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Secular middle school physical science?


MamaSheep
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Hi! I'm new here. I'm on a quest to find some materials for next year for my soon-to-be 12 year old son. While we are a religious family we strongly prefer secular materials for science. We enjoyed the R.E.A.L. Science Life Science (Level I) a couple of years ago, but they haven't produced their level 2 physical science course yet, so that's a no-go. I pieced together Earth Science from various books and some "Science in a Nutshell" kits, but that was a LOT of work, and I'm kind of hoping to find something much more grab-and-go for next year. I'll pull up my bootstraps and hodge-podge it again if I have to, but just the thought makes me cringe right now. Cost is a factor as well. Any suggestions? (I'll be having this same panic about high school science in a couple of years, I can tell already, so if anyone can point me in a good direction for that it'd be appreciated also.)

 

I have found some promising-looking items, but can't always find enough information about them to make me feel comfortable tossing down the kind of money they're talking about, only to discover that there's something about it that makes it unsuitable. But here's what I'm considering so far:

 

Prentice Hall, Glencoe, Holt -- All three of these publishers seem to have a good reputation for textbooks. But their web sites don't give much information about how the books are organized or which of their resources are really necessary. Do I need a teacher manual? What about a lab book? And all their CD resources and whatnot ($$$!)...do I need those?

 

Oak Meadows -- I've emailed them with my questions, so I won't bother you with them, but has anyone here used their 8th grade physical science? I'd love to hear about your experiences with it.

 

Rainbow Science -- I have heard this is a secular program, but some statements on their website make me a little leery.

 

Singapore Science -- We don't do well with workbooks (my son is an Aspie and sees workbooks as busywork, to which he is profoundly allergic)

 

Apologia -- This seems to be the homeschool gold standard, and I hear such good things about it, but we perfer to teach science and religion separately, so I'm not wild about the idea of using a text that blends the two as much as I gather this series does. But there is something very tempting about a tried-and-true homeschooler-oriented series where we can just start at the beginning, go through to the end, and stop...sigh.

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Hi! I'm new here. I'm on a quest to find some materials for next year for my soon-to-be 12 year old son. While we are a religious family we strongly prefer secular materials for science. We enjoyed the R.E.A.L. Science Life Science (Level I) a couple of years ago, but they haven't produced their level 2 physical science course yet, so that's a no-go. I pieced together Earth Science from various books and some "Science in a Nutshell" kits, but that was a LOT of work, and I'm kind of hoping to find something much more grab-and-go for next year. I'll pull up my bootstraps and hodge-podge it again if I have to, but just the thought makes me cringe right now. Cost is a factor as well. Any suggestions? (I'll be having this same panic about high school science in a couple of years, I can tell already, so if anyone can point me in a good direction for that it'd be appreciated also.)

 

I have found some promising-looking items, but can't always find enough information about them to make me feel comfortable tossing down the kind of money they're talking about, only to discover that there's something about it that makes it unsuitable. But here's what I'm considering so far:

 

Prentice Hall, Glencoe, Holt -- All three of these publishers seem to have a good reputation for textbooks. But their web sites don't give much information about how the books are organized or which of their resources are really necessary. Do I need a teacher manual? What about a lab book? And all their CD resources and whatnot ($$$!)...do I need those?

 

Oak Meadows -- I've emailed them with my questions, so I won't bother you with them, but has anyone here used their 8th grade physical science? I'd love to hear about your experiences with it.

 

Rainbow Science -- I have heard this is a secular program, but some statements on their website make me a little leery.

 

Singapore Science -- We don't do well with workbooks (my son is an Aspie and sees workbooks as busywork, to which he is profoundly allergic)

 

Apologia -- This seems to be the homeschool gold standard, and I hear such good things about it, but we perfer to teach science and religion separately, so I'm not wild about the idea of using a text that blends the two as much as I gather this series does. But there is something very tempting about a tried-and-true homeschooler-oriented series where we can just start at the beginning, go through to the end, and stop...sigh.

 

Rainbow is not secular by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Singapore, in the middle years, isn't workbook driven. And what workbook work there is is higher order thinking. (You might try to entice him by saying, "We'll give it a try, but it might be too hard." That would be enough to lay down the gauntlet for my somewhere-on-the-spectrum kid. And frankly, it might BE too hard. It was too much work for me to stay ahead of the game with Singapore middle.)

 

Oak Meadow just didn't excite me. It left me all "meh."

 

I'm not much help, I'm afraid, but that's my 2 cents on the above programs.

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Rainbow is not secular by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Singapore, in the middle years, isn't workbook driven. And what workbook work there is is higher order thinking. (You might try to entice him by saying, "We'll give it a try, but it might be too hard." That would be enough to lay down the gauntlet for my somewhere-on-the-spectrum kid. And frankly, it might BE too hard. It was too much work for me to stay ahead of the game with Singapore middle.)

 

Oak Meadow just didn't excite me. It left me all "meh."

 

I'm not much help, I'm afraid, but that's my 2 cents on the above programs.

 

FYI,

 

Actually, the Physics and Chemistry portion of the Rainbow are largely secular. The Life Science portion is definately is written from a pro-creationist perspective.

Edited by Stacy in NJ
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FYI,

 

Actually, the Physics and Chemistry portion of the Rainbow are largely secular. The Life Science portion is definately is written from a pro-creationist perspective.

 

I know that this is how many people see it, but I had a hard time reading it that way. Different perspective, maybe? I was hopeful because of recommendations here, and I bought it and used it, but I was not pleased.

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Several of us on the boards use Prentice Hall Science Explorer. I buy the student text, teachers text, and guided reading and study workbook. Many do not buy the teachers text, but I need it for answers to the section assessments and chapter tests.

 

I buy new from the PH, but many buy used on Amazon (at least the student text). There website is a mess, but customer service at the 800 number is great. Call and order a catalog.

 

I have a sample of the workbook. Email me if you would like it.

 

If you do a search you will find many threads about SE:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28347&highlight=science+explorer

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43062&highlight=science+explorer

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31231&highlight=science+explorer

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539&highlight=science+explorer

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Rainbow is not secular by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Singapore, in the middle years, isn't workbook driven. And what workbook work there is is higher order thinking. (You might try to entice him by saying, "We'll give it a try, but it might be too hard." That would be enough to lay down the gauntlet for my somewhere-on-the-spectrum kid. And frankly, it might BE too hard. It was too much work for me to stay ahead of the game with Singapore middle.)

 

Oak Meadow just didn't excite me. It left me all "meh."

 

I'm not much help, I'm afraid, but that's my 2 cents on the above programs.

 

Thanks, this is good input. From looking at the samples I wondered if OM might have a bit of a "meh" factor going.

 

You're right about laying down the gauntlet. It's becoming very effective in math lately. (Which is so NICE because when we started this two and a half years ago the very sight of a math book sent him screaming under the table in full-blown panic-attack meltdown mode, sometimes armed with a sharp pencil. It made me so mad because before I sent him to school he LOVED playing with numbers, and when he started K he could add and subtract big numbers, was beginning to multiply, and was fascinated with the concepts of infinity and negative numbers. Grrr...)

 

Anyway, that might help with the workbook side of things, but I'm not sure I want to take on that particular battle, if you know what I mean. Something heavy on reading and discussion with a manageable amount of hands-on and a little bit of writing that is low on Mom-prep...and secular...and....

 

Ok, I know I'm living in a dream world here...lol.

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I know that this is how many people see it, but I had a hard time reading it that way. Different perspective, maybe? I was hopeful because of recommendations here, and I bought it and used it, but I was not pleased.

 

Oh I'm so confused! (sorry)

 

Were you displeased because:

 

a) You were hopeful that it was secular other than the life science portions, but it turned out to have religious themes throughout, or

 

b) You were hopeful that the life science portions would be presented from a religious perspective, but it turned out that they were secular after all, despite recommendations to the contrary?

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Several of us on the boards use Prentice Hall Science Explorer. I buy the student text, teachers text, and guided reading and study workbook. Many do not buy the teachers text, but I need it for answers to the section assessments and chapter tests.

 

I buy new from the PH, but many buy used on Amazon (at least the student text). There website is a mess, but customer service at the 800 number is great. Call and order a catalog.

 

I have a sample of the workbook. Email me if you would like it.

 

If you do a search you will find many threads about SE:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28347&highlight=science+explorer

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43062&highlight=science+explorer

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31231&highlight=science+explorer

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539&highlight=science+explorer

 

Thanks! I will definitely check out those threads and do a search. One thing about Science Explorer, which I'm definitely leaning toward, is that I'm not exactly sure how it's set up. Would you be willing to tell me a little about the basic format? For example, does it have a chapter to read followed by questions, with one lab activity per chapter? Or...?

 

Speaking of lab activities, are they reasonably easy to do, and how costly do the materials tend to be?

 

Or...probably I should just read the threads before I annoy you with questions that have already been asked and answered...

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Oh I'm so confused! (sorry)

 

Were you displeased because:

 

a) You were hopeful that it was secular other than the life science portions, but it turned out to have religious themes throughout, or

 

b) You were hopeful that the life science portions would be presented from a religious perspective, but it turned out that they were secular after all, despite recommendations to the contrary?

 

No, it was recommended as a fairly neutral resource. And it was not. The fact that we did the Life Science part first perhaps colored how I read the rest. But I felt mocked by what I perceived as some subtle sarcasm in the text to the point that it soured me on the rest of it. And a paper to the teacher that was enclosed in the book definitely caught me off guard, and I can't even remember what it said, LOL! It's been four years since I used it. So I may have been predisposed to reading the rest with a too-judgmental eye, but that was my perspective.

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We are using Conceptual Physical Science-Explorations. It's put out by Pearson and so far it has been pretty good. Before buying a bunch of stuff for it from Pearson, I got a cheap copy of the textbook used to review. K12 also has a physical science course.

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No, it was recommended as a fairly neutral resource. And it was not. The fact that we did the Life Science part first perhaps colored how I read the rest. But I felt mocked by what I perceived as some subtle sarcasm in the text to the point that it soured me on the rest of it. And a paper to the teacher that was enclosed in the book definitely caught me off guard, and I can't even remember what it said, LOL! It's been four years since I used it. So I may have been predisposed to reading the rest with a too-judgmental eye, but that was my perspective.

 

Thanks, this is good to know. That would probably bother me too. All of the people who have recommended it to me as a secular resource have been strongly religious, and based on some other recommendations I suspect they sometimes read over things that would stand out to me.

 

I happen to be strongly religious too, but having been raised by a scientist, I'm almost as picky about getting science right as I am about getting religious doctrine right, and I find that religious science materials seem to irritate me in both directions. So I like to address them separately, and then discuss how they interrelate.

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We are using Conceptual Physical Science-Explorations. It's put out by Pearson and so far it has been pretty good. Before buying a bunch of stuff for it from Pearson, I got a cheap copy of the textbook used to review. K12 also has a physical science course.

 

Ok, I found this one but the place I'm reading about it says its a college level text. Do you think it would work for a 12 year old?

 

I like the idea of K12, but I think I'm going to have to find a less expensive solution this year. There's an outside chance we could actually do this for free through our school district, and if that's the case I'll jump on it. But last year when I inquired about their K12 there were some complications to us signing up for it, which is a long story. We'll be working with a different set of people this year, and the program will be a year older, and we'll see, but I think I'm probably on my own with a small budget.

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We use Prentice-Hall, and so far we like it. I only bought the student book. I feel the answers to questions and quizzes are easily found in the text.

 

Each book focuses narrowly on one topic (as opposed to one enormous book that covers many topics). We are working through the Human Biology book right now. Each chapter is devoted to one part of the body. The pages have large blocks of text with tons of pictures, diagrams, and side text boxes that give activity suggestions. Many of the activity suggestions are quick and simple (five minutes at most) and others are more of an extended experiment. Most of the activity suggestions are activities, but each chapter does also include interesting writing assignments (for example, writing about what a physical therapist does or pretending to be a news reporter writing about a major discovery). Since we are terrible at experiments at my house but love writing this has worked well for dd and I. Every couple pages there are review questions and assignments. At the end of the chapter there is a longish review, as well as a page of standardized test prep (questions on the chapter in standardized test format). I use those end review pages as our test.

 

I too found the website to be atrocious. I didn't have a very good experience with the customer service either, though I only dealt with them once. I ended up asking my local Borders to order the book--they allow customers to look at the book with no obligation to purchase. I looked at it and liked it, and bought it.

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We use Prentice-Hall, and so far we like it. I only bought the student book. I feel the answers to questions and quizzes are easily found in the text.

 

Each book focuses narrowly on one topic (as opposed to one enormous book that covers many topics). We are working through the Human Biology book right now. Each chapter is devoted to one part of the body. The pages have large blocks of text with tons of pictures, diagrams, and side text boxes that give activity suggestions. Many of the activity suggestions are quick and simple (five minutes at most) and others are more of an extended experiment. Most of the activity suggestions are activities, but each chapter does also include interesting writing assignments (for example, writing about what a physical therapist does or pretending to be a news reporter writing about a major discovery). Since we are terrible at experiments at my house but love writing this has worked well for dd and I. Every couple pages there are review questions and assignments. At the end of the chapter there is a longish review, as well as a page of standardized test prep (questions on the chapter in standardized test format). I use those end review pages as our test.

 

Thanks. This is good info!

 

I too found the website to be atrocious. I didn't have a very good experience with the customer service either, though I only dealt with them once. I ended up asking my local Borders to order the book--they allow customers to look at the book with no obligation to purchase. I looked at it and liked it, and bought it.

 

And this is an excellent idea! I was just thinking maybe I'd order one of the Explorer books for $18 and then get the rest of the physical sciences books if I liked it, instead of buying the Physical Science bundled book. But this might be a better option.

Edited by MamaSheep
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I'm not religious and use only secular material. I've used the physics section and am planning on using the chemistry section next year. I won't be using the life science portion. So far, I've found no religious overtones in the first two sections. Since you're only looking for physical, Rainbow is probably overkill.

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I'm not religious and use only secular material. I've used the physics section and am planning on using the chemistry section next year. I won't be using the life science portion. So far, I've found no religious overtones in the first two sections. Since you're only looking for physical, Rainbow is probably overkill.

 

You know, Stacy, I thought that was your situation. I've actually discussed this with other people who said that same as you. So, you know, take my recollections with a big ol' grain of salt! :-)

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The Explorations book is supposedly a 9th-10th grade level text. I am using it with my 12yo with no problems. Here's a link:

 

http://www.pearsonschool.com/index.cfm?locator=PSZ4Z4&PMDbSiteId=2781&PMDbSolutionId=6724&PMDbSubSolutionId=6732&PMDbCategoryId=811&PMDbProgramId=22950&level=4&prognav=pt

 

Thanks, that does look intriguing.

 

It wants a promo code before it'll tell me pricing. Any idea what it runs new?

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I'm not religious and use only secular material. I've used the physics section and am planning on using the chemistry section next year. I won't be using the life science portion. So far, I've found no religious overtones in the first two sections. Since you're only looking for physical, Rainbow is probably overkill.

 

Hmm....that puts me back to wondering again...lol. But I'm always grateful for a second opinion, thanks for chiming in!

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They are certainly making things difficult over there at Pearson! First they redesigned the website so that it is difficult to browse and now they aren't even putting the prices up! Grrr. Anyway, I went to my Oasis account (with Pearson, it's another way to search for books and it actually has prices) and I couldn't find the edition I am using (I bought it 6 months ago) but I found that a new edition is coming out at the end of January. That one was $83. Then I looked on Amazon and found that what I think is my edition is selling for $80 or so. They also had lots of used copies for much less (some were like $2). The new edition might be good. We have found some typos and mistakes in the edition we have.

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They are certainly making things difficult over there at Pearson! First they redesigned the website so that it is difficult to browse and now they aren't even putting the prices up! Grrr. Anyway, I went to my Oasis account (with Pearson, it's another way to search for books and it actually has prices) and I couldn't find the edition I am using (I bought it 6 months ago) but I found that a new edition is coming out at the end of January. That one was $83. Then I looked on Amazon and found that what I think is my edition is selling for $80 or so. They also had lots of used copies for much less (some were like $2). The new edition might be good. We have found some typos and mistakes in the edition we have.

 

Thanks so much for looking that up for me!

 

I have much to think about.

 

(P.S. I was just skimming your blog. Your boys are adorable!)

Edited by MamaSheep
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Here's something else to explore: Power Basics Science program. We used their package for Earth-Space Science and I've also looked over their Biology books. Totally secular. Rainbow Resource does carry it so if you want to take an online peak, you can do it there. I would add that these are totally black & white textbooks.

 

I do use Singapore's 'O' Level Chemistry in 7th grade, and it is close to being high school level. Nice colorful pictures, short chapters, few summary MCQ at the end of each chapter.

 

For 8th grade I use Hewitt's Conceptual Physics

 

High school I turned to a college textbook for 9th grade biology, stuck my DS#1 into an AP Biology course for 10th, AP Chemistry for 11th and next year plan to have him run to the CC for Physics. I do not know what I'm going to do for DS#2 who is not interested in Science. I do know that he will NOT do Apologia for any courses. We do not mix religion and science here either.

 

Carole

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Here's something else to explore: Power Basics Science program. We used their package for Earth-Space Science and I've also looked over their Biology books. Totally secular. Rainbow Resource does carry it so if you want to take an online peak, you can do it there. I would add that these are totally black & white textbooks.

 

I do use Singapore's 'O' Level Chemistry in 7th grade, and it is close to being high school level. Nice colorful pictures, short chapters, few summary MCQ at the end of each chapter.

 

For 8th grade I use Hewitt's Conceptual Physics

 

High school I turned to a college textbook for 9th grade biology, stuck my DS#1 into an AP Biology course for 10th, AP Chemistry for 11th and next year plan to have him run to the CC for Physics. I do not know what I'm going to do for DS#2 who is not interested in Science. I do know that he will NOT do Apologia for any courses. We do not mix religion and science here either.

 

Carole

 

Thanks! I'll check into those also.

 

For Singapore, do you get all the books, including the practical and workbook, as well as the textbook and teacher edition? Or do you just use the text without the supplements?

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Thanks! I'll check into those also.

 

For Singapore, do you get all the books, including the practical and workbook, as well as the textbook and teacher edition? Or do you just use the text without the supplements?

 

We have the Practical --- waste since we do not have a lab with hoods.... we cannot do the experiments listed in them. Maybe this would be different for Physics or Biology but for Chemistry the Practical is not practical for HS'ers.

 

We have the Workbook --- if your ds doesn't like workbooks then I'd avoid them. I wish we used them more however we just don't have time. They have worksheets---answer questions, word puzzles, define words, write formulas..... worksheets of all sorts to fill out..... My focus with Chemistry is to read and understand the textbook, and do experiments. I do have my DS outline the chapters, write down important terminology with definitions,.... For experiments we use Smithsonian 5000 MicroChem set. I understand this is no longer available for sale however I really love it. The experiments really reinforce what we are learning in the textbook.

 

I have the TM/answer key. Very helpful.

 

Carole

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Sue also answered some of my questions last summer about this very topic. Dont even try to get on their website (OK, try!). It was so difficult to to figure out with all the textbooks, workbooks, and single topic readers. We gave up and are half way through RS4K.

This is a really good program, but our oldest needs something more challenging for next yr.

I too would like something meaty with a book and workbooks (my kids like 'em). I would also LOVE a program which can be used (or tweaked) for all my kids ( 11,9,7, and 5). Just an idea, but, you can always buy experiments (all inclusive) from homesciencetools.com. We are going to get a new microscope with slides for our biology study in a few months:lol:!

Still interested in any info!:001_smile:

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You might want to check out Glencoe physical science. At their textbook support site they have quizzes and games for each section of the textbook. These are under study central. They also have online chapter tests. The textbooks have mini-labs in the chapters. They also have a home-lab section in the back of the book. So you could get by with just the textbook. Also, if you choose an older text, say 2005, they are widely available on Amazon. There are workbooks available online as well, but you aren't interested in those. Physical science has links to Brain Pop movies as well. HTH

 

Jennifer

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We have the Practical --- waste since we do not have a lab with hoods.... we cannot do the experiments listed in them. Maybe this would be different for Physics or Biology but for Chemistry the Practical is not practical for HS'ers.

 

We have the Workbook --- if your ds doesn't like workbooks then I'd avoid them. I wish we used them more however we just don't have time. They have worksheets---answer questions, word puzzles, define words, write formulas..... worksheets of all sorts to fill out..... My focus with Chemistry is to read and understand the textbook, and do experiments. I do have my DS outline the chapters, write down important terminology with definitions,.... For experiments we use Smithsonian 5000 MicroChem set. I understand this is no longer available for sale however I really love it. The experiments really reinforce what we are learning in the textbook.

 

I have the TM/answer key. Very helpful.

 

Carole

 

Thank you! I wondered about how practical the labs would be. Especially for chemistry, at home. Maybe I'll have to put up another post later when I have some of the "spine" issues resolved a bit more and ask people what they use for chemistry set. One thing at a time, though...sigh.

 

Sue also answered some of my questions last summer about this very topic. Dont even try to get on their website (OK, try!). It was so difficult to to figure out with all the textbooks, workbooks, and single topic readers. We gave up and are half way through RS4K.

This is a really good program, but our oldest needs something more challenging for next yr.

I too would like something meaty with a book and workbooks (my kids like 'em). I would also LOVE a program which can be used (or tweaked) for all my kids ( 11,9,7, and 5). Just an idea, but, you can always buy experiments (all inclusive) from homesciencetools.com. We are going to get a new microscope with slides for our biology study in a few months:lol:!

Still interested in any info!:001_smile:

 

I had looked at the RS4K stuff, and thought it was a pity I didn't start homeschooling this child earlier, but I think he needs something a bit meatier. Also, it didn't look like it was long enough to last us a year, and we've already done a life science course. I don't want to do another one until biology. Bummer. I'm pretty sure I have homesciencetools.com bookmarked, and I will definitely do some digging there. Thanks for the recommendation. It's always nice to know what companies people have had good experiences with, because then I feel less like I'm shooting in the dark ordering from some small company on the internet.

 

You might want to check out Glencoe physical science. At their textbook support site they have quizzes and games for each section of the textbook. These are under study central. They also have online chapter tests. The textbooks have mini-labs in the chapters. They also have a home-lab section in the back of the book. So you could get by with just the textbook. Also, if you choose an older text, say 2005, they are widely available on Amazon. There are workbooks available online as well, but you aren't interested in those. Physical science has links to Brain Pop movies as well. HTH

 

Jennifer

 

Y'know...I was looking at that again last night. I was having a hard time figuring out what all their program components were, and were for, and whether I would need to buy them to have a decent class. I saw that they have some great online stuff that coordinates with their books, and that would be right up my son's alley. The Brain Pop movies, especially. But their interactive science timeline is also very cool.

 

Do you use these? Would I need the teacher edition?

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No, I'm sorry. I don't use these. I don't usually post about things I don't use. I just found these resources on Glencoe's website though, and I'm very excited about them. I did a quick search on Amazon. The student edition of Intro to Physical Science 2004 is around $20. The teacher wraparound is around $6. I haven't seen that one. I looked at the straight Physical Science text. It was the one with the home and mini-labs. I was considering it for my dd. I am going to be using the world geography and cultures for her next year. She likes workbooks, so I'll get her the active note-taking guide for it. Then I'll have her do the chapter tests online for her grade. (After the test is scored, there is an option to have it e-mailed to the teacher. I tried that and it gave me the entire test and her answers--not just her score. So I'll have a hard copy.) I won't get any teacher's editions unless I find I need them. I'll just glance through her workbook to see if she's on track. HTH

 

Jennifer

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