvantages?

 

She says is could be a disadvantage having a 16 year old student with an associates deciding which university he will move to. Yeah!

 

We were told if interested (ds was totally interested!!!) to go to the welcome center to find out what constitutes graduating from a homeschool high school.

 

The young lady at the desk said her mom simply wrote a letter stating she was finished with high school and she began full time at 15.

 

My dd's boyfriend started CC in 11th grade, and when his high school peers were graduating from high school, he graduated with a associate's degree--and then started at the university as a junior.

 

Problem for me--I want to be sure my kids get a great education that is well-rounded. I don't want them to get just a cc education in high school, BUT...sometimes I wonder. My dd is BORED at college. They do not cover anything that we did not cover in those basic requirement classes.

 

Sigh.

Jean

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BUT...sometimes I wonder. My dd is BORED at college. They do not cover anything that we did not cover in those basic requirement classes

 

Yes, many times the CC can be the same as high school, so it begs the question, why not just do it one (CC while age 16 17) and start as a junior at 18?

 

I'm sure there are many reasons why one should not do CC as 11th/12th grades. I'm just saying, it depends on priorities, what one would do in high school anyway, goals, priorities, etc. ;)

 

:seeya:

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I've been a part-time CC professor for ten year now, and just about anyone CAN register for CC classes, but not just anyone SHOULD take CC classes. Philosophically, I'm all for giving people a chance, but frankly I have students in my classes every semester that probably shouldn't be there for various reasons. Some are in their 50's, some are traditional 18-20 y.o.'s, and some are dual-enrolled 15 y.o.'s. Sometimes they're just not focused enough, sometimes they're missing basic skills, and sometime frankly they may not truly be college material no matter how much help they get. The level of screening that a CC does to eliminate students is very, very basic.

 

So if an advisor says that you can enroll in CC that young, that doesn't mean that you should. Every kid is different, and different families have different goals. I personally would start a kid that young with one class and see how it goes before I'd lock-stock-and-barrel turn them over to the CC. Homeschooling is about flexibility, and I wouldn't lock into something where grades truly "count" until I was more sure.

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I've been a part-time CC professor for ten year now, and just about anyone CAN register for CC classes, but not just anyone SHOULD take CC classes. Philosophically, I'm all for giving people a chance, but frankly I have students in my classes every semester that probably shouldn't be there for various reasons. Some are in their 50's, some are traditional 18-20 y.o.'s, and some are dual-enrolled 15 y.o.'s. Sometimes they're just not focused enough, sometimes they're missing basic skills, and sometime frankly they may not truly be college material no matter how much help they get. The level of screening that a CC does to eliminate students is very, very basic.

 

So if an advisor says that you can enroll in CC that young, that doesn't mean that you should. Every kid is different, and different families have different goals. I personally would start a kid that young with one class and see how it goes before I'd lock-stock-and-barrel turn them over to the CC. Homeschooling is about flexibility, and I wouldn't lock into something where grades truly "count" until I was more sure.

 

:iagree:This is my plan and opinion. My oldest boy (14) is chomping at the bit to grow up and move out. (hurts my feelings but I understand - I was the same way and so was my dh) We've been looking online at colleges and careers and such and it is a HUGE, HUGE, incentive to him to get ahead of the game and to go forth and conquer.:) He is really working very hard this year because we're sort of reaching a point where he can see a purpose to it. BUT he's a boy full of energy and impatience and impulse. So we'll take a course or two to see how the goals match up with his maturity when we get to that point.

 

I have no plans to enroll him before the 2nd half of 9th grade, maybe start of 10th grade.

 

Maturity aside, I don't feel he is ready at 14 to handle that level of adult conversation and understanding a good instructor will want in their classroom.

 

The most important thing to me at this stage is that his first experience with college be positive and encouraging. I do not want to set him up for failure in some way and then have to deal with a kid that doesn't want to go to college because they feel they can't handle it.

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don't feel he is ready at 14 to handle that level of adult conversation .............will want in their classroom.

 

Many times distance-Ed is an option.

Internet courses, email courses, independent study courses, recorded lectures (used to be called telecourses), etc.

 

:seeya:

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