Which Produces a Better Reader?

[momofabcd]

I know there have been many discussions about the various Orton/Gillingham inspired methods, ie SWR, Spalding, AAS, The Phonics Road, etc, to teach reading and spelling, and lots of people like programs like Abeka, Phonics Pathways, MFW who teach reading with beginning blends. Then there's the old Webster's Speller that has gotten a lot of attention lately. Now, from the looks of it, Webster taught all the sounds similar to Orton/Gillingham method, but taught beginning reading through syllabary similar to Abeka, PP, MFW, but better IMO because he taught the vowels as open syllables with their long sounds (ba, be, bi, bo, bu, by) and closed syllables with their short sounds (ab, eb, ib, ob, ub) where as the others teach short vowel sounds first with those open syllables then on to cvc words. So, which produces a better reader, or should I say a more competent reader, in the long run?:confused:

[Lovedtodeath]

They all work. :) I was taught in PS and ended up a very competent reader.

 

I do not like the beginning blends method of Abeka.

 

Your description of Websters sounds great.

 

We used MFW and OPGTR with DD, but went through it very quickly, similar to what you would get with the phonics road.

[Ellie]

All phonics methods will work in the long run. Some children just respond better to one than to another. And I'm talking about *true* phonics, not sight reading with some phonics thrown in for good measure.

 

Not that I'm the least bit opinionated at all. :D

[ElizabethB]

I've used just about all of those!

 

Any good phonics program that teaches all the major sound-spelling correspondences with few sight words, a child will learn to read.

 

However, Webster's Speller produces a higher grade level reader at a younger age than most phonics programs which do not do much work with multi-syllable words. Children seem to figure them out later on their own if taught with regular phonics programs, but they can learn to read them at a young age if taught with Webster's Speller.

[hsmom]

All phonics methods will work in the long run. Some children just respond better to one than to another. And I'm talking about *true* phonics, not sight reading with some phonics thrown in for good measure.

 

Not that I'm the least bit opinionated at all. :D

 

What would be your example of of "true" phonics program? (sorry for highjacking here!;))

[PeterPan]

Well, you had my head swirling with all your analysis, hehe... They all work sooner or later. If you're using say a grade leveled phonics approach, then you have the limitations it places on the student in terms of what it introduces when. For me, when I went to teach my dd to read, I was less concerned about her learning to read (which everyone here has accomplished, it WILL happen, hehe) than I was about have a cohesive bridge from the way I taught phonics to how I was going to eventually teach spelling. It made no sense to me to teach phonics using one set of explanations (of which there are many, as you've found!) and a totally different set of rules/explanations for spelling. I went with SWR, because I wanted that continuity of phonics and spelling. It worked very well for us and resulted in my dd reading quite well. I have no clue if she would have read as well with another method. I think some kids would read well with any method, and some kids do in fact do better with one method than they would have with another. SWR worked so well for her and resulted in such good reading skills that I intend to use it to teach my new little one as well, if that means anything.

 

I suggest you also consider teachability and the learning style of your dc. If I had a particularly wiggly child, I'd have no hesitation to use Happy Phonics or something similar that worked with that. If I had a dc who would benefit from the tiles, I'd use AAS. The approach is only part of the issue. I know that's not a comforting answer. I think you'll be fine, whatever you do. Stress about something more important, like how you're going to get the dishes done. :)

[Pongo]

I think as long at the child is getting phonics instruction consistently, it probably doesn't matter much.

My 3 kiddos are VERY different, 1 gifted dd, 1 ds that had YEARS of speech therapy, 1 right-brained dd. I taught them with SWR they all read extremely well, above grade level with great comprehension skills. They all have wonderful handwriting and get frequent compliments on it. I am a stickler with LA, we do it consistently no matter what:D

[Ellie]

True phonics would include Spalding and its lookalikes, Alpha Phonics, Phonics Pathways, 100 EZ Lessons, SSRW, OPGT...dang, can't remember the letters, lol. Rod and Staff Publishers and the other Anabaptist publishers rely heavily on sight reading, with some phonics thrown in. Modern Curriculum Press's Plaid Phonics also has some sight reading.

 

This is not to say that some children *can't* learn to read with the sight-reading methods, but phonics has proven to be effective in a way that sight reading never has. A good resource for understanding phonics vs sight reading is Why Johnny Still Can't Read.

[Lovedtodeath]

Orton-Gillingham is the original phonics... the precurser to Spalding. Spalding's manual is WRTR.

[SonshineLearner]

I've seen Spalding used (with my brother about 23 years ago, when he was 7) and I'm kinda using it with my son. He's wiggly and jumps up and down on the couch while practicing his phonograms. He's as squirmy and wiggly as you can get, and it's fine. We go through the cursive phonograms from the program "Cursive First", which I've laminated, and then through the Spalding/Writing Road to Reading manuscript/phonograms. I'm loosely using the WRTR program and will bump up our sessions to more of a full program, when he starts to show an interest in reading.

Carrie:-)

[momofabcd]

Well, you had my head swirling with all your analysis, hehe... I think you'll be fine, whatever you do. Stress about something more important, like how you're going to get the dishes done. :)

 

My head was swirling just writing the post.:ack2: Believe me, I'm not too stressed, just a little overwhelmed with my options. I have a 10 year old dd that I taught to read with MFW (homeschooled through 2nd grade and is now in classical christian school 4th grade thriving) and an 8 year old ds who learned to read in the christian school with BJUP (which is phoney phonics IMO). I also have a 4 year old dd and a 1 year old dd.

I am pulling the 8 year old out of school because his reading is lagging behind and causing him frustration in all subjects. They switched over to a Classical approach last year, when he was in 2nd grade, then they barely covered phonics with only half of a year of the Spectrum workbooks . So he's really only had a hodge podge of phonics instruction. This year, 3rd grade, the only phonics is in their spelling program Phonetic Zoo, which he isn't really getting much out of. I really don't think he has had a strong foundation layed, and that is why I believe he is falling behind. I'm looking for the best option to get him up to speed, while also thinking of my eager 4 year old for future use.

I don't believe MFW was thorough enough, although I loved the biblical emphasis, and her little bible notebook is priceless. So, that's out of the question for 4 year old.

These are the two options I'm pondering for LA to finish off the year plus however long it takes. I just don't know which route to go:

1. Webster's Speller(for reading only) and AAS, FLL 3 w/ WWE 2, reading books from Sonlight list.

or

2. The Phonics Road from square one. I know, it's expensive, but I like that it's all laid out for me and all inclusive. It seems to be a pretty good deal when looking at it from a complete LA standpoint, and money's not a factor at this point.

 

As you can see. I'm in a quandry, and I wanted to see your responses.

Thanks,

Deena

Edited January 19, 2009 by momofabcd

[ElizabethB]

I am pulling the 8 year old out of school because his reading is lagging behind and causing him frustration in all subjects. They switched over to a Classical approach last year, when he was in 2nd grade, then they barely covered phonics with only half of a year of the Spectrum workbooks . So he's really only had a hodge podge of phonics instruction. This year, 3rd grade, the only phonics is in their spelling program Phonetic Zoo, which he isn't really getting much out of. I really don't think he has had a strong foundation layed, and that is why I believe he is falling behind. I'm looking for the best option to get him up to speed, while also thinking of my eager 4 year old for future use.

I don't believe MFW was thorough enough, although I loved the biblical emphasis, and her little bible notebook is priceless. So, that's out of the question for 4 year old.

These are the two options I'm pondering for LA to finish off the year plus however long it takes. I just don't know which route to go:

1. Webster's Speller and AAS, FLL 3 w/ WWE 2, reading books from Sonlight list.

or

2. The Phonics Road from square one. I know, it's expensive, but I like that it's all laid out for me and all inclusive. It seems to be a pretty good deal when looking at it from a complete LA standpoint, and money's not a factor at this point.

 

As you can see. I'm in a quandry, and I wanted to see your responses.

Thanks,

Deena

 

My online phonics lessons are designed for people just like your 8 year old. They are for a remedial student, and they teach using the book of Romans. I'd start with those, then do option 1. The phonics lesson movies are linked below. After watching through the movies with him, you'll know enough syllables to teach Webster's Speller easily. They are comprehensive and Biblical. I'd follow them with my spelling movies as a review. (They use the book of James.)

 

Spelling Lessons:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Spelling/spellinglessonsl.html

 

You also need to play my phonics concentration game with him, he'll need some nonsense words. Your other children can play, too.

 

Here's my game link and my general recommendations for a remedial student:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/remedialstudents.html

 

Good Luck! If you need any additional help, send me a message. I've been tutoring remedial students since 1994.

[Lovedtodeath]

You also need to play my phonics concentration game with him, he'll need some nonsense words. Your other children can play, too.

 

:iagree:I had to do nonsense words with DD. She was relying on sight too much when I used actual words.

 

The Phonics Road sounds dreamy for a complete LA program, but I don't think I would use it for remediation. I would use the money to buy up all the levels of AAS.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[PeterPan]

Deena, I see your plight! I have no familiarity with the Webster Speller to comment. I've tried WRTR, SWR, and Phonics Road. Unless you really want the video component of PR, I'd suggest going with either WRTR or SWR. SWR is valuable for the dictation sentences of the Wise Guide and all the helps it offers, but WRTR has a great price point. Either one would remediate your ds's situation quickly and effectively. Even working through a popular phonics guide (OPGTR or the ETC books) would probably do the trick, though I haven't used them myself. As you say, you just need to do something. SWR/WRTR would definitely do it. PR is a lot of money, and I don't see how it's particularly better, unless you really NEED that video component for the time saved or something. It doesn't include any of the extras SWR does (enrichment activities, dictation sentences, etc.), and it's a ton of money. Besides, with PR you have to start at the beginning and work through all her (expensive) levels. That's not the most cost effective way to remediate, that's for sure. You want something more efficient. With SWR you can give a diagnostic test, place him where he belongs, and move forward. That way he's being challenged properly but still filling in his holes of understanding. That's what I would do.

 

As far as PR being a complete LA program, well complete is all relative. It contains what that author thought constitutes a complete LA course for that particular age level. If your dc is older or asynchronous (advanced in some ways, average or slow in others), it might not be a good fit at all. And like I said, it's not at all a cost-effective way to remediate, yuck. You can get into WRTR for just $17 from amazon. Nuts, it should be at your local library so you can try it for free! Start there, see if you even like the method, then you can decide whether to buy it, move on to SWR, or what. Free is good. :)

Edited January 19, 2009 by OhElizabeth

[Lovedtodeath]

I got WRTR at the library. Looking it over along with my spelling program has helped me to implement OPGTR in a better way. I made copies of the phonogram cards from WRTR.

[Honey Bee]

If you join the yahoo group for SWR, there are some really good comparisons of programs including The Phonics Road (Its a particularly though review which is great!) That review is what sold me on PR, which I am now using with my kinder son. I had bought SWR and the works, but after reading the book and rereading the book and reading messages on the Yahoo group and reading "how to get started" downloads from the Yahoo group, I gave it up. I still look back at it, secretly comparing it to Phonics Road, but I am glad that I choose Phonics Road. Some people seem to understand and pick SWR up easier than others. (i'm even a ps teacher!) For me SWR was just too unorganized, not necessarily the Wise Guide, but the SWR book which explains everything. I will say that Phonics Road requires you to watch a DVD, which I do with my children, and I take notes, which is good for me. Barbara Beers really knows her stuff and has written an excellent curriculum. I'm really glad I choose it.

 

I will admit, I just went through a "grass is greener on the other side" stage with my language arts and math curriculums. After some prayers and research, I think I have choosen just the right programs for my kids and will not change anything this year, and not much next year as far as those subjects are concerned.

 

Thanks for letting me share our families experience! Hope you can find a tidbit of help.

[momofabcd]

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to reply. First, thank you all for all your good advice.

I decided to go with my option #1, and am glad I did. Although, I'm still tempted by the Phonics Road.

ElizabethB - Your website is so valuable and full of such great information. I decided not to take him through your lessons, but to just begin in the syllabary of Webster's. Right in lesson one, I realized that he didn't even know the c says (s) before e,i,&y. We have spent the last week on the syllabary, doing two lessons/day. He is doing great, and catching on quickly. I chose go get a white board, like you, to work the lessons with him, and he really likes that aspect. Each day before I work on the syllabary with him, I drill him on the AAS phonograms. He has almost mastered the 1st 26. Phonograms like O & Y threw him for a loop with 4 sounds each, but he's catching on. I also just received WWE 2 and FLL 3 in the mail, yesterday. They look gentle, but complete, and right up his ally. He is used to the rigor of Shurley and IEW from private school, so this should be a nice break for him.

I'm excited to see his progress a few months from now. I'm really glad we made the decision to bring him home.

Deena

[ElizabethB]

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to reply. F

ElizabethB - Your website is so valuable and full of such great information. I decided not to take him through your lessons, but to just begin in the syllabary of Webster's. Right in lesson one, I realized that he didn't even know the c says (s) before e,i,&y. We have spent the last week on the syllabary, doing two lessons/day. He is doing great, and catching on quickly. I chose go get a white board, like you, to work the lessons with him, and he really likes that aspect. Each day before I work on the syllabary with him, I drill him on the AAS phonograms. He has almost mastered the 1st 26. Phonograms like O & Y threw him for a loop with 4 sounds each, but he's catching on. I also just received WWE 2 and FLL 3 in the mail, yesterday. They look gentle, but complete, and right up his ally. He is used to the rigor of Shurley and IEW from private school, so this should be a nice break for him.

I'm excited to see his progress a few months from now. I'm really glad we made the decision to bring him home.

Deena

 

That's great! I'm exited to see his progress a few months from now, too! I just started using Webster's Speller with my remedial students this past fall and have been very pleased with the results.

 

Between AAS and Webster, he should be reading great soon, it sounds like you're doing a very thorough job.

 

Working on the syllabary in isolation really does let you see what they don't know, like the c before i, e, and y that you mentioned. The more isolated and explicit that you can make your instruction, the better. It also sounds like your AAS teaching is very isolated and explicit.